Owen Paterson #Torysleaze

Tbh I really don’t get why Johnson won’t reveal cost of goldsmith free holiday

Taking a free jolly off one of your rich mates that would cost more than a lot of families annual income isn’t a good luck even for someone as shameless as Johnson

Tbh I really don’t get why Johnson won’t reveal cost of goldsmith free holiday

“Cost” is not the right word (i’m in pedant mode here btw). The cost to Johnson was zero, that is the whole bloomin point. It also cost* [shadowy company apparently beneficially owned by Goldsmith/his family] virtually nothing (probably the cost of cleaning a few red wine stains etc.) to allow Boris to stay there, as they own it. They didn’t pay the rent to a third party on his behalf (in which case it would have been a cost to them).

This was the provision of a benefit-in-kind. According to the rules, benefits in kind must be disclosed and the disclosure must include the “value”(paras 7(a) and 9(d)). In the absence of any guidance about calculating the value, that would be interpreted as the market value I imagine. So it wouldn’t matter if Goldsmith said “The place wasn’t being rented out that week anyway, so it cost* me nothing”. If it was a slow part of the season, that would affect the market value of course.

*a benefit foregone, you might call it a “loss of income” is not a cost in strict terms, though often the word is used for that.

Although quite why Starmer and the Labour party aren’t making more of all of this escapes me.

You ought to be used to this now.

Starmer is playing the really really long game.

Except Labour are making use of it

Starmer was on Marr this morning

It's not a mistake.

It's corrupt, it's contemptible and it's not a one-off.#Marr pic.twitter.com/wVYol5qrCz

— Keir Starmer (@Keir_Starmer) November 7, 2021

And focusing on Moggs stupidity too

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/07/labour-calls-on-jacob-rees-mogg-to-resign-over-lobbying-row

Tony Blair’s special moment imo was when he decided that receiving a million quid was more important than the wider health considerations of the nation.

Indeed, hardly a shining moment. But then is there an estimate yet on what the chumocray have made out of Covid? I’m guessing it’s a bit more than a paltry million quid…

I mean do Tories really want to talk about politicians putting money ahead of public health right now?

So is this really the defence for Shagger and Co? “Look Labour did some naughty stuff two decades ago”, Does that mean we should accept this governments current behaviour?
Is that actually what you’re saying?

A reminder… Paterson was lining his own pockets, not bringing in funds for his party. I hate the way our political parties are funded, and the influences that funders then get over government policy. But an MP being paid half a million quid, to keep for themselves, to act for companies in parliament or when dealing with government, that’s a whole extra level of “who do our MPs work for?”

So is this really the defence for Shagger and Co? “Look Labour did some naughty stuff two decades ago”, Does that mean we should accept this governments current behaviour?

I want even aware the government had said it, I think only Ernie has

Has he given his £100k back yet? LOL

Love how having to resign is seen as the worst thing EVA. Wish I got caught trousering hundreds of thousands and got to walk away without anything more than a telling off.

Hell, if nanny was doing the telling off I’d throw her some of the £££s. Saucy scamp.

It looks like my MP, a Red Wall Tory, has called him c**t.

Red wall Tory tells Owen Paterson: ‘You’re a c***’

Harsh, but fair.

kelvin
Full Member

A reminder… Paterson was lining his own pockets, not bringing in funds for his party.

I’m not sure how that’s worse? You can make a pretty good argument for party corruption being worse than personal corruption, at least Paterson didn’t need to conspire with other people in power to make it work.

At the end of the day, how it undermines democracy is the big problem and I think it’s pretty certain that when parties practice corruption for their own gain that undermines democracy more than when individuals do. In this case, they managed to buy 1 MP. In other cases you can buy a government. (Of course you can sometimes buy an individual who’ll drive a whole government, like with NHS procurement scandals.)

I want even aware the government had said it, I think only Ernie has

Well I’m glad you said ‘think’ Kimbers, because the suggestion that I am claiming sleaze by the Tories is somehow justified by previous Labour sleaze is clearly ridiculous.

As ridiculous as pretending that in recent years cash-for-honours sleaze hasn’t been primarily associated with Labour.

And whilst on the subject of ridiculous another thing that is is the claim that the Tories rallied round Owen Paterson to save one of their own and a personal friend of Johnson.

Firstly the only loyalty Johnson feels is to himself. Secondly the Tory Party is utterly ruthless and if they had thought that it would be in their interest to hang Paterson out to dry they would have done precisely that.

The Tory Party is in fact so ruthless towards those it considers to be a liability that with little hesitation they sacked their greatest post-war heroine, and she was literally driven out of Downing Street crying, when it became obvious that her flagship policy had become an electoral liability.

There is a reason why Johnson and his fellow Tory MPs took the such high risk strategy as to attempt to protect Paterson. It was always going to be risky. And it came as no great surprise to me that the Daily Mail refused to back them, how the hell were they suppose sell that to their readers?

I didn’t watch Andrew Marr this morning but it would appear that Starmer has hit the nail on the head. It has bugger all to with “honour among thieves” or any other fanciful notion about Tory largess towards one of their own.

I have always said that what Johnson fears most is scrutiny, that was obvious imo when he was London Mayor. He hates scrutiny partly because there is very little substance to the geezer, and partly because he’s as dodgy as ****.

I see Johnson is unable to attend the debate this afternoon regarding  sleaze in his own party. He’s visiting the North East, and unlike last time when he had to hurry down to speak with Charles Moore, he won’t be hiring a helicopter, and apparently the train timetable, “doesn’t favour his attendance”  And neither will Jacob Rees Mogg…Even the Tories are beginning to realise that his particular brand of condescending toff is starting to wear thin.

Someone should sneak in and put a sack of horse dung where he’d sit.

On second thoughts, I’m not sure anyone would notice the difference.

I see Johnson is unable to attend the debate this afternoon regarding sleaze in his own party

For a man so bone idle he doesn’t half find some urgent, pressing things that need taking personal care of, as far from Westminster as possible, when the heat gets turned up

Which one of his human shields will be sent out in his place today, I wonder?

Moggs still whimpering in a corner somewhere, I reckon Raab is due for a Sweaty stand in

Johnson refusing to apologise for the paterson farce shoes hes not learning

Stephen Barclay apparently.

Yep, me neither.

Someone should sneak in and put a sack of horse dung where he’d sit.

George Eustice speaking in support of Owen Paterson yesterday. I wonder – who was Secretary of State at Defra when Georgie got his first ministerial post there…?

Oh its Barclay

Moggs still whimpering in a corner somewhere

Waiting for Nanny to come and tell the beastly rotters to go away.

Barclay isn’t on top of his own treasury brief so a lack of coherence and clarity from him is guaranteed.
He’s been volunteered for this.
Hopefully a little light evisceration.

If being on top of your brief is a prerequisite then you’re going to struggle to find anyone amongst this gang of Brexiteer dimwits

The plan is obviously to bore everyone into submission by putting up braclay

If recent TV performances are anything to go by, ie: Question Time, the plan seems to be to put up someone so spectacularly dim (they’ve a large demographic to choose from)that they haven’t got an actual clue what’s going on, and just burble a load of incomprehensible nonsense that nobody can make head nor tale of

Barclay isn’t quite in the Helen Whately or Theresa Coffey class, but he’s not far off

Hopefully a little light evisceration.

Also, as Barclay is a stand-in, Starmer, (assuming he’s now through his isolation) should send Angela Rayner into bat Handily, she’s far more effective at giving them a bollocking than he is!

both brilliant and disturbing in equal measure.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/08/boris-johnson-no-10-flat-renovation-watchdog

Boris Johnson’s spokesperson said there was no need for Stone to look into the matter as the No 10 flat was not connected to the prime minister’s role as an MP…

They are laughing at us.

^ that cartoon is disturbing…

I watched the debate in parliament this afternoon. Illuminating.
There were 46 Tory mp’s in the chamber. Out of 360. Shows the contempt many have for their constituents or just too embarrassed?
Of those Tories who spoke, I don’t think any were supportive of the govt. approach last Wednesday, although Bill Cash kept on interrupting on behalf of his friend Paterson to the extent even those on his side told him that he had made his point many many times and that he was still wrong.
At one point it was pointed out that Boris had arrived back in London at 5pm. The debate finished at just after 7.

Raab getting a grilling on R4. Good to see this story growing and almost all the papers sticking the boot in again today.

Just listened to Raab defending the indefensible. To summarise:

“Do you think it’s reasonable for MPs to be getting paid vast sums of money to represent private interests, while neglecting the job they’re meant to be doing?”

“We’ll that’s what people voted for, yes”

I paraphrase slightly, but only slightly

It’s an interesting tack to take. We’re totally corrupt, yes, but you must have known that when you voted for us.

Shows the contempt many have for their constituents or just too embarrassed?

Johnson is a man who think the rules don’t apply so runs away from a debate about whether the rules apply to him and his friends, thus proving that he thinks the rules shouldn’t apply to him/them.

I’ve scanned through the list of Tory’s “outraged” and “apoplectic” about scrutiny into their lives, and it’s exactly the people you assume have the most to lose. Geoffery Cox, Chris Grayling, Liam Fox…who votes for these idiots?

Tories are much more corrupt than labour. Remember most of these “second jobs” are actually bribes

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/09/at-least-a-quarter-of-tory-mps-have-second-jobs-earning-5m-a-year

ernie is a bit disingenuous with his blaming of labour for inventing “cash for peerages” – yes they did much earlier than Blair but the Tories did” cash for access” including bungs in brown envelopes and also cash to their mates and legalised corruption on a much larger scale

so while labours hands might not be clean its a tiny amount compared to the scale of the Tories corruption

Squirrel!

ernie is a bit disingenuous with his blaming of labour for inventing “cash for peerages”

And it is disingenuous of you to claim that I did.

In response to the claim of cash-for-honours I said “that’s another idea that Johnson has pinched from Labour”

What is wrong with that? It is very much the case that in the recent past cash-for-honours has been massively associated with New Labour.

Just do a search of the term “cash-for-honours” and Google will throw up a load of results linking cash-for-honours with New Labour.

Here is the Wikipedia entry on cash-for-honours :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash-for-Honours_scandal

I appreciate that me mentioning it has irritated New Labour apologists but it is disingenuous, to use your word, of them to deny it.

The perception of our resident lefties about relatively is quite something to behold

Labour are as bad as the Tories?

Jesus wept!

If their were league tables for corruption and cronyism then the present Tory party is a regular Champions League finalist and has just won the league title for the 10th year running

The Labour Party, on the other hand, is having a relegation scrap at the bottom of the Vanerama Conference League

Even Mandleson at his worst was mid-table third division

You lot really do need to get a ****ing grip!

What we’re seeing is the culmination of years of deliberate concentrations of power in a small group of an elite class of politician and business interests. This new group of Tories are just the latest version of a “born to rule” (in their heads) group who’ve managed to ride a wave of populism and got into power.

Corruption doesn’t have to wear a dictators uniform, in this country it’s also been money provided at just the right side of the rules, which are themselves drawn in such a manner as to be technically bendable to allow it.

The right wing press will actively tell you that you haven’t just seen the things you have, Bots will swamp social media with the chosen message (the one for the sleaze scandal is “Storm in a tea cup”) and conspiracy theories will flourish.

This is our lives now.

What is wrong with that? It is very much the case that in the recent past cash-for-honours has been massively associated with New Labour.

simply incorrect

Tories are much more corrupt than labour. Remember most of these “second jobs” are actually bribes

And how cheap are they ‘bought’?

Paterson gets £100k, Randox get’s a £470m contract.

The Tory Party gets £12k, Desmond saves £40-45m in taxes.

Wonder when all the rest will come out?

Read this and Raab will have you believe having a man on the inside is in the UK’s interests.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/09/raab-defends-geoffrey-cox-for-working-from-caribbean-in-lockdown

He (Raab) said: “It’s quite important that parliament, which is responsible residually for some areas of our relationship with the overseas territories, has got some knowledge of what’s going on in those territories … Actually being in touch and working with our overseas territory is quite important piece of the responsibilities in the UK and indeed our parliament.

Funny ****.