Not all programmers are on here: ISIS content.

Like the Saudi’s you mean?

No, I mean your suggestion that this nutjob was |”on the same side” as Assad and the Queen, is risible, to say the least. Also, another indication of your inability to reason constructively.

You need to give your sarcasm receptor a clean.

He was against Assad, which in 2012 meant he was on the same side as the Queen… remember, allies have been supplying rebels with weapons since before ISIS were ever mentioned

Yes yes, the “West” likes meddling in the Middle East. We know all this. You know we know all this, yet you repeat it. What’s your point?

I’m disappointed that jhj hasn’t posted a pic of Mohammed shaking hands with the Queen – he’s slipping.

Anyone else the CAGE interviews? Pretty disgraceful attempt to link being on an MI5 watchlist to turning into a Jihadist. Obviously CAGE don’t understand that Mohammed was trying to join Somali jihad for years and MI5 kept stopping him.

Aside from the BBC interview on SKY the presenter tells the spokesperson to “Get over yourself” 😀

Yet flags weren’t flown half mast for the Death of Princess Diana~ why is that?

It’s Royal protocol not to fly flags at half mast as that is seen as a sign of weakness.

I listened to the interview on the cycle home fae work, I thought the “Cage directer was almost an apologist for his actions – fair enough he mentioned Mohammad almost being strangled by the police and being harassed but that is in no way an excuse for his subsequent actions against innocents caught up in the situation – I’ve been harassed and punched by the police but to turn such an encounter into a so called Jihad against the western world and it’s people is just unfathomable as to where his justification comes from.

And jivehoneyjive ? – you may have a point but for gawds sake will you,…..just for once actually converse and contribute to threads such as these with an opinion instead of carpet bombing us with pics and links to conspiracy theories 101 for dummies as whenever i see one of your posts i automatically skip it/ignore it and move on.

I’m disappointed that jhj hasn’t posted a pic of Mohammed shaking hands with the Queen

It was in jersey but jimmy Savilles photo bombing means you cannot see him clearly.

Still think its best to give them no publicity and that applies equally to JHJ as it does to Jihadi john

Pretty disgraceful attempt to link being on an MI5 watchlist to turning into a Jihadist.

I can understand that he was upset that in the “prison” of London he was prevented from going about his life, free to follow his beliefs without harassment. And naturally the only logical way for hin to react was to join a group who behead people who follow different beliefs. Quite understandable.

You want my opinion?

My opinion is that it’s very strange how one minute the West is supporting rebels in Syria then seemingly out of nowhere a vast network of well armed boogeymen appear.

It’s also very strange how it always seems to be the same people who profit from wars after starting those wars in the 1st place on the basis of lies told to the people paying for those wars (taxpayers)

Though that 2nd image says America, given the ‘special relationship’ with the UK, it applies equally to our (sorry, Her Majesty’s) Government

Don’t be fooled again…

Asim Quereshi of CAGE[/url]

Just seen him on TV. Not often I feel like throwing things at the TV.

That article – apologies, haven’t quite worked out links on my phone:

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/?utm_source=SFFB

Basically, it’s pretty coherent long form journalism about ISIL and how it’s an end of days cult. The kind of thing that takes the apocrypha literally and is looking for the end of the world because it’s predicted in the holy book. Westborough baptist version of islam but better armed. The thing is, those sorts of cults draw people into their logic and get people to do things they would have thought unthinkable in their previous lives. I don’t think you have to be mad, just malleable and needing the kind of structure, purpose and belief they give you.

The point I’m not getting today is that the security services have known his name for ages but kept it quiet for supposed operational reasons, yet the Washington Post and BBC decided to run with the story?

Unless the security services wanted it released now?

Presumably a D Notice would have kept the BBC quiet if necessary?

jivehoneyjive – Member
You want my opinion?

No.

Yet flags weren’t flown half mast for the Death of Princess Diana~ why is that?

It’s Royal protocol not to fly flags at half mast as that is seen as a sign of weakness.

So why were they flown at half mast for the Saudi King, who exported the wahhabist faith that is the basis of ISIS and Al-Qaeda’s beliefs?

JHJ.

Can you please stop saying things are “very strange”

Just say what you think.

JHJ – can you tell me what year the Taliban were founded and if someone had met them in 1983 would it indicate that time machines have been invented and are being kept from the people ?

Can you then also provide details from a reliable website that describes the meeting between John McCain and “Al Qaeda”. Can you then explain why a group dedicated to disliking Americans didn’t kidnap or kill him ?

Remember, use a reliable source of information – “don’t get fooled again”!

I don’t know where the OP got that idea – just because we’re not posting doesn’t mean we’re not lurking.

100

I think the leaders of Islamic State are Salafis rather than Wahabis.

can you tell me what year the Taliban were founded and if someone had met them in 1983 would it indicate that time machines have been invented and are being kept from the people ?

Can you tell me the origins of the Taliban (and Al-Qaeda)?

The Taliban movement traces its origin to the Pakistani-trained mujahideen in northern Pakistan, during the Soviet war in Afghanistan.

Bear in mind the Pakistani forces training the mujahideen were funded, armed and supported by MI6, CIA and Saudi intelligence services under Operation Cyclone…

Sorry to have to keep going over this ground in various threads, but events back then have a direct link to the current situation (Obama’s appearance in the video is testament to that, though links go far deeper)

Can you then also provide details from a reliable website that describes the meeting between John McCain and “Al Qaeda”

Ta-da[/url]

Free Syrian Army brigade commander as saying he is working with the “Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra, Al-Qaeda’s official Syrian affiliate — both U.S.-designated terrorist organizations

Can you then explain why a group dedicated to disliking Americans didn’t kidnap or kill him ?

Just because a group is designated as a terrorist organization (by what is arguably a commercially profitable terrorist organization) doesn’t mean they automatically go on the rampage the moment they see a westerner, especially if he is giving them weapons or other support.

I think the leaders of Islamic State are Salafis rather than Wahabis.

Observers differ over whether Salafi are the same as Wahhabis or not

Sorry to have to keep going over this ground in various threads

Not as sorry as the rest of us

jivehoneyjive

Sorry to have to keep going over this ground in various threads, but events back then have a direct link to the current situation (Obama’s appearance in the video is testament to that, though links go far deeper)

Believe it or not some of us know. Perhaps a lot of us know. I’ve been banging on about the whys of IS and the various Iraq and Afghan wars on numerous threads. Granted, there do appear to be a handful of people who frequent the forum who come out with Fox news-esque “bomb them all bullshit” but most people realise IS didn’t come up the Tigris in a bubble.

Any point you attempt to make is completely lost in a web of conspiratorial nonsense.

In this instance I’m more interested in how “jihadi john” came to do what he’s doing, as opposed to another debate about IS which has been covered in about five threads going into dozens of pages very recently.

American reporter on newsnight claims Emwazi was obsessed with Al-Shabaab and showed their videos to his hostages. Makes a mockery of what the spokesman from CAGE said in the press conference.

I think the leaders of Islamic State are Salafis rather than Wahabis.

Is there a difference ?

the later is way more points in Scrabble

Believe it or not some of us know.

Glad to hear that jimjam, though the constant challenges I receive suggest many disbelieve the less publicized elements of the situation.

In this instance I’m more interested in how “jihadi john” came to do what he’s doing

Obviously details are still emerging regarding Jihadi John, but as is almost always the case, he’s had prior contact with the intelligence services, who tried to recruit him

However you look at it, this is an important factor when trying to get to the truth, especially since:

when Jihadi John went to fight in Syria in 2012, he was on the same side in the conflict as the UK + U.S. Establishments

jivehoneyjive

However you look at it, this is an important factor when trying to get to the truth, especially since:

Yeah but as I said I’m not really so interested in the geopolitical landscape shifting around him, as I said I’d be more curious how he can do the things that he’s done.

I’m not really so interested in the geopolitical landscape shifting around him

The UK government, in line with many other western governments, shows an absolutely staggering level of hypocrisy when it comes to foreign policy.

The UK government did not previously consider ISIS to be an illegal terrorist organisation even though it was clearly engaged in appalling atrocities such as the beheading of captured Syrian soldiers.

Then as their strength grew ISIS crossed the boarder into Iraq a started committing exactly the same appalling atrocities there, but because they were now threatening Western interests the UK had no hesitation in declaring them an illegal terrorist organisation.

ISIS only became unlawful last June :

UK outlaws Isis, the militant group behind Iraqi attacks

How does the UK government get away with this clearly breathtaking level of hypocrisy ? Well I think the clue lies in the above quote – widespread public indifference. People just don’t care. They only ask questions when it all goes spectacularly wrong and English speaking people start to die – who cares about the appalling mess that Libya is in now (and we very much helped to create) as long as the media doesn’t report the death of English speakers? Let’s be honest, very few people, despite the daily slaughter.

Even when questions are eventually asked because it is obvious that things have gone horribly wrong the wider public completely absolves our governments – mostly because they are told to.

And so driven by greed, short-termism, and an unshatterable faith by former colonial powers that military might and superiority is the only real solution, the mistakes are repeated again and again, only to come back to haunt us again and again. Having learnt nothing from the past we prop up brutal totalitarian regimes in the Gulf and fan the flames of war in Syria, for example. And still the wider public is “not really so interested in the geopolitical landscape”. Until they see horrible newspaper headlines concerning people who speak the same language as themselves.

CAGE. So Qureshi not surprisingly from @cranberry’s link was on a pro-Jihadist rally. He was on Newsnight a while ago as the representative of the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights with just the same “its all the West’s fault” rhetoric. His colleague Cerie Bullivent (who stomped off after Sky news told him to “get over yourself”) has been the subject of a Detention Order, ie locked up as a potential terrorist.

The whole Tanzanian Safari episode, Emwazi was IMO clearly trying to enter Somalia to fight with Jihadists so no wonder he was turned back. Whilst he was born in Kuwait he had no passport or right to reside there, he was denied entry by the Kuwaiti’s. Kuwait of course borders Iraq, easy entry there to join the Jihadists.

On reflection I am happy these people where given airtime as it shows the threats we face from within the UK.

I agree with Ernie. Although the hypocrisy doesn’t surprise me. ‘Twas ever thus. Everywhere.

Qureshi was on Ch 4 news last night making a fool of himself, avoiding condemning “the lovely man” Emwazi, and accusing Jon Snow of only asking him to do so because he is a Muslim. Really, just nuke the f*ckers from orbit.

ernie_lynch

The UK government, in line with many other western governments, shows an absolutely staggering level of hypocrisy when it comes to foreign policy.

I agree but that’s been debated ad nauseum on several other very long threads very recently. I’m not asking you to shut up, I was just asking jivehoneyjive to stop muddying the waters and taking the thread of at another tangent and trying to explain to him that some of us do actually understand the historical context behind what is going on.

jambalaya

The whole Tanzanian Safari episode, Emwazi was IMO clearly trying to enter Somalia to fight with Jihadists so no wonder he was turned back. Whilst he was born in Kuwait he had no passport or right to reside there, he was denied entry by the Kuwaiti’s. Kuwait of course borders Iraq, easy entry there to join the Jihadists.

Well according to the journalist who broke the story this is absolutely the case, Qureshi is full of it. Sounds to me like MI5 had the right man and were acting entirely reasonably.

To paraphrase the entertaining weevil Omar Bakri Mohammed re: the Spice Girls –

Who is this “Qureshi”? He should be arrested immediately.

For crimes against facial hair.

Qureshi was on Ch 4 news last night making a fool of himself, avoiding condemning “the lovely man” Emwazi, and accusing Jon Snow of only asking him to do so because he is a Muslim. Really, just nuke the f*ckers from orbit.

That is exactly the same interview and response to questions as the gave the BBC on Newsnight perhaps a year ago when he represented the Syrian Human Rights Watch.

There was an interesting exchange on the BBC with a Muslim leader from Birmingham who was arguing that people like Anjem Choudary should not be allowed to walk around on the streets spreading his hate message. Another commentator (British woman Islam convert ?) who was trying the same line as Qureshi about the radicalisation being due to UK foreign policy. He called her naive. Quite refreshing.

@jimjam – yes indeed I saw the interview with the WSJ guy. It hadn’t occurred to me at first but its obvious when you look at the map.

Another commentator (British woman Islam convert ?) who was trying the same line as Qureshi about the radicalisation being due to UK foreign policy. He called her naive. Quite refreshing.

Someone interviewed yesterday on BBC news said that these guys are getting radicalised because they are getting sucked into a powerful narrative from IS, and that there needs to be an equally powerful counter narrative.

How F***ing long has it taken people to figure this out???

there needs to be an equally powerful counter narrative.

There’s no such thing as god.

Works for me. 😉 😀

If you haven’t read it, you really ought to read “”What Isis really wants”

Most illuminating.