Osbourne says no to currency union.

A business can only give so much to its employees otherwise it’s not profitable, and runs out of money. Cf American car companies who spend more on benefits for ex employees than on running their business.

That is true but it has nothing to do with what I posted or the explanation as to why a business and people want / need different things.
could you address the points I made?

Clearly they want different things , clearly they need different things
I gave you examples

ninfan – Member
Yes, but what happened next?

He offered the freehold ownership of the entire island of Lewis to its inhabitants, and they rejected it, not wanting to take the risk of true independence without the security of a benevolent master who would underwrite them if their fortunes should turn…

History eh…

It’s a bit more complicated than that. Independent freeholds would have been snapped up. The offer was a bit of a poisoned chalice.

I’m sure someone from Lewis will be along shortly to explain how it actually worked.

Iirc, the offer of the individual farm/croft freeholds was voted for, but the deal fell down on the council/community having to accept responsibility for the rest of the estate. One without the other left the whole thing unviable so worthless if separated. Though its years since I learned it. The caveat ‘more complex’ is undoubtedly true on both sides.

Apparently the view of a certain fella in Edinburgh is VOTE EARLY VOTE OFTEN

Junkyard – lazarus
Apparently the view of a certain fella in Edinburgh is VOTE EARLY VOTE OFTEN

The orange sash is a dead giveaway.

BTW credit to the OO for the apparently peaceful parade. Might be something to do with the Yes movement keeping out of the way too.

Epic+1 credit to better together too,and credit to yessers for the 100s of peaceful marches and rallies all over Scotland yesterday. Well done all.

Murdoch isnt pro independence he’s just trying to make a point that post hacking he is still a player, that he can still push politicians around. He doesn’t care for Scotland his involvement is all anti WWestminster for daring to face him down.

Murdoch isnt pro independence he’s just trying to make a point that post hacking he is still a player, that he can still push politicians around. He doesn’t care for Scotland his involvement is all anti WWestminster for daring to face him down.

Well duh. Although he is doing a bit if SNP bashing, either that or Farage has hacked into his account.

If he does support one camp or the other.

I just want him to come down in favour of the option I’m not voting for. Otherwise I’d need to ask myself some serious questions.

Clearly they want different things , clearly they need different things

Well the sets overlap. Their interests are not mutually exclusive, which was my point.

I can’t help but have a little chuckle at the irony of people who don’t want to be part of Britain, complaining that they think the British Broadcasting Corporation is biased against them

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29196912

it is still an election and they still have a legal duty to be impartial

Very few wish to claim they are impartial including you.

piedi di formaggio – Member

I can’t help but have a little chuckle at the irony of people who don’t want to be part of Britain, complaining that they think the British Broadcasting Corporation is biased against them

Yeah, because we’re not part of Britain and we don’t pay licence fees 😕

The BBC’s political bias is a problem regardless of which side of the referendum you’re on, or even if you’re not on either side- because once they’re cheerfully misleading you on one subject, why think it stops there?

It’s like that liar in your office, do you think “Ah well it’s OK because they’re telling lies about other people”, or do you think “What do they say about me?”

I will admit the BBC has let itself and the people down. If I was a Yes supporter I would be pissed off. Northwind is correct.

Oh, come on!

Piers Morgan ? @piersmorgan

Dear People of Scotland, if you vote NO, I promise to go straight back to America. #indyref

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/piers-morgan-attempts-to-save-the-union-by-promising-to-go-back-to-the-us-if-scotland-votes-no-to-independence-9732207.html?dkdk

😆

What examples are there of the BBC misleading people or even being impartial? Just printing articles you don’t like or don’t agree with don’t count. I am looking for actual examples. From my reading of the BBC coverage (and listening to R4) it does have a bias, and that is towards the Yes campaign!

The BBC has an amazing ability to convince everyone that they are biased against them. Paranoia, paranoia, everywhere. Since yS accuses anyone who exposes their bare faced lies as either on one of the 3Bs or the fourth – biased – it’s surprising that they haven’t had more attacks on dear old Auntie.

Their biggest crime is pretending that there is 25 hour news – oh and presenting AS’s BS with little if any critical analysis.

They overdo the flash photograph warnings but rarely warn – sensitive viewers may be offended by the big bare faced lies in this report.

Sadmadalan There have been a number of incidents such as on PMQS on the third of Sept The BBC news website reported that CMD had offered Alex Salmond a public debate and suggested a date but had received no reply. Mr Cameron said no such thing,I watched PMQ live. There is an argument too about interviewing politicians on an election basis for a referendum as this results in 3 interviewees for no to 1 for yes.
It seems most ridiculous and insulting though that BBC Scotland thought a photo of a dozen or yes supporters portrayed the Yes rally in Glaasgow yesterday when the reality was several thousand packed Buchanan St .
Then there is the matter of London sending correspondents to Scotland who take on the role of the local correspondent . Does Nick Robinson really know Scottish politics better than Brian Taylor.
On the subject of Mr Robinson and the mysterious edited answer, I am not in favour of marching with banners demanding that journalists be sacked,but I do think Mr Robinson has a case to answer.
At least the BBC reported this demo unlike earlier ones. Then there was Jackie Bird who said that Carney had claimed currency union was “incompatible with an independent Scotland” he didnt he said currency union was incompatible with sovereignty” I could go on

Radio 4 have been doing a section on presenters experiences with the NHS. James Haughty managed to get a few sly digs in about the SNP government at Holyrood. I still think the BBC provides a good service, however in the past few weeks in particular they have certainly been more pro UK IMO.

Quality protests fro yS – you can stick your licence few up you arse – where do they find these people.

Oh well it got the master of the dark arts Campbell to react

“Had my run ins with BBC, but organised protests like the one going on now is beyond Tebbit, and not far off Putin. Vote YES for intimidation,” Mr Campbell wrote on Twitter.

So allegedly, the BBC doesn’t balance the case of 2m v 70m and the potential ensuing chaos. Well blow me over…

Did they restrict Jurassic Jim to BBC 3 – he has been on QT not that long ago.

What examples are there of the BBC misleading people or even being impartial? Just printing articles you don’t like or don’t agree with don’t count. I am looking for actual examples. From my reading of the BBC coverage (and listening to R4) it does have a bias, and that is towards the Yes campaign!

I think they’ve got a tough job and I’m not sure if there’s any deliberate bias or not.

The Nick Robinson/Alex Salmond edit didn’t look great for the BBC but not sure how it ended up the way it did.

A lot of people in Glasgow at the weekend were wound up by the report on the news on Saturday. It was balanced in that it presented Yes and No stuff from around Scotland, but it homed in on “the No campaign out in force in Glasgow city centre” and completely ignored the really huge Yes presence that was out as well.

some fella did a report as well
It is not what I would call fully scientific but it is indicative

FWIW i have not read any claims of pro independence bias [ until yours]and normally everyone is moaning at the BBC if they get it right.

http://en.ria.ru/analysis/20140913/192917055/Professor-BBCs-Anti-Scottish-Independence-Bias-Increases-as-Vote.html

IIRC there was a response from the author , I read it months ago.
Interesting but not completely objective but

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/john-robertson-oliver-

: Has the BBC responded to your report?

JR: Yes, within days a short and quite insulting email was copied to my Principal. Two weeks later a six thousand word ‘forensic’ attack on my research was sent, again widely copied to anyone who had contacted them about my research. I replied, taking their argument apart, point by point. Four or five days later, a short email agreeing to disagree appeared. The full text of these exchanges can be found on the Derek Bateman blogs and on newsnetscotland.com.

An Early Day motion at the House of Parliament on 5th February called on the BBC to at least report on the research. This has been ignored.

Between the first email and the fuller critique, Newsnight Scotland made a provisional offer of a place that night then withdrew the offer after management interference with editorial autonomy. Other initial invitations led to later withdrawals. I did however make it onto Radio Scotland on Saturday 1st February at 8.20 am for 8 minutes.

Since then, the radio interview has been pulled from the Radio Scotland site (it’s still on YouTube) and several of my colleagues have been warned by BBC contacts to distance themselves from me.

http://www.thedrum.com/opinion/2014/06/30/i-was-bullied-bbc-over-academic-report-indyref-bias-scottish-media-blackout-must

@gordhimor

Sadmadalan There have been a number of incidents such as on PMQS on the third of Sept The BBC news website reported that CMD had offered Alex Salmond a public debate and suggested a date but had received no reply. Mr Cameron said no such thing,I watched PMQ live.

It’s right here, in Hansard from the 3rd:

The Prime Minister: On the television programme on Scottish Television, I offered them a date and, indeed, a format, but they seemed to run away themselves, which is a great pity.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201415/cmhansrd/cm140903/debtext/140903-0001.htm#14090345000279

HTH

oldnpastit – read back what you just wrote – including both quotes. See if you can post the vital difference.

the question: Earlier this year, the Prime Minister gave a commitment on Scottish Television to take part in a programme with undecided voters before the referendum. Will he be doing that or running away, just as he ran away from a debate with the First Minister?

The Prime Minister: On the television programme on Scottish Television, I offered them a date and, indeed, a format, but they seemed to run away themselves, which is a great pity.

he is not even talking about a debate with AS as he was not asked.

oldnpastit – read back what you just wrote – including both quotes. See if you can post the vital difference.

Sorry, can you explain? Or are we talking about a subtle change in tense between the two?

So why did the BBC mention Alex Salmond in their report on the incident?

Having watched the ‘two versions’ of the Salmond/Robinson argument a couple of times, it seemed to me that Robinson didn’t actually get an answer to the question, and I’m not surprised that none of the rest of it was shown as it appears to have been

i) factually wrong (the BBC didn’t release anything, the Sun had the story first, RBS and the head of the civil service say no breaches)
ii) Attacking the messenger rather than the message (accusing robinson of heckling him when he tried to get an answer)
iii) manufactured (the ‘placemen’ in the closed press conference whooping and hollering like 12 year olds)

the irony of people who don’t want to be part of Britain, complaining that they think the British Broadcasting Corporation is biased against them

is that ironic?

the BBC doesn’t balance the case of 2m v 70m

why the assumption that English people are anti-independence?

either the poster has misremembered the report or the BBC misled in its report

I do not know either way.

You seem to be proving my point Oldnpastit. The debate that Mr Cameron proposed a date and format for is to be held with undecided voters

Earlier this year, the Prime Minister gave a commitment on Scottish Television to take part in a programme with undecided voters before the referendum. Will he be doing that or running away, just as he ran away from a debate with the First Minister?

The Prime Minister: On the television programme on Scottish Television, I offered them a date and, indeed, a format, but they seemed to run away themselves, which is a great pity. From your own link

A link to the BBC report of PMQs would be enlightening.

Indeed my google fu gave only a link to the live feed despite numerous attempts

ninfan
1. As I used to say to TJ , he did answer the question it is just that he did not like the answer. He even stopped to answer it again.
Given he spoke for about 6 mins to say he did not answer was somewhat misleading.
2.RBS and the head of the civil service say no breaches
They did a press release before the board had finished
Hell those civil servants are good or that is a cover up. No one can think that handled correctly No one.
3. Yes it was a bit off that part.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, Scottish financial institutions are having a hard time due to worries over independence:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f8ba8ca0-3a7c-11e4-bd08-00144feabdc0.html

“Most professionals are cacking themselves. They are terrified of independence and a new regulatory regime.”

he did answer the question it is just that he did not like the answer.

No, he did the usual

Robinson asked him about ‘tax revenues’

Salmond replied in a narrow sense by ‘correcting him on a factual point’ regards corporation tax

Who mentioned corporation tax?

it was a classic swerve.

He certainly never answered the point on why they should believe him over business owners, he also said he would ask Robinson about the BBC’s role, made serious allegations, but didn’t let Robinson answer/respond on behalf of the BBC – in fact the whole thing appeared to be manufactured outrage to try to silence someone who asks difficult questions.

By the way – loved this:

@ oldnpastit Cant find a link to the website for that date, I made a complaint to the bbc so if they answer it (they dont respond to all complants) I ll be happy to let you know

Robinson asked him about ‘tax revenues’

Salmond replied in a narrow sense by ‘correcting him on a factual point’ regards corporation tax
**** me you are right i have never ever heard another politician ever do that before when interviewed and if it ever happened the BBC chief political reporter would have no cut of the answer and simply state they just did not answer.

it was a classic swerve

AKA as not the answer you wanted.

His answer may have been as bad as Nicks account of it but only one of them has to be impartial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_media_effect

now you have identified your problem you only need to find a cure 😉