I’ve got a bike which I bought secondhand a couple of months ago, before my trip to the Alps. It’s turned out to be a cracker, not to mention a hell of a bargain – apart from one thing: Internal cable routing.

I’ve had this before for gear lines, but this bike takes it to another level with internal routing of the brake hoses too – and not just through the mainframe but the chainstay as well.

Having had to swap the brakes over in resort and zip tie the new one to the top tube, I’ve now added internal cables to my list of bike purchase deal-breakers.

This list also includes…
Press-fit BBs on MTBs
SRAM gearing on MTBs
Short warranties on expensive frames

Avid brakes

‘Aspirational’ pricing on Taiwanese made stuff.
Lack of mud clearance.
Brown paint.
650b.
Awful dealers.
Terrible websites.
Previous negative experiance of a brand.
Anything by Crank Brothers or Avid.
Money saving rip offs sold as innovation.

Just built my first bike with internal routing. I’d hate to do hydro brakes that way but for gear cables, quite happy. I had more problems not thinking about cable lengths before I started so I had to pull the cables out a couple of times to get it right.

In terms of deal breakers:
Shimano shifting on MTB – no problem with it I’m sure, just never used it so prefer SRAM (road is the other way around)
First generation “innovative” technology – I’ll wait for the next generation

Other than that I’m quite happy to consider most things although I’d need convincing to buy an Orange Five or a Lefty fork

Related to my original point: Reverb Stealth.

Anything by Crank Brothers or Avid.

I did have a great set of Speed Dial brake levers from about 1997, but apart from that I’m with you all the way.

Quite a few manufacturers seem to spec Crank Bros wheelsets on top-end bikes. Great way to put buyers off IMO.

Anything that doesn’t fit what I already own….in which case…

Anything 10 speed
Anything 29’er or 650b, or 27.5″

Plus plenty of kit I don’t get on with….

Anything Avid
Anything Crank Bros

Am I in a new niche?

Internal hosing makes a bike look a lot cleaner, although it is a PITA. It wouldn’t be such an issue if more brake manufacturers used QR couplings. Some does leave a bit to be desired with the chain stay routing though.

The only SRAM stuff I’ll make an exception for is XX1 or XO1, otherwise, not interested. same for anything CB.

That new 456 with the 1 1/8th head tube – incompatible with the vast majority of new forks on the market. Just can’t understand that.

Avid brakes

Amen to that

avid brakes
poor mud clearance
ill put up with sram gears but they are getting swapped out as soon as they wear out or break

Avid brakes.
Press fit/bb30
Gxp cranks
that giant tapered headset ‘standard’ (do they even make it any more?)
Proprietary rear shocks (eg spesh brain, that trek/fox one with the pivots in the middle of the air can)
integrated headsets(bearings go straight into frame with no external or semi-integrated cups) on mountain bikes.

I will also approach with caution:
wierd wheels with unusual spokes
rear ends with no replaceable hanger
rear ends with ludicrously expensive replacement dropouts (intense, newer yetis etc)

On a slight tangent, I wold be most impressed with a bike manufacturer that invested a tiny bit in supplying with the bike a spare hanger and a couple of sets of pre-cut helitape for areas where its extensive r&d has revealed cable rub to be an issue. It baffles me that they spend so much on r&d, marketing, teams etc but are too bone idle or cheapskate to do this on a bike that retails for a grand or five. 😕

Avid/Shimano Brakes
Shimano Drive Train
Trigger Shift
SRAM Grip Shift is all I allow these days 🙂
Shimano Hubs, in fact anything not Hope or CK
PF/BB/Push in BB’s again anything not Hope
Stupidly narrow bars (under 750mm)
also +1 for stupid stuff like custom shocks that are not available after market.

For some reason I don’t buy complete bikes.

and a couple of sets of pre-cut helitape for areas where its extensive r&d has revealed cable rub to be an issue.

they could even stick it on for you!

I avoid any bikes with over the top logo’s or stickering

Stupidly narrow bars (under 750mm)

Gotta give those broad shoulders room to move properly.

I am really not keen on Press fit bottom brackets, internal cable routing or manufacturers special standards. Cheap forks and ones that aren’t bolt thru would stop me muting a bike nowadays as replacements are stupidly expensive.

Everything else can be changed & sold but it soon adds up. avid brakes and nasty own brand finishing kit and wheels are usually the first to go along with cheap and nasty chain sets.

And another thing…

XT rear mechs and Deore shifters? No thanks, I’d rather have it the other way round please.

honourablegeorge – Member

That new 456 with the 1 1/8th head tube – incompatible with the vast majority of new forks on the market. Just can’t understand that.

Ahhh…but perfect for an updated version in 18 months time…..! £kerching£

I kept saying I wouldn’t have another Specialized after my 06 Enduro because of the silly way the the shocks are mounted. I now have an 11 Enduro Evo. 😐

If i was haunted.
Dont think id buy a haunted bike.

Prsss fit BB’s – If I can avoid them, I can. They last less time than a square taper by a considerable margin and I notice no performance improvement.

The new type 2 SRAM rear mech that I am currently using has a lot more play than my older X9 mechs ever had even after several years of use.

Avid disk brakes – I have two bikes which came fitted with them and they suffer from fade, pumping up, inconsistent performance, squeal in the wet and have had several LBS rebleeds. They simply lack the reliability that I’ve enjoyed with Shimano and even Hayes over the years so I would never buy them aftermarket.

Carbon bike frames – I wear things out. I crash. I like technical steep and rocky trails. Carbon and I are ill matched bed fellows. 😀

Internal cable routing – it looks tidy but is just another way of water getting into the frame. It solves a problem that doesn’t really exist in my mind.

Hmm there seems to be a universal dislike of Avid brakes.

Why so exactly ?

Any particular version or is just a “they’re all shite” thing.

I’ve only ever used Magura and Shimano so have no experience but have recently lusted over Avids XO trails.

Am I insane ?

Edit – Just saw Sanny’s comments – Bo****ks !

there were a few designs of Avids that were riddled with reliability issues (seals and leaking) and a convoluted bleeding process.
I have a pair of Elixir CRs that started leaking from the lever after a few months and a pair of Codes that lasted well until I bled them.

For me it’s anything I’m stuck with as a result of the design: –

Press fit BB’s
Lack of ISCG tabs
All 29ers
All 650b (what I buy needs to be compatible with existing 26ers)
+1 for proprietary shocks
Any frames with a history of cracking
Anything in its first year of production
Frames that only take 1 1/8″ steerers
Frames which only have quick release on the rear

I wouldn’t be keen on any of the following (might put me off or I’d probably just strip them off and sell them immediately): –

Anything CB
Fox forks
Wheels which have proprietary spokes
Wheels based on hubs other than Hope or CK

pymwymis – Member

Hmm there seems to be a universal dislike of Avid brakes.

Why so exactly ?

they’re all shite?

i’ve had a few; the levers leaked, the calipers leaked, the pistons seized.

you may be able to get good ones, but they’re more expensive than shimano, and no better.

my tuppence: tiny pivot bearings, i nearly bought a Giant Anthem but you find bigger bearings in a pocket watch.

I do wonder why so many bikes have SRAM/avid stuff as OE.

Must be because nobody wants to buy it aftermarket.

🙂

(Look at Formula instead, I reckon)

Frames which only have quick release on the rear

I did have this on my list, but have softened my stance somewhat.

eg. Lapierre rear ends are stiff enough anyway due to the chainstay reverse taper.

Also softened on 15mm front axles, but only so I could get a Marzocchi 44 RC3 ti forks. Still wish everyone had just stuck to 20mm.

pymwymis – Member

Hmm there seems to be a universal dislike of Avid brakes.

Why so exactly ?

Any particular version or is just a “they’re all shite” thing.

Just to clarify, I like their cable brakes (both rim & disc), it’s just the hydraulic stuff I’m not keen on.

So so far our composite ideal bike consists of

Nothing by :

Avid
CB
SRAM

No proprietary shocks
No fancy spokes
No carbon frames
No internal cableing
No 1/8″ only steerers
No Fox forks
No press fit BB’s
No large or medium sized wheels
No small bearings
No frames which have ever historically broken

Nothing 10 speed

Nothing in its first year of production

Nothing expensive made in Taiwan

Bars min width 750mm

And nothing haunted.

I’m looking forward to seeing the STW collective’s perfect bike.

A pre-650b Heckler? 😛

Edit: Oh actually, weren’t they 1 1/8 steerers? A new one, just get over the wheel size thing.

Santa Cruz is one of ‘those’ firms that expect you to pay a premium because their Taiwanese frames are somewhow seen as a cut above other perfectly good Taiwanese frames selling for half the price.

You’re paying for the name.
In the UK at least.

The Rockhopper I bought in 86 seems to only fail on bar width.

Annoying when you fall between sizes.
I would really like an 18″ frame.
Lots of bikes either come in 17″ or 19″

On one do 18″ frames, but…………….

sounds to me like everyone’s ideal bike is one of these –

Any bike product managers reading will definitely have to be selective in the points they take.

For me I would have to have no-

Sram gears
Avid brakes
Fox forks
Shimano hubs
Dropper posts that aren’t Reverbs
Wheels with silly spokes
Stupid standards that aren’t standards (29 or 650 wheels, 35mm bars, 34.9 seatposts, and in an ideal world no 15mm axles, pressfit bbs or daft headsets)
Internal routing
Crank brothers anything

There is still a surprising amount of bad products out there.

Avid brakes
No dropper routing
Pressfit BB
Too heavy for type/travel

Well, I for one will not have any component that people might define as ‘progress’ in any form whatsoever. No siree!

That and gripshift.