Osbourne says no to currency union.

The First Minister today said claims of cuts were “mythical”, pointing to plans passed in the Scottish Parliament this year that will see the overall health budget rise from £11.9bn to £12.7bn next year.

I’ve now had a chance to try and find a record of this and failing. I don’t suppose anybody knows how I might find this sort of thing? Because the only stuff I can find contradicts that:
http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/7366
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2012/09/7829/5
(admittedly the latter is quite old, and I presume the former has some bias?)

…found this whilst I was looking, which is quite interesting
http://bma.org.uk/-/media/files/pdfs/working%20for%20change/policy%20and%20lobbying/pa-bmascotlandpaperindependencereferendum-24-07-2014.pdf

Aracer – the published draft 2014/5 budget, page 25, is interesting

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0043/00433802.pdf

Survation-Scottish Daily Fail

NEW #indyref poll for Scottish Daily Mail:
Yes 44% (+2), No 48% (NC), Undecided 8% (-2) (Change since 11 September)

http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Scottish-Attitudes-Poll-Results.pdf

Aracer – the published draft 2014/5 budget, page 25, is interesting

Like the bit that says spending on sport will go from £203m this year, to £58m next year? Or have I misread that?

Curious mix of attitudes on tonight’s club hill run.

Surprised at just how serious and advanced some have prepared for a move out of Scotland in the event of a Yes, and a desire to leave driven by a stronger sense of Britishness than any other reason.

Certainly less sign of the confidence of Yes supporters displayed here or on Facebook. One even going so far as to suggest many will bottle it when it comes to ticking the box, which is don’t agree with tbh. I was really surprised at the long term proponent of independence and lifelong SNP supporter/member who’d never found time to get out and campaign….despite being retired.

Considerable difference to my Thursday night club, which is almost universally confident in Yes. I’m sure there’s a name for when people end up developing whatever attitude is prevalent in those around them.

brooess – Member
…As Jambalaya says, UK is still one of the world’s most democratic and wealthy countries…

Democratic? Aye, right…

Wealthy? Increasing debt isn’t wealth.

Like the bit that says spending on sport will go from £203m this year, to £58m next year? Or have I misread that?
[/quote]I’m completely guessing but has that got something to do with the Commonwealth Games expenditure these past 2/3 years?

Yes, I think you’re right. Breakdown is on page 31.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11100754/Revealed-Alex-Salmond-personally-pressurised-St-Andrews-University-head-over-independence-concerns.html

More embarrassment for Scotlands finest Uni – time to put one graduate in the bottle dungeon. Freedom anyone?

YS really are showing their true colours as it reaches a climax.

Amazing book to be written – the more he is exposed for what he is, the closer the vote. The ironies of modern politics.

They stated many times that they will not interfere in another countries business. This is because they don’t want anyone interfering in theirs, especially with reference to Catalonia.

Spain vetoing iScotland’s entry to the EU would not be interference with another country’s internal affairs: Spain has a vote on membership of an international organisation and it’s not interference to use it in a way that Nats wouldn’t like.

Having said that, I don’t think that Spain would actually veto iScotland’s membership, but I know even less about Spanish/Basque/Catalan politics than I do about Armenian, so…

athgray – Member
how are Scottish people actually being oppressed, right now? As distinct from anyone in England, Wales or NI?

Scotland isn’t being oppressed, it’s not about that, tbh it’s about the fact that England, Wales and NI are oppressed in the shape of prescription charges, education charges, and what looks like is going to be nhs charges eventually.

We want nothing to do with that. If you want to stop a yes vote, offer all these things to the rUK. The biggest fear of all is that over time, winstminster will eventually convince the people of scotland that we can’t afford these things.

I guarantee scotland would vote no on thursday if these things were offered across the board..

And don’t give me any crap that they aren’t affordable, they are, scotland gets roughly it’s fair share of uk money, you can argue about a few quid here or there, I don’t care, but it’s affordable in scotland, it should be affordable across the uk.

You talk about a fair society across Britain, stop taking the wrong side and join us, as the article says, England needs to start it’s own revolution, rather than agreeing with bean counters that pepper us with scare stories.

The fair ladies of Scotland have a heavy responsibility

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11100248/Scottish-independence-women-voters-could-save-the-Union.html

Good for you ladies – we might even let you into the R&A now!!!

Let’s be honest here: Yes = Street Parties, No = Friday…

I don’t think that Spain would actually veto iScotland’s membership, but I know even less about Spanish/Basque/Catalan politics than I do about Armenian, so…

The argument is that Spain prefers this to happen as it happened with the consent of the UK ie constitutionally. They think that by allowing a constitutional version they preclude the Catalans doing a vote/EU application unilaterally without Spanish.
There is little in it for Spain IMHO. I dont think it much affects The catalan issue myself. Do you think Catalan getting independence would “inspire” this vote or Wales to want it more?
Seems unlikely but also not massively well informed.

I guarantee scotland would vote no on thursday if these things were offered across the board..

😆 at the edit.

piemonster – Member
I guarantee scotland would vote no on thursday if these things were offered across the board..
at the edit.

aye, not quite what i ment! 🙂

Edited point stands though.

I thought you had arrived at Damascus!!! Still time yet….. 😉

Wealthy? Increasing debt isn’t wealth.

@epic pity 13 years of Labour government thought differently. From everything I have seen an independent Scotland will run up more debt on a relative basis than the UK. More Greek than Swiss.

Yes, I think you’re right. Breakdown is on page 31.

In fact it appears that other spending on sport gets a 50% boost now they’re not paying for the Commies. I guess a similar thing happened with the Olympics.

Scotland isn’t being oppressed, it’s not about that, tbh it’s about the fact that England, Wales and NI are oppressed in the shape of prescription charges, education charges, and what looks like is going to be nhs charges eventually.
We want nothing to do with that. If you want to stop a yes vote, offer all these things to the rUK. The biggest fear of all is that over time, winstminster will eventually convince the people of scotland that we can’t afford these things.

and voting Yes won’t guarantee any of these things. If the money runs out then charges will happen, you may get a change in government, again as the Yes campaign keep telling us this isn’t a vote for the SNP.

Bean counter alert!

I suppose you don’t need to count beans if you’ve been promised a big bag of magic beans…

so, to the Yessers, imagine you win the referendum. what does success for iScotland look like? if we revisit this thread in 1, 3 or 5 years after independence, what metrics will have had to have improved or what changes made so you think “that was all worthwhile”?

and, I suppose, to the Noers, what would iScotland have to achieve before you’d think “it turns out I was wrong and it was all worthwhile”?

You need a longer time frame than that KB.

If there is a Yes, I won’t celebrate it. When independence is gained, I won’t celebrate it. If in 10 years time, things are better. Then, and only then will I celebrate it. Anything else is premature or celebrating the wrong thing IMHO.

Rome wasn’t buil….. blah blah blah.

jambalaya – Member
“Wealthy? Increasing debt isn’t wealth.”

@epic pity 13 years of Labour government thought differently…

Agree. Labour and socialist ideologies need to get into the 21st century where we cannot depend on exploiting dusky skinned people in the colonies to top up our GDP.

Can’t cure the Tories, they’ll screw anyone. 🙂

Just think, in 24 hours the people of Scotland will be sovereign for the first time in history.

By 10pm the question will be – have they handed this on a plate to the likes of Cameron and his mates, or kept it?

Anyhow, I’m off oot. Patriotic nationalist duties etc. I’ll check back to see what you BritNats have been up to tonight. 🙂

(Nah, I don’t really think you’re BritNats.)

FWIW, I’m still deeply cynical that Yes will achieve much. Just not quite as cynical as I am of a No.

It’ll still involve negative elements of politics, it’ll still be an economy that favours those already with money.

I had an interesting chat with a guy last night. Both of us batting for the same Yes team.

He brought up a good point.
We both agreed that the long term benefits of a Yes vote would be worth a hit to our personal finances.

But the poorest people don’t have the luxury of that choice in the way he and I do, even if they think it would be in their long term interest.

For the guys out there who can’t eat on a Friday even a slight increase in cost of living above the current upwards trend could mean not eating on Thursday or Wednesday too.

I mean, that increase could be very short term – a couple of weeks or months. It could also be longer term.
But in the short term it could push people over the edge.

It’s scary and saddening how precarious some people’s lives are even in our modern, advanced, civilised country.

Well the fat lady is gargling TCP in preparation for her aria

I’ve thought about how I’d vote, if I had a say.

I think it would be yes
I don’t like the way the yes campaign has gone about it’s job, particularly at grass roots level but I’m a risk taker and I think I would take this particular one.
Besides, if I were in Scotland and it al went wrong, I’d just leave 🙂

So my cross goes in the YES box
How about other non-voters?

Dimbleby gave Salmond an easy time last night. He allowed Salmond to dictate the interview, the occasions when Salmond got flustered Dimbleby just let him go off on a tangent. Salmond agreed there would be challenges with independence, Dimbleby asked what the risks would be, Salmond immediately looked flustered and mumbled and then went off on what he wanted to say which had nothing to do with the risks. Dimbleby allowed him to talk his usual waffle instead of coming back at him. What a missed opportunity!

Opinum yes 48 no 52

news.opinium.co.uk/survey-results/opiniumtelegraph-scottish-referendum-poll

Same for ICM

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-poll-icm-puts-yes-up-to-48-1-3543614

Just think, in 24 hours the people of Scotland will be sovereign for the first time in history.

Or half will be sulking, gut feel says the undecided my go no and some will get some performance anxiety/stage fright and vote no.
I at least hope the turnout is in the high 70’s or above. It should really be mandatory to vote in these sort of things.

no will still win by about 4% [ 46% – 54% – arguing over whether that is 4% or 8% could be todays off topic topic ;-)]

it’s about the fact that England, Wales and NI are oppressed in the shape of prescription charges, education charges

In what way is that oppression? I’m unimpressed that free prescriptions here means less money available to help those who can’t help themselves. Likewise, one of my kids is about to get free school meals. Why? I can and should afford both.

And don’t give me any crap that they aren’t affordable

Little is or isn’t affordable in absolute terms. It is just that if you spend it on one thing you can’t spend it on another. So Scotland is spending money giving me free prescriptions and free school meals I don’t need. Which means someone somewhere who needs something isn’t getting it.

How’s that helping social equality?

Then when we don’t get the Devo Max,that is/isn’t promised it will be close enough to do it all again.

I don’t really think the prescription thing is such a big deal

Last I heard figures was that most people in England were exempt from the charges anyway. I am – purely because I need to take Levothyroxine every day so now all my prescriptions are free regardless of what they are for.

rather than agreeing with bean counters that pepper us with scare stories.

Aka people who know what they are talking about.

This what really pisses me off here. People generating their own useless spin, never mind the politicians, to justify what they fancy. It’s not debate, it’s just confirming your own bias.

Independence is not the change you need, and it’s not the change the UK needs. It’s just lashing out at the nearest thing.

Last I heard figures was that most people in England were exempt from the charges anyway

2012-13 was over 90% free. Scotland issued nearly 99M prescriptions last year. 10% of those being paid for would have given the Government c. £80M at English charging rates. Maybe they didn’t need it.

molgrips – Member

Independence….

…..It’s just lashing out at the nearest thing.

Having to rely on the media (both mainstream and social) for my insights into the thoughts behind the voting, it does seem that there’s a large helping of random aspirational hopefulness/bitter anglophobia in the decision making.

As neither side have made a convincing case for significant majority support it is a pity that an important decision like this will be decided by a few 100,000 tweet followers or FB ‘likers’

What could have been a major milestone in political debate/social revolution seems to have degenerated into mere tokenism.

With apologies to the “real Scots” who don’t appear on soundbite TV, post on social media or frequent online forums of course 😉

What could have been a major milestone in political debate/social revolution seems to have degenerated into mere tokenism.

Hilldodger, you’re falling on Ewan Morrison territory here:

The shopping list of ‘positive’ ideal goals could never tally up, the desires of the Yessers were incompatible and contradicted each other, but to raise this was seen as being ‘negative’. Every kind of Yes had to be included, and this meant there could be no debate. Instead there was a kind of self-censorship and conformism…
…I learned then that if you keep a promise of a better society utterly ambiguous it takes on power in the imagination of the listener. Everything can be better “after the revolution”. It’s a brilliant recruitment tool because everyone with all their conflicting desires can imagine precisely what they want.

Ewan Morrison – YES: Why I Joined Yes and Why I Changed to No

Aka people who know what they are talking about.

Bless them for the guidance and insights without them we would be lost and we would experience recessions and stuff like that.