Sorry I’m rather late on this, but somewhat disappointed that nobody else bothered to read Ben’s link to find that QT isn’t actually produced by BBC Scotland. So it seems what we stand to lose is actually Waterloo Road and Mrs Brown’s Boys – I suspect many will agree with me that seems a reasonable trade 😉

Wikipedia in “not entirely accurate” shocker 😉

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2009/mar/24/newsnight-review-revamp

Nonsense or clown either one makes the same point.
Winston my other sentence says “You are right enough Epiccyclo but there is no language of the gael on STW. My point being that a translation of epiccyclo s post was needed. Although his point is well made, Scotland has two languages of its own plus English.
I could have used the word ghaidhlig but decided to use the phrase canan nan gaidheal as it is a well known gaelic song which is about fighting {successfully}against loss of language and culture

Yet you want to belong to the EU? 😯

Well known by the standards of gaelic songs anyway 🙂

Yet you want to belong to the EU?

Oh good grief. Yes. I want I live in a country that’s part of an international community, with international treaties and obligations.

Like, oh, every other country on the planet.

North Korea?

Scotland has two languages of its own plus English.

That’s very debatable.
To try and claim “Scots” is a language rather than just a dialect is like saying “Geordie” is a language.

fighting {successfully}against loss of language and culture

1% doesn’t sound very successful to me.

Languages evoke, change and often die. Why not resurrect Pictish as this was once the primary language in Scotland?

Given the strenuous and persistent efforts to eradicate gaelic,kilts, bagpipes,fiddles and anything else that was seen as Highland it seems to me a remarkable success that aspects of “Highland” culture are once again very well integrated and valued throughout Scotland.

News just in……

Alex Salmond claims he has every right to use gym he’s no longer member of.

Scotland’s First Minister Alex Salmond has rejected claims by Virgin Active that no longer being a member of their club means that he can’t use their equipment any time he likes.

Independent Scotland joining Eurovision would be ‘very difficult for everyone’

LHS – Member
News just in……

Alex Salmond claims he has every right to use gym he’s no longer member of.

Salmond in a gym? 🙂

“Highland” culture are once again very well integrated and valued

I thought it was Sir Walter Scott that did that and the current image of the “Highland” culture is a very romanticised. Besides, it has nothing to do with the vast majority who are Lowlanders.

From Wiki:

The Lowlands (Scots: the Lallans or the Lawlands; Scottish Gaelic: a’ Ghalldachd, “the place of the foreigner”) are a historic region of Scotland.

My point is not about the tartan and shortbread image, but rather about language music and culture. I know that lots of people enjoy Scotts novels -I am not one of them. Not many Scots subscribe to the image of the country that Scott created, that is much more popular outside of Scotland than it is here. Ghalltachd refers to the lowlands yes but it means the place where they speak the foreign language {English} rather than place of the foreigners. Gaelic was originally the language of most of Scotland except the far north and the lothians. You only have to look at the place names.

Ooh, that pesky Wikipedia again – actually a more accurate translation of a’Ghalldachd is the non-Gaelic-speaking lands. But whatever – Gaelic might not be the prime language of many, but Gaelic words and especially place names are common. Scots words even more so.

you only have to look at the place names

language music and culture

But thats a very arbitrary and selective slice of Scottish Culture – it certainly doesn’t reflect the historic culture of the debatable lands and Reivers country.

Ghalltachd refers to the lowlands yes but it means the place where they speak the foreign language {English} rather than place of the foreigners.

If they weren’t a separate ethic group/race/culture (choose whichever you prefer), why did they speak a completely different language?

It can easily be argued that the Central Belt had much more in common culturally with England, than with the Highlands. Right up until the 1700’s the Highlands were considered a wild place and nobody ventured there. The society was still tribal.

They were ethnically cleansed in the Clearances, this wasn’t done by just the English but their fellow Scots helped as well.

There is no common Scottish culture.

LHS – That’s Scandinavian nothing to do with the Scots.

There is no common Scottish culture.

I guess those of us who were born and live here will just have to bow to your greater knowledge of the Jocks.

LHS – That’s Scandinavian nothing to do with the Scots.

I think you will find there are a number of Twatts in Scotland.

Is this thread going to get back on track at all as I thought AS’s speech was hilarious!

The pot was there yelling at the kettle, then the little boy came in & started stamping his feet, making threats if he didn’t get what he wanted…

Seriously though, I had some respect for AS prior to this speech but now HA! What a clown!

Just to clarify, I have no axe to grind ref the Scottish independence. I don’t why it shouldn’t go ahead but AS’s take on “independence” needs an entry in the dictionary all of its own because it bears no resemblance to the version of independence I’m familiar with.

Some interesting stuff re EU membership:

http://futureukandscotland.ac.uk/blog/scottish-independence-and-eu

I like that ben, easy to read and clearly sets out the position at hand.

Winston this is from the open university mooc “Gaelic in Modern Scotland”

1 Gaelic as a national language of Scotland
1.1 Introduction
Modern Scotland, like most nations of the world, is a multilingual entity with a complex linguistic history. In many people’s eyes, Gaelic belongs predominantly to the Highlands and (west coast) Islands, but the linguistic division of Scotland along the Highland/Lowland line reflects only the latter part of the country’s long history.
Indeed, of recorded Scottish languages, Gaelic defers solely to English with regard to its maximum geographical extent. The only modern administrative regions which have no significant Gaelic heritage are the Northern Isles of Orkney and Shetland, which remained outside the Scottish kingdom (and the later ‘Gàidhealtachd’) at the time of Gaelic pre-eminence and whose inhabitants view themselves as belonging largely to the Norse sphere of influence.
Incidentally you said it was not a success that gaelic is still spoken in Scotland

1% doesn’t sound very successful to me.

and in another post you said referring to gaels

They were ethnically cleansed in the Clearances, this wasn’t done by just the English but their fellow Scots helped as well.

Your own words
Yet they and their language remain.

The language is pretty much dead, it’s not like you see it on any official documents or hear anyone speak it in the street. Compare that with Wales where it Welsh is used regularly.

Then English is the language of international business and Scotland, so any arguments about independance and language is blind alley.

arguments about independance and language is blind alley.

I actually agree with you there Dragon
Its just the claims that there is no distinct Scottish culture that are laughable really

Interesting article about bias in the media:

http://www.journalism.co.uk/news-commentary/is-traditional-journalism-broken-in-scotland-/s6/a555869/

Ooh, that pesky Wikipedia again – actually a more accurate translation of a’Ghalldachd is the non-Gaelic-speaking lands. But whatever – Gaelic might not be the prime language of many, but Gaelic words and especially place names are common. Scots words even more so.

The gaeltacht, is the gaelic speaking parts. btw fwiw England has lots of Celtic place names etc aswell.

btw dunno why Celtic history is coming into this, the whole of these islands, England included and a fair old chunk of europe has Celtic origins.

History doesn’t really come into it, it’s quite simple, there are a fair old whack of scots that feel we’d be better represented in a smaller Democratic grouping. That doesn’t mean that what went previous is wrong, just at this moment in time, we feel that the larger grouping is deverging from what we want. Example, is that when they proxy parties get into power in holyrood(scottish labour), under the UK government, watch them dismantle the health service, free eduction etc, all to be inline with England.

That’s why I’m voting for an IS, I’m against the privatisation of the individual.

Bugger all to do with who did and didn’t speak gaelic(my grandparents first language) or any perseption of cultural differences, which are minimal.

Precisely. I’m first-generation Scottish with English and American parents, my partner is English. All voting for independence. This isn’t about history, it’s about the future.

bencooper – Member
Precisely. I’m first-generation Scottish with English and American parents, my partner is English. All voting for independence. This isn’t about history, it’s about the future.

ps that wasn’t particularly aimed at you! 😉

Didn’t think it was 😉

teamhurtmore – Member
In his usual, unbalanced way wee eck with stand up tomorrow and talk about only one side of currency unions – reducing transaction costs and he will “dress this up” by calling GO/EB/DA/HM Tres notion (incorrectly) a “tax” on business. Conveniently, he will ignore the other side of unions – giving up independence – since that is counter to the whole debate. He will of course also use the three Bs and “assets”. He may also have to add his mate’s new retort “preposterous” as well? If only predicting the outcome of horse races was this easy!
POSTED 22 HOURS AGO #

Been in meetings most of today and only read FT and BBC coverage, but pretty much a full house in the BS stakes

1. ” george tax” (tick): nice tag line and will ring bells. But complete bollocks. Not even close to a tax. Yes if you don’t share currencies there are transaction costs but that is not even close to the definition of tax. Add “george tax” to “assets” in the BS bingo. Classic Amber light of BS coming up next.

2. No recognition of the counter argument of seperate currencies (tick). Not surprise there. Presenting one side of the argument and loading it with negative (and he talks about a positive story) and false descriptions

3. The liability arguments again and the threat of a technical defaul (tick).

4. Three Bs (cross) as far as I can see from reports. But a nice opening line about misjudging the Scots people. We prefer to swallow our own/ my lies (since they are home grown porkies) rather than being bullied with the truth from anyone else.

Lays the foundations for the House of Hubris perfectly. I can’t face reading the full text yet, time for a run instead.

full text of Salmonds speech
Summarising without reading THM 🙂

I guess those of us who were born and live here will just have to bow to your greater knowledge of the Jocks.

Do you have much experience of, say, the Outer Hebrides? I think your average borders resident has far more in common with the English than they do with the locals on Harris and Lewis.

Example, is that when they proxy parties get into power in holyrood(scottish labour), under the UK government, watch them dismantle the health service, free eduction etc, all to be inline with England.

The current lot are managing to destroy it atm!!
MrsT has an insight into what goes on out with hospitals but still in NHS and it is a shambles. Millions of pounds have been and are being wasted………Too many quangos and nothing joined up.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics.html

Bencooper if it went pear shaped you’d probably decide on a job elsewhere leaving real Scots with their family ties/roots

British in the sense a German or Italian is European. If you ask my nationality, it’s always been Scottish. Don’t English people do the same?

Not me – I’m British if asked, English if pressed, Devonian if pressed further. 😉
I think this is actually a big drawback for the English. we’re under-represented, and I think this is possibly because most of us feel British, so why would we need another parliament, other than the one we’ve got? don’t know – nothing to back that up.
Therefore no English parliament. Personally I’d rather we all did without regional assemblies, including the welsh and scots, as they’re just another tier of politicians feeding in the trough which ultimately we all have to pay for.
More politicians is not something anyone really wants, is it, politicians aside?
Anyway, rather off the point of the ( quite interesting ) thread.
Personally i’d rather see the Union stay together. surely we’re stronger together? simplistic view maybe…

Gordi, thanks for the link. It couldn’t get it to work. Maybe a bit tired after a quick 10 miler. But read it off the STV website in full.

Actually a bit of credit is due to wee eck this time. Of course there is the expected BS and the new addition of the “George tax” lie, but that is just par for the course. Given that his advisers are currently arguing about what plan c should be, he made a reasonable fist of the bad hand that he was dealt. Plus he made a very subtle but important change of tack. When presenting the smokes and mirrors about debt and the pound, he very carefully avoided use of the word pound at the same time as saying asset. Finally learning or just a slip? Instead he referred to the BOE as the shared asset, which is much better. Keep going at this rate and he might start telling the whole truth.