Are you suggesting that a kid going to private school is harmful to the rest of society?

well the eton mafia seem to be having a good go. 😉

If you think education costs a lot then you should consider the cost of ignorance.

Do the maths on the opposite – then revert. The answer will have poor ducks spinning for ever. But if you guys want Scottish kids to suffer, it’s your choice.

Seems the wrong way round to me.
The real question should have been – why the hell are we charging state school business rates?
Genuine question – are business rates chargable on law courts, local government buildings etc?

Anyway business rates are small beer to the whole equation. Eton saves £500,000 in business rate being a charity – thats £384 per student and they have some of the most impressive and extensive buildings and grounds of any school and that’s in a part of the country of particularly high business rates. It’s the VAT that makes a difference – to the tune of about £6K a year per pupil on the school fee.

Do the maths on the opposite

I suspect that this is not possible otherwise you would have shown your working to make your argument.

Even ignoring your inaccurate figures, what is the logic behind your suggestion that private schools should receive the same level of government funding as state schools?

Little details tha Danny can avoid but big ones for those who actually care about education.

Excellent – you’re getting sweaty about this one – must mean I’m right.

Oh, and you said “education” when you actually meant “elitism”.

Teamhavermuch is talking about political dogma while previously telling us the SNP aren’t a left wing party…And then sends his poor child to fail in the education system he is so critical of. 😀
I think the common theme is “SNP” But maybe I should be so grateful that a privately educated home counties banker (sp) takes SUCH and interest in our wee corner of Northern Britain.

well the eton mafia seem to be having a good go.

Joking aside though is this all a bit of politics of envy. Elite will always exist, those who appear to have more than others.

Stick everyone in state schools and an ‘elite’ will continue to prevail and envy will still exist. In fact the ‘elite’ kids will be richer as their parents were not shelling out £1,000’s per year in school fees.

Which brings me on to if you take kids out of private education, where do you magically get money to pay for them in state education? Plus the benefit private education brings to the economy ie Premium car brands/posh clothing

I’d be quite happy for a reduction in my tax to cater for the fact I don’t use a state place. I also pay more tax now as well. of course, how dare i earn decent money and try and provide a better learning experience for my child.

^^ if you add up all the subsidies they are better funded by the taxpayer than local authority schools (source: Nick Davies ‘School Report’) and if the boarding school near me is anything to go by, those benefits frequently accrue to wealthy overseas students.

teamhurtmore – Member
Do the maths on the opposite – then revert. The answer will have poor ducks spinning for ever. But if you guys want Scottish kids to suffer, it’s your choice.

Oh, ……….!

What’s the missing word?

Someone help me, I think it’s something that hangs between a bull’s hind legs.

I’m amazed that THM doesn’t support the principle that in these times of Austerity the better off should not be dependent on the public purse, or to be more succinct, No Welfare for the Wealthy.

Tut, tut Danny. None of that racist talk. Careful you will have the posse all over you now.

Don’t worry ducks. He won’t fail, his family prioritise education above most things. And don’t forget one of the consequences of local policies is that he is in a Uni where Scots are a minority. They are the ones you SHOULD be worried about if you value your country. Don’t leave that to us…

No Welfare for the Wealthy.

Oh am I missing a big handout ?

In times of austerity a government has got to be bloody stupid to increase its burden by forcing more children in to state education. There is no logic, apart from the politics of envy

I don’t even know the numbers in private education but I do know that our local state school couldn’t physically cope with an influx of children

@aracer – It was rhetorical point rather than an actual assertion that it should be the case.

If the parents weren’t paying for their child’s education the LEA would be, therefore every pupil in private is a subsidy to the LEA from the paying parent.

I’m not actually suggesting that the LEA pays the private school, however I don’t see the reduction of rates for an educational establish meant as a massive problem. Certainly less of a travesty than many of the Academies asset stripping state schools and then dissolving the trust or absorbing those assets into executive salaries.

Joking aside though is this all a bit of politics of envy.

Others would call it social justice.

I wouldn’t be surprised if you’ve never even considered what those words might mean though.

I guess Funky you’ll be hoping your son gets the benefit of basic spelling, punctuation and grammar. Also, by the way, ‘austerity’ is not an era, it is a (failed) policy.

Plus the benefit private education brings to the economy ie Premium car brands/posh clothing

Oh, I went to a Comprehensive, I’d better sell my “premium German car” and stop buying “posh clothing”. Good to know how I’m viewed. Thanks.

While we batter around whether it’s £4K, £6K, £17K or whatever number you care to pick, shall we also remember that 20% of private school entrants are from overseas so they’re not “saving us” a state school place.

Some might suggest that “charitable” exemptions subsidising the education of the offspring of foreign oligarchs isn’t the best use of taxpayers’ money.

What is the social injustice that is happening?

I call it politics of envy because politicians are using it as a way to win votes/stay in favour. The rich are an easy target.

If you transact it financially it would not benefit the public purse as more kids in private education would transfer to state.

The rich are an easy target.

Not half as easy as the poor

So will it be a significant cost to Scottish Private Schools? Enough to encourage some Scottish parents to send their kids to board at English Provate Schools? If so I can think of at least two struggling private schools that could actually be saved by this.

The rich are an easy target.

Lol. No the disabled, disadvantaged and the poor are.

Isn’t quoting the phrase ‘The Politics of Envy’ the same as accusing someone of being ‘like Hitler’, when it comes to framing your argument, and in how seriously we should all need to take the rest of your opinions?

the Nationalist party that is addicted to self national harm

Like the Tories then?

What is the social injustice that is happening?

Really?

*insert lost for words/facepalm/boggled meme of choice*

The rich are an easy target.

Dry your eyes princess.

You’ll be telling us £100k salary doesn’t make you rich next…

I call it politics of envy because politicians are using it as a way to win votes/stay in favour. The rich are an easy target.

What would be just would be to bring those “tax efficient” facilities into the public realm and use them to raise every child’s education.

What would be just would be to bring those “tax efficient” facilities into the public realm and use them to raise every child’s education.

That would be the logical approach rather than taking away a benefit that then incurs more cost.

Unfortunately though it would mean another government department loosing money, so the easy win is to look good to voters but not worry about the long term damage (increased cost to public finances)

Chakaping – go on 2nd time of asking now. What social injustice is there of me sending my child to private school ?

Chakaping – go on 2nd time of asking now. What social injustice is there of me sending my child to private school ?

If you wish to pay a business to educate your child, that’s your decision. I’d rather that the government doesn’t subsidise it though.

It’s an inelegant fudge. The rules will now be: “If you’re a charity you get an automatic 80% reduction in business rates unless you are an educational charity that is not a university”

If they don’t (for whatever political reasons) want private schools to get the benefits of being a charity why don’t they just change the rules on who can be a charity?

My Mrs works as an unqualified teacher in a local private school. If she was full time she’d be on £20k more than me as a state school teacher at the top of the pay scale

[quote]
I thought the lowest pay scale in teaching was £22,467 rising to £33,160 after 6 years ?!?[/quote]

It might be I’m on 38k ish she is on 32k ish working 3 days a week in the private school…ok 20k more may be stretchi g it its more like 17 or 18

Does this help?
or this?

I’m an avowed SNP hater, but this is a good thing. Churches should be next (where they are basically inward looking tax free clubs that dont provide a reasonable benefit to society).

However the SNPs dismal record on education generally (plus the “free” university education that makes tuition free by robbing the grant budget from poorer students which stops them taking advantage) make me think that this is another squirrel! policy to distract from the lack of progress (or surplus of regress :0) they have made on pretty much every educational front while being in power for 10 years.

Ransos – and I agree with you. However the fact is that right now the state system can not cope with and influx of children. The only argument I have made in this thread is that it is illogical at the moment and more of a vote winner

If you wish to pay a business to educate your child, that’s your decision. I’d rather that the government doesn’t subsidise it though.

I think that sums up the position for me too. Sadly any debate about private education (on here or anywhere else) seems to have to be binary – take your side and private schools should be allowed to operate as they wish and take a load of tax advantage for themselves and their customers* or alternatively they are utterly evil and should be banned. I exaggerate but there’s not so many who are comfortable with the concept of the existing but would like some of the charitable advantages to be either removed, or alternatively, properly justified**

*I might come back to this one later if there’s time.

**The regulators have had an ‘interesting’ time over the last few years with the independent education sector meeting the “public benefit” test. Not, I must say, in every case.

Ransos – and I agree with you. However the fact is that right now the state system can not cope with and influx of children.

I don’t think there’s any likelihood of the entire private school cohort suddenly wanting state education, is there?

I exaggerate but there’s not so many who are comfortable with the concept of the existing but would like some of the charitable advantages to be either removed, or alternatively, properly justified**

In a similar vein, I loathe the idea of public money being given to church schools, who then set admission criteria to exclude most of their local population. If you want a church school, fine, but pay for it yourselves.

Will only create more pressure on the state system. Counter productive as the SNP will see.

I don’t think there’s any likelihood of the entire private school cohort suddenly wanting state education, is there?

I don’t we are suggesting the entire peivate sector school population would move but even 5 or 10% would put on substantial extra pressure and remember if you can afford private school fees you can afford to move right into the heart of the best state schools catchment areas.

People sending their kids to private school are doing the state an economic favour, paying taxes for school places they are not using.

However the fact is that right now the state system can not cope with and influx of children.

Heres a mad, leftfield thought for you – maybe if the rich and privileged didn’t opt out of the state system en masse, and thus have little interest in its functioning, it just might

I know….. bonkers, eh?

People sending their kids to private school are doing the state an economic favour, paying taxes for school places they are not using.

Apart, of course, from the 20% from overseas, who aren’t.