Please explain Veganism to me . . .

Cougar – Moderator

How does pouring gravy on food make someone a “nutter” ?

Would you eat a burger I’d urinated on? That’s exactly how it feels to me when someone tips meat juices all over my food.

I’ve had people pour gravy on my food too, but never felt the need to refer to them as “nutters”.
And being coeliac, I don’t eat gravy as it’s likely to contain wheat flour and therefore gluten.
So I’ve got a fair understanding of restricted diets.
And first hand experience of the problems involved when it goes wrong.
But I still can’t see how it’s the same as whipping your todger out and pissing on someone’s food.

What’s inherently wrong with Shergar and chips for tea?

IMO nothing but if you’re lying about what type of animal it is what else are you lying about (is it actually fit for consumption?) Was going to try horse while staying self catering in France but the girl I was with at the time was a bit queasy about it.
Mind you I made the mistake of trying tripe while there, bleurgh!

I’ve had people pour gravy on my food too, but never felt the need to refer to them as “nutters”.

Serious? If I walked over and poured bread sauce on your plate knowing you were coeliac you’d think that was reasonable?

As above I know veges who eat a lot of eggs and have never considered how many chickens die to produce those eggs. But it seems pointing out stuff like that is deemed as borderline bullying or something.

Facts like this exist so that vegans can be realy really smug

We then getting on to talking about how many males calves die for milk

Monsters these veggies

I can’t come up with a reason for this being unethical, except for the historical actions of settlers killing all the bears, wolves, coyotes and lions.

Well you noticed the unethical point without my help. Reintroduce the prey or live with the consequences
I object to eating it as it is not necessary

I don’t want either to suffer, but at the same time I find it very hard to get upset about them dying.

This is what they say about you as well
I admire your honesty this is the crux as meat eaters dont really care or not enough to stop eating it.

I don’t think sentience is a measure of wether or not it’s ethical. It’s to do with the emotional complexity of a creature,

Philosophically sentience is the ability to feel or perceive – technically called qualia – rather than to reason/think. By any definition animals perceive and can suffer. What you want to do with this is your choice but they are clearly sentient

‘loum it was used colloquially as i am sure you know insert arsehole. inconsiderate oaf, **** whatever you deem fit for a person who deliberately pours meat gravy on a vegetarian dish

Mtrs JY is a coeliac imagine the joys of trying to get vegan and gluten free when eating out

I’ve had people pour gravy on my food too, but never felt the need to refer to them as “nutters”.

It’s all about intent; I doubt – or at least, I’d hope – that someone didn’t intentionally spike your food knowing that it could make you ill. “Nutter” is probably the wrong word (it wasn’t one I chose) but intentionally spoiling someone’s food isn’t a very nice thing to do.

But I still can’t see how it’s the same as whipping your todger out and pissing on someone’s food.

I didn’t say it was the same, I was trying to explain how it feels to me to have my food contaminated by people who think that rolling veggieburgers around in meat juices is the height of sophisticated hillarity, by using an example that might provoke the same response in people who aren’t me.

And I’m not suggesting whipping my todger out in public, do you think I’m some sort of animal? I carry a pre-filled bottle around for such purposes instead.

If I walked over and poured bread sauce on your plate knowing you were coeliac

Not that I’m condoning any such behaviour but Coeliac is an illness whilst veganism/vegetarianism is a choice.
The issue about the alleged horse being sold as beef is not about eating horse – but about the provenance was the meat actually safe for human consumption etc…

I’m idly wondering what trolls feed on

Billy Goats ‘cos they’re environmentally conscious and have to eat them ‘cos of all the veggies eating goat’s cheese & spinach dishes 😆

IMO nothing but if you’re lying about what type of animal it is what else are you lying about (is it actually fit for consumption?)

Granted, that’s a very good point.

Cougar – Moderator

Assuming a proficient hunter who never misses a kill shot, of course. How many end up wounded and bleeding for hours, I wonder?

when i was a kid, my friends dead was into his hunting, he took us with him a few times. A single ‘shot’ could take hours of prep and waiting (bit boring for a 12yr old if i’m honest). After a clean shot, i’ve seen the animal simply fall over. They aim for the chest, not head (the life-stopping regions of a deer’s head are relatively small, so easy to miss).

looking back, for ‘Dad’ it was little more than deer-watching with a telescope that just happened to have a rifle bolted underneath.

things might be different now, deer are a lot more common (and a bit more of a pest tbh) But back then, care was taken not to shoot deer that were young/healthy/of breeding age/unknown. my friend’s dad nearly knew ‘his’ deer by name.

what happened when they missed? i don’t know, i never saw it happen (only went out a few times). but i saw lots of care being taken to reduce the chances.

(not close enough? – no shot. animal seems flighty? likely to move suddenly? – no shot. not standing side-on? – no shot. etc.)

for me, kfc comes with waaay more emotional baggage than hunted venison.

and it’s the childless, not the vegetarians, who are more likely to save the planet.

Hands up who has kids?

where on earth does that say

So as well as abortions, having kids is also not compatible with vegetarianism?

?

Not that I’m condoning any such behaviour but Coeliac is an illness whilst veganism/vegetarianism is a choice.

… you assume. Regardless, what difference does it make? Is it the behaviour of a ‘nutter’ to spike someone’s food with something they can’t eat, but perfectly acceptable to do it to someone who’s merely made a choice not to?

Maybe I should pop round to my Asian neighbours with a home-made curry later, and not tell them it’s pork dansak. I’m sure they’d all sit round and have a good laugh about it afterwards. It’s only a choice, it’s not like they’re allergic to it or anything.

Well you noticed the unethical point without my help. Reintroduce the prey or live with the consequences

The (arguably) unethical actions were hundreds of years ago. So you can’t include that in the debate as to what happens this hunting season. Unless you consider it unethical that no humans have been killed by wolves in Wisconsin this year.

We are where we are. It’s your actions now that are important.

back then, care was taken not to shoot deer that were young/healthy/of breeding age/unknown. my friend’s dad nearly knew ‘his’ deer by name.

Cool. I wonder how typical that was / still is? I suppose there’s a world of difference between a trained, experienced hunter and some redneck in the US wilderness with crate of Bud and a shotgun collection.

you assume. Regardless,

don’t think you can choose to have coeliac’s lol

Hush, adults are talking.

you can claim to have it and it not be true though

You might want to look at the medical rates of it and the claimed rates. it seems popular almost like a fad diet these days

why would you want to claim you have it, thats just weird.

Cougar – Moderator

Hush, adults are talking.

stop being a dick

Could you elaborate then on what you meant by: “But it seems pointing out stuff like that is deemed as borderline bullying or something.” Who’s deeming this? The people you told? I’d have thought that in the cases you describe they’d have been grateful?

Some people on here don’t seem very pleased when you point stuff like that out and accuse you of saying things you haven’t said. It’s happened several times now, sometimes in quite an angry way.

Maybe I should pop round to my Asian neighbours with a home-made curry later, and not tell them it’s pork dansak. I’m sure they’d all sit round and have a good laugh about it afterwards. It’s only a choice, it’s not like they’re allergic to it or anything.

Asians don’t eat pork?

you can claim to have it and it not be true though

Coeliacs aside, I’d hazard that the vast majority of people who claim to be gluten intolerant actually aren’t. The point I was making about assumptions, however, was referring to the assumption that everyone is vegetarian through choice.

Asians don’t eat pork?

Muslims don’t. Sorry, should’ve been more specific, assumed it’d be obvious what I meant.

Cougar – Moderator

Cool. I wonder how typical that was / still is?

when it comes to deer hunting, there’s still a huge amount of… dare i say, love? for the animal.

But, deer numbers have grown, this is widely acknowledged as causing a few problems, maybe there’s more pressure to kill significant numbers than when i was a kid.

cougar got their first so what he said

Cougar – Moderator

The point I was making about assumptions, however, was referring to the assumption that everyone is vegetarian through choice.

Genuine question, not STW passive-aggressive bullshit… Who’s vegetarian or vegan, not through choice?

Sorry, should’ve been more specific, assumed it’d be obvious what I meant.

Well it was I guess, just thought it was a little lazy, especially when you were calling other people out for making assumptions.

Sikhs do it from duty
Some religious orders- Buddhists

Still quite probably choice in the broadest sense but i guess it is debatable/arguable [ what isnt on here ?]

Not sure you can be allergic to meat tbh
GOOGLED

Alpha – gal[meat allergy] means no red meat but they can eat fish and chicken – so they could be adversely affected by the said gravy

All these are tenuous though

People who are told to be, by their parents or religion perhaps? That’s a bit wooly I know, but not everyone will have the freedom of choice.

I had a vegan friend who claimed she couldn’t actually eat animal products, said it made her ill and was off work with “cross contamination” every five minutes. How much of that was down to not actually eating properly I don’t know, though she did seem to have a balanced (if heavily restricted) diet. I have another mate who’s properly, violently ill to seafood and a number of other products, he’s not vegetarian but will tell restaurants he is sometimes to avoid being poisoned.

Anecdotal I know, I was really just saying that you don’t know why people are the way they are, I’m guessing there might be all manner of other reasons more complicated than “because they want to,” it seemed an oversimplification. Not really important in the grand scheme of things, I wish I’d never said it.

Some religious orders- Buddhists

I thought most Buddhists weren’t vegetarian these days? Some sort of retcon to say they don’t need to be if they’re spiritually pure in other areas, or some such? Or is that just certain – I don’t know the word sorry, streams / sects / variants?

</tangent>

Genuine question, not STW passive-aggressive bullshit… Who’s vegetarian or vegan, not through choice?

Most poor people in the world – they will eat very little meat because they can’t afford it, and killing your animals for meat is plain stupid when you can rear them for milk and eggs instead.

Many Hindus are vegetarian because of religious belief – we can debate “choice” in this context.

So we’re talking an awful lot of people…

Asians don’t eat pork?

I’ve met quite a few Indian Hindus that don’t either who were generally pretty secular in other ways so I don’t think it’s a hardcore thing.

Who’s vegetarian or vegan, not through choice?

Some very poor people in third world countries probably rarely get meat, but that probably doesn’t count because they’d eat it if it were there.

ransos – Member

Most poor people in the world – they will eat very little meat because they can’t afford it, and killing your animals for meat is plain stupid when you can rear them for milk and eggs instead.

That’s not vegetarian, that’s not having much meat. In the same way as just because I’m not getting any, doesn’t make me celibate.

That’s not vegetarian, that’s not having much meat. In the same way as just because I’m not getting any, doesn’t make me celibate.

You & me both mate! (but I did have a very nice chicken kiev from Weatherheads butchers in Pateley Bridge, for tea)

Just saw this nice bit of vegan trolling.
I really wish they hadn’t fallen for it, but it’s still pretty funny.
https://www.facebook.com/WhiteMooseCafe

afaict the cafe doesn’t actually exist, but hard to tell.

Please don’t think we’re all like that 🙂

In other news, maybe the vegans were right after all.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34615621

😀

afaict the cafe doesn’t actually exist,

Oh I really hope it does

Dear Guests,

If you sit down at a dirty table when there are plenty of cleared tables available, my staff are within their rights to give you a little, but firm, smack across the back of the head.

Many thanks,

Paul Stenson🙂 🙂 🙂

from reading it the café does exist it is an off shoot of his mum and dad’s hotel . But his anti vegan riff is a massive troll.