Owen Paterson #Torysleaze

It is very convenient to compare MP’s salaries to the 1%ers, when that is the section of society that policy has most benefited over recent decades, that section of society that has accelerated away from the normal life experience, while more and more people are left struggling from paycheck to paycheck or becoming part of the underclass that carries the burden of poverty.

It is no wonder so many MP’s believe that they should abuse their positions for personal gain, with impunity, if that is the only section of society they are benchmarked against.

it can be a 7 day a week job and the hours are both long, frustrating, and as we realised recently again; dangerous to one’s health.

for some. for others, its a hobby and a bit of pocket money…

The Tries have a baked in 1/3rd of the electorate that simply dont care how incompetent/corrupt they are

A police investigation into peerages cost millions last time & came up with nothing,

but it did taint Blair somewhat (even tho Tories were equally culpable)

The Cox thing is different he doesnt seem to have broken any rules, its absolutely farcical that he was being paid a fortune to work from the caribbean to defend the BVI against HMRC (whilst we were being told we must go back to work) and neglect his job as an MP , hes in such a safe seat though that not much will change

be interesting to see what it does to the Tories long term poll numbers

he doesn’t even bother campaigning.

Nor does mine, I may have had a leaflet in 2015 I think. But then to be fair, neither do any of the other parties locally.
We have never had anyone canvass on the doorstep in the 26 years we have lived here, for any election at any level.
He has a 24000 majority up from 20000 in 2015

Crabbe and Goyle

simply incorrect

No it isn’t TJ. Cash-for-honours is very much associated with New Labour/Tony Blair, whether you like it or not.

I can’t be arsed to read the last couple of pages but I see that binners has gone into one of his usual rants about “lefties”. So a couple of points….

Firstly I wasn’t passing judgement when I made the remark “that’s another idea Johnson has pinched from Labour”, it was more of an observation than anything else. I didn’t say whether I thought cash-for-honours was a bad thing or a good thing.

Obviously you won’t be surprised to hear that I am not impressed by the concept. But cash-for-honours is not very high on my criticism list of New Labour.

For me someone getting a seat in the House of Lords because they gave a political party a million quid is not any less acceptable than someone getting a seat in the House of Lords because they went to school with the Prime Minister, or because their great-great-grandad was a Duke, or because they are a Church of England Bishop.

In fact I think that giving someone a seat in the House of Lords because they have helped to finance a political party is as good as any other reason.

And as far as I know it isn’t even illegal, which presumably is why despite being investigated Tony Blair was never charged in relation to cash-for-honours.

If you think cash-for-honours is a problem then you don’t understand the problem.

Keir Starmer when he made his bid to become Leader of the Labour Party stood on a platform of the abolition of the House of Lords and its replacement with a fully democratic second house. Obviously he binned that committment as soon as he won the leadership election.

But that is exactly what is needed, a fully democratic second chamber. Ideally one which also fully represents the federal nature of a devolved UK, including English regions. Not some ridiculous hangover from a distant feudal age ffs.

Tinkering is not the solution, unless your aim is to maintain as much as possible undemocratic structures. Cash-for-honours bollocks is just one more distraction. The only solution is abolition.

Btw my apologies for making comments which might be interpreted as challenging the political purity of the echo chamber……. carry on slagging off the Tories and telling each other what a shower of **** they are. I know it means a lot to some people. No idea what it’s supposed to achieve though.

Cash for honours goes back to before the labour party existed. Yes Blair was in it up to his neck but it gores back way before him Wilson and the lavender list, Lloyd george and even James the 1st and 6th

But are they though? I’m sure there are plenty on here that earn more than an MP’s salary and a fair few that earn more than the Prime Ministers salary.

Oh really – what world do you live in?

I bet he’s right, from replies on this forum it’s clear there are plenty of wealthy members.

How senior do you need to be in London or the SE to earn more than an MP?

And as far as I know it isn’t even illegal, which presumably is why despite being investigated Tony Blair was never charged in relation to cash-for-honours.

It is illegal to sell a seat for cash. However its proving that it was a transaction that is the tricky part.

Getting back on topic: at what point does an ‘outside’ or ‘second’ job become the main Job?

I’m thinking what response anyone would get if they told their employer, as Geoffrey Cox did, that they’d be ****ing off to the Bahamas for a month and the stuff they’d be working on would be taking up pretty much all their time, but if their was anything that was really really important then they might be able to squeeze in a quick Zoom call?

… and if you could just keep paying my huge* salary in, as well as my expenses, that would be great.

Thanks

* I don’t care what you do, an MP’s salary (80 grand+) is an absolutely massive income to most people, including myself. Saying you need to supplement that (as Boris has done), in a society where loads of working people need to resort to food banks, is taking the ****ing piss! It just shows how utterly and completely detached from most peoples normality our political lords and masters now are.

How senior do you need to be in London or the SE to earn more than an MP?

Very top management levels in public service only No one bar a very few public servants. Medical consultants maybe if they get top merit awards.

Again this shows how divorced from reality some folk on here are about how wealthy they are

don’t care what you do, an MP’s salary (80 grand+) is an absolutely massive income to most people, including myself

On one level.

But given the actual shit/abuse and as we know much worse – that MPs have to deal with – personally I don’t think it’s worth the salary.

There are several lenses to view the way they are paid.

How senior do you need to be in London or the SE to earn more than an MP?

Newly qualified lawyer at City Law firm

newly qualified? Really?

I want my MPs doing it for public service not to enrich themselves. personally I think the salery too high.

An MP’s salary is astronomical to me but I bet it isn’t to many on here.

tj, I’ll bet there isn’t an executive role in the SE that offers less than an MP’s salary and there’ll be lots of add on’s and bonuses at that level as well.

Our current system of expenses and allowances are massively open to exploitation. Increasing MP’s salaries whilst removing extras would create transparency and make the job less attractive to wrong’uns whilst rewarding better and more suitable candidates, (no more wasting time filling out expenses for kit-kats and mucky movies.)

Paying ministers more whilst prohibiting them from taking a role within related industries for a period of 5 to 10 yearsis a something some other governments apply to mitigate against corruption and nest feathering.

newly qualified? Really?

Yep, some London offices of US firms are paying £150,000

EDIT: Oh by the way, the Lavender List was regarded as eccentric but historians don’t believe there was any question of financial impropriety

tj – suggest you spend 15 mins online to become better informed about public sector/servant salaries, including county councils.
There are many with salaries which dwarf johnson’s as PM.

Newly qualified lawyer at City Law firm

And what percentage of this countries population will ever come close to getting a sniff at that kind of career? And I wonder what background they would all come from? What schools they attended? Which universities they went to?

I personally think that our elected representatives should have at least some sort of financial connection to more than a tiny percentage of the people they claim to represent.

And some classic Boris – deflecting blame – ooh look at Geoffrey Cox but don’t look at me.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59221290
What a ****

Oh I do know frank – and I know how few folk get £80 000 Very few. In the NHS only top managers and some consultants. In councils maybe the top teir of management

I live in the real world where 80 000 pa is a huge salery in the top few % of the country and beyond the dreams of most – and remember they still get a house in London bought for them. they still employ family in non jobs on expenses and still enjoy huge perks like cheap booze

£150k pa no extra jobs no personal expenses.

I have a couple of friends who I know are earning more than an MP, ones a hospital consultant and the others an IT contractor- through him I know a couple of others probably on a similar salary.

This is a decent enough village in between Nottingham and Derby, but not one of the posh villages. Certainly not London kind of salaries.

Boris bus on the way to “pick up” Cox…

remember they still get a house in London bought for them

No they don’t

tj, you’re way off the mark and allowing your personal views to obscure the facts.

And some classic Boris – deflecting blame – ooh look at Geoffrey Cox but don’t look at me.

It appears that it was a direct response to Labour asking for an investigation into the matter :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59218438

Would it have been better if Johnson had simply ignored the issue?

There plenty to criticise Johnson for, and the Paterson shenanigans is an excellent example. The problem with frivolous unjustified criticism is that whilst it might be hugely satisfying to call Johnson a **** every time he moves it actually undermines serious criticism.

I have a couple of friends who I know are earning more than an MP, ones a hospital consultant and the others an IT contractor- through him I know a couple of others probably on a similar salary

A couple? And that’s the point. What percentage of the population are on £80k+. A tiny percentage. So for MP’s to be on that, as well as their incredibly generous bonuses and pensions is not even remotely representative of 99%+ of their constituents

It’s instructive that they use the -1% as their benchmark

And then there’s the elephant in the room .. that so many of them are obviously such complete imbeciles that they wouldn’t last 5 minutes in a ‘proper’ job

Imagine interviewing for an 80 grand a year job and Mark Francois or Richard Burgon rocking up?

Is this because Johnsons still pissed at Cox because he advised proroguation wasnt ilegal?

(even tho Cox was a brexiteer)

tj, you’re way off the mark and allowing your personal views to obscure the facts.

I am really not you know. Its you that completely fails to understand the reality here

go look at some stats. Average income is around 30 000. £80 000 pa put you in the top 1 or 2 % of the country

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-from-1-to-99-for-total-income-before-and-after-tax

Ids in the shit too

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/09/iain-duncan-smith-accused-of-brazen-conflict-of-interest-over-25000-job

And Cox could be in quite serious trouble after all

Wednesday’s front page @thetimeshttps://t.co/Vq9cSY4AHl#tomorrowspaperstoday pic.twitter.com/UxpgmhKB6h

— Henry Zeffman (@hzeffman) November 9, 2021

@tjagain

I want my MPs doing it for public service not to enrich themselves. personally I think the salery too high.

Interestingly my gut feel is its a lot of money for what some of them do, and on the other hand probably fair for the best of the bunch. Do you want more of the good ones or more of those who are only in it to jump up some political ladder or milk it for the pension at the end?

Here’s a test though TJ. Will you come back out of retirement – for £80K + expenses for the next five years, to traipse up and down from Edinburgh to London, meet constituents in the evening, get dragged to every crappy local paper photo opp, wearing a suit pretending you are delighted to be handing out the certificates of excellence at school prize giving, then coming back to an inbox full of people moaning about stuff you voted against anyway.

I’m not sure I would.

I wouldn’t come out of retirement but ten years ago – like a shot. I’d be made for life with the amount of money and I do like a bit of public service

I wouldn’t come out of retirement but ten years ago – like a shot

How about the House of Lords then? Sounds ideal for a retired gentleman…..no voters/constituents to bother you and I believe that if the proceedings become a tad boring you are allowed to nod off.

Plus you get £305 per day attendance allowance, plus travel expenses and subsidised restaurant facilities.

Somewhere warm and comfy to sit plus you get to trouser 305 quid per day….. what more could someone with a keen sense of public service and in their twilight years want?

Mind you since apparently you haven’t got a pot to piss in your best means of access is probably to get yourself ordained as an Anglican bishop.

“Imagine interviewing for an 80 grand a year job and Mark Francois or Richard Burgon rocking up?”

If the job wasn’t as open to corruption and exploitation and was more open to scrutiny Mark Fracois wouldn’t be interested.

As for monkey tennis guy, pay peanuts and you get monkeys.

See poly’s point. We need ot encourage better candidates to run for office, for whatever party. At the moment it only seems to attract crooks and duffers.

The salary is fine, remember they also get expenses, excellent pensions, money towards second homes, over 50% more if they are a cabinet minister, 15 weeks holiday, subsided food, beer, travel etc.. it should be well paid, but they should also treat it like a full time job.

There are plenty of decent people in this country working for much less or even free for community groups / charities.

15 weeks holiday,

I can assure you very few MPs have 15 weeks “off” as that statement suggests. Even the useless ones.

Local MP had in 19-20 claimed a tad over £250k in expenses. £170k in accommodation and staff (£143k). I was about to say I’d be his staff for half that but given its John Lamont (con) there’s not enough money in the world to make me spend time in the same room as the odious little twunt.

Python software engineer with a reasonable amount of experience will get more than £80k in London/se.

In fact I recently was involved in recruiting a python/aws engineer in the Ukraine (kyiv) for about that.