National Trust Vs Right Wing Restore Trust

You can dress it up as making academic points, but letting

the Woke

slip through, complete with capital W, says it all about what you really believe.

Love that the gammonista are so dense that they think calling someone woke is an insult 😂

I understand that it’s uninteresting to some. The solution is “don’t read it, then.”

Yes for example unlike a couple of people on this thread I dont find stately home kitchens particularly interesting but I dont see my lack of interest as being a good reason to deprive those who are interested from learning the historical facts.
I do hope they provide some examples of what they find so offensive. Ideally a nice before and after update text so we can see exactly how it is being highlighted nowadays.

Love that the gammonista are so dense that they think calling someone woke is an insult 😂

Yeah, look at you being woke, ha ha! Blissful ignorance FTW!

Like “political correctness gone mad” of a few years back, “yes but woke” yet another tool to attempt to keep disadvantaged people disadvantaged by demeaning the argument. Like “all lives matter” – no-one’s saying that they don’t, rather the BLM movement is trying to address inequality. These arguments are simply a fear of losing white superiority.

Which may be what’s happening here, an attempt to literally whitewash history.

Yeah, look at you being woke

Remember its always Woke not merely woke. Isnt it about time it got replaced by something else though. I dont recall SJW,snowflake etc lasting so long.

Pride badges.

Think it was the rainbow lanyards (optional)
A few volunteers resigned at my workplace; one of them had previously referred to a colleague as a shirtlifter and had somehow not been sacked. No loss.

Again, please provide some evidence supporting your claims. Just for starters show us some of the recent NT materials which you find so appalling. Since we currently we have a few ex members of staff on the thread seeming a bit bemused and a bunch of punters equally so.

Yeah, I’m curious about this, having been to about 7 or 8 NT properties through the country this year, most recently last Sunday. (Tyntesfield, near Bristol.) I don’t read all of the info boards, but I can’t remember anything at all about the slave trade in any of those properties.

Love that the gammonista are so dense that they think calling someone woke is an insult 😂

It is rather amusing – like when I was debating with an american who called me a “liberal” as an insult – I thanked him and told him its a compliment in europe

I dont find stately home kitchens particularly interesting

You’re missing out!

As long as you don’t skip over paying close attention to the period wallpaper upstairs, you’ll still have a good ‘ole English day out though.

Different strokes, different folks. But you shouldn’t have to get on the internet to find out where the money came from for the build and upkeep of the property over the years… it absolutely is a key part of its history… just as much as who lived in it, and how they lived.

Yeah, I’m curious about this, having been to about 7 or 8 NT properties through the country this year, most recently last Sunday. (Tyntesfield, near Bristol.) I don’t read all of the info boards, but I can’t remember anything at all about the slave trade in any of those properties.

I think the whole thing is a totally made up news story. On one hand the NT are not knocking down Stone Henge and dumping it in the Docks at Bristol, nor are they building massive plastic slaveships to put in gardens at 18thC stately homes. On the other hand if the NT aren’t doing anything especially different it’s hard to imagine any kind of reversal when nothing significant has changed in the first place.

As yet nobody has pointed to a proposed significant change either way. – I’ve skim read the candidates words in the literature and there’s no evidence of any battle there – well not over ‘this kind of thing’.

Just a clickbait non-news article AFAIC.

But you shouldn’t have to get on the internet to find out where the money came from for the build and upkeep of the property over the years…

I was just thinking about my earlier post about the lack of info at the properties I’ve visited this year. On Sunday we visited Tyntesfield, near Ashton Court in Bristol. It’s lovely – almost stereotypically NT. A nice place to visit. I did comment to my wife on Sunday that the family had made their money in the guano trade, as noted in one of the rooms. Wiki has this to say about the Peruvian guano trade – This was mined by indentured Chinese labour on the Chincha Islands in conditions which the Peruvian government acknowledged in 1856 had degenerated “into a kind of Negro slave trade”. The firm’s profits from this trade were such that William Gibbs became the richest non-noble man in England. I didn’t notice that level of info in the house, and it would have been extremely relevant because I spend my time wandering around these properties wondering how the hell anyone could reach that level of wealth.

 I don’t read all of the info boards

One of my pet peeves is that lack of information… Would it kill to have a note under some of the more interesting paintings and furniture? They often want you to engage with the guides, and sometimes…well, lets just say they can be a bit limited in what they know.

Yeah, I’m curious about this, having been to about 7 or 8 NT properties through the country this year, most recently last Sunday. (Tyntesfield, near Bristol.) I don’t read all of the info boards, but I can’t remember anything at all about the slave trade in any of those properties.

same here, we’re lifetime members so I probably go to some national trust place once a month. I’ll admit that visiting houses often involves chasing our toddlers around trying to get them not to touch stuff, but I’ve not registered anything to do with the slave trade at any of them. If anything, they could do with a bit more of it

Would it kill to have a note under some of the more interesting paintings and furniture?

Powis Castle has a Clive of India exhibition room. Clive who?* Conversely, and maybe because it’s a lot less contentious, Plas Newydd has a huge, gorgeous Rex Whistler, with loads of info about him.

*I know who he was, and what he did, but the exhibition wouldn’t have helped me if I didn’t know.

The solution Cakey seems to be pushing is “prevent everyone else from reading it too.” And I don’t really understand why.

I would have thought it was obvious. Its about culture control. They talk about and rail against cancel culture because its their version of culture that is now being stripped away to reveal all of the history…if the stately home wasn’t built on the proceeds of the slave trade, the information could say it was built on the backs of the indigenous population as well. Perhaps, people may look at the romanticised tripe like downton abbey a bit differently.

Yes, TV shows can also feed into the myth’s and the half hidden history of the culture as well.

And since we are talking about sweeping “unpleasant” parts of our history under the carpet, this country would quite possibly not have set course to potentially become an international embarrassment and international pariah if it had learned the lesson of the Suez crisis and the fallout internally and internationally from that.

But unless you actually go looking for it, it is not often mentioned as part of our history. All part of culture control.

Remember its always Woke not merely woke. Isnt it about time it got replaced by something else though. I dont recall SJW,snowflake etc lasting so long.

They come and go – see also “PC”, and my favourite, “do-gooder”. I love the concept that being someone who does good things is an insult.

The difference is that now that the Woke want to frame it as the fulcrum or hub of western history.

It’s up to you to provide the evidence to support your claim, otherwise it can safely be dispensed with as a baseless attack.

I’d also like to know why you’re so keen to police or restrict everyone else’s opportunity to learn.

@Cougar

rather the BLM movement is trying to address inequality.

Sadly, communism isn’t the answer.

WTF does BLM have to do with communism?

I do suspect the cakey one is a troll = surely he cannot believe this tripe?

Has anyone had a read through the blurb about all the candidates and come up with a list of “the good uns” to save us the trouble? Ideally pro woke and pro bike.

Oh, and I like the kitchens and servant areas too. Gives a far better taste of life than the grand rooms.

I would have thought it was obvious. Its about culture control. They talk about and rail against cancel culture because its their version of culture that is now being stripped away to reveal all of the history…if the stately home wasn’t built on the proceeds of the slave trade, the information could say it was built on the backs of the indigenous population as well. Perhaps, people may look at the romanticised tripe like downton abbey a bit differently.

But what great wealth, acquired roughly before the 18th century, has its origin in means that would be deemed just and moral today?

The answer is none.

Moreover, there was slavery all throughout human history so to keep raising the salience of British involvement in slavery is to completely miss the historical context; there is nothing remarkable about the British being involved in the slave trade, what is remarkable, however, is the British stamping it out and that includes the Arab/Muslim slave trade which bought and sold more slaves, for longer, than the Atlantic slave trade.

WTF does BLM have to do with communism?

You should probably research causes before lending your support.

But it’s simultaneously completely uninteresting and the most important thing ever to Scoff…I don’t think he’s going to read anything you know…

Schrodinger’s History?

But what great wealth, acquired roughly before the 18th century, has its origin in means that would be deemed just and moral today?

The answer is none.

Here’s a radical idea: present the relevant information (and the source of the family’s wealth is clearly relevant) and let people make their own minds up. You can ignore it and the rest of us can learn something.

AGM booklet with resolutions and candidates

I couldn’t find any that were pro-bike.

what is remarkable, however, is the British stamping it out

Have you read the NT report on slavery and colonialism that kicked off this manufactured argument you’ve found yourself engaged with (but which you claim to find not at all interesting)? It included properties where the history of the abolitionists could usefully be told as part of their story.

Schrodinger’s History?

Infra vs meta.

I would qualify that by saying the history of slave rebellions and possibly the logistics and scale of the trade could be interesting, but the bare bones of it; that the British participated in a slave trade is nothing historically remarkable. It’s normal.

What I’m criticising now is the meta of the ‘slavification’ of British history where slavery becomes front and centre, saturating, etc.

Utter nonsense. The National Trust, and others, are seeking to include elements of the history of their properties (and the families connected to them) that for too long were glossed over. Well, if by “front and centre” you mean “not hidden away and forgotten”, then perhaps some of what you complain about is happening… why that is a problem for you is what we’d really like to know. Why hide this essential part of the history of the properties the NT look after? Why do you want that to happen?

The answer is none.

Which in itself is worth recognising and making sure people understand the downsides of the historical houses.

however, is the British stamping it out and that includes the Arab/Muslim slave trade which bought and sold more slaves, for longer, than the Atlantic slave trade.

Hence why the NT as part of its report also acknowledged those which were associated with abolition. Its like they wanted to make sure they werent giving a biased view although, sadly, for some locations any honest account is going to be pretty damning.

Could you give some examples of what you find so offensive since everyone else still seems to be drawing a blank about how the NT are pushing it.

You’re wasting your time asking the troll for examples

What I’m criticising now is the meta of the ‘slavification’ of British history where slavery becomes front and centre, saturating, etc.

But the point is that it should be front and centre, it’s a huge part of the British aristocracy and where they got too.

properties where the history of the abolitionists could usefully be told as part of their story

Some suggested trips for you cakescoffer…

https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/peckover-house-and-garden/features/the-peckovers-of-wisbech
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/mount-stewart/features/steeped-in-history

You’re wasting your time asking the troll for examples

I know but it is funny seeing what rubbish they come up with next to avoid its just a need to be outraged and feel victimised thats driving them and not any sensible objections.

Judging by many of the other threads that i_scoff_cake has been vocal on, I don’t think it’s trolling.

it’s a huge part of the British aristocracy and where they got too.

It still reaches us now Richard Drax still owns the sugar plantation in Barbados that his ancestors were paid £4,000 in the 19th C for loss of his salves, where it’s estimated that 30,000 died.

 that the British participated in a slave trade is nothing historically remarkable. It’s normal.

so that’s Ok then…nothing to see here.

so to keep raising the salience of British involvement

You couldn’t understand why someone in a historic building might want to read about its history, now you can’t understand why British involvement in something might be relevant in Britain?

What I’m criticising now is the meta of the ‘slavification’ of British history where slavery becomes front and centre, saturating, etc.

Once more with feeling,

It isn’t.

(though as someone else said, it arguably should be)

@Cougar

These arguments are simply a fear of losing white superiority.

You use cultural Marxist terms but seem surprised that BLM is communist?

You probably shouldn’t have eaten that cake Alice…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory

@nickc

We can trace a lot of land ownership in the UK to the Norman conquest too. Are we going to have a ‘reckoning’ with that? The harrying of the North was not pleasent.

You use cultural Marxist terms but seem surprised that BLM is communist?

I wouldn’t know anything about either of those things, so I have no idea what you’re talking about I’m afraid.

In any case, yes, of course a random example I pulled out of my arse was absolutely the crux of that post.