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  • National Trust Vs Right Wing Restore Trust
  • Premier Icon eskay
    Full Member

    Interesting read.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/13/national-trust-warns-of-threat-from-ideological-campaign-waged-against-it

    If you are a member you can still cast a vote, information on how to vote and recommendations here:

    https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/features/annual-general-meeting

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    voted yesterday. each candidate standing for election has space for a small bio so that you can read who they are, and what they’ve done in the past and so forth. Not one of the candidates of Restore Trust use the space to announce their involvement in that organisation.

    Which says something to me, at least.

    Premier Icon jimfrandisco
    Free Member

    Haven’t voted yet, but intend to this week.

    Not one of the candidates of Restore Trust use the space to announce their involvement in that organisation.

    You’re right, says everything.

    Being ‘woke’ at the national trust amounts to just recognising the true history of some of these properties, not ‘cancelling Britishness’.
    These people are clearly too spineless to actually reveal that their motive is to keep history nice and white washed.

    Premier Icon grum
    Full Member

    Did you see that some supporters of the Restore Trust are using the hashtag #empirestrikesback on twitter 🤦‍♂️

    Premier Icon mrmonkfinger
    Free Member

    So, what, they’re Palpatine and the forces of Darth Vader?

    Premier Icon grum
    Full Member

    Sounds about right

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Full Member

    Haven’t read it ,who is the most bike friendly?

    Premier Icon johnners
    Free Member

    Not one of the candidates of Restore Trust use the space to announce their involvement in that organisation.

    Yes, it seems odd that Stephen Green doesn’t mention it in his diatribe/supporting statement. His spiel is an absolute gem, if any of the other 45 candidates hold similar views they’re being a lot more circumspect about it.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    Stephen Green is the leader of Christian Voice he’s been accused  by his former wife of (amongst other things)  domestic abuse. Seems an ideal candidate, and a lovely bloke…

    Premier Icon jimfrandisco
    Free Member

    Restore Trust list which candidates they back as below…so makes it very easy to know exactly who to avoid.

    Michael Goodhart

    Stephen Green

    Min Grimshaw

    David Pearson

    Andrew Powles

    Guy Trehane

    Premier Icon Richie_B
    Full Member

    45 candidates hold similar views they’re being a lot more circumspect about it.

    The countryside alliance tried pulled a similar trick years ago trying to reverse the ban on hunting on NT land. Their candidates on the whole didn’t announce their real agenda either.

    The NT are starting to integrate the interests of multiple user groups into the management of their land but it’s a slow process.

    Premier Icon jimfrandisco
    Free Member

    Stephen Green also lobbied against the marital rape legislation – so comes as no surprise he doesn’t want the trust to focus on the history of female oppression and the suffragettes.

    Premier Icon grum
    Full Member

    Wow he’s a real piece of work eh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Voice_(UK)

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Full Member

    From Wiki:

    After the appearance of Green on Question Time in September 2005

    Wow. Not exactly due diligence on the part of the producers there.

    Basically the UK equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church given a national audience.

    Premier Icon i_scoff_cake
    Free Member

    Being ‘woke’ at the national trust amounts to just recognising the true history of some of these properties, not ‘cancelling Britishness’.

    Not everyone agrees with the constant focus on the ills of the Atlantic slave trade and colonialism. The politicisation of the NT if you like.

    Premier Icon grum
    Full Member

    Wow. Not exactly due diligence on the part of the producers there.

    Well…

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ourbeeb/is-question-time-s-audience-producer-really-fascist/

    The politicisation of the NT if you like.

    Funny world we are in where telling the truth in a balanced way is seen as politicisation.

    Premier Icon onewheelgood
    Full Member

    Not everyone agrees with the constant focus on the ills of the Atlantic slave trade and colonialism. The politicisation of the NT if you like.

    It’s not political to be asking that the history we are presented with is fair and balanced. It’s not political to point out that people who were honoured and enriched were also responsible for the slaughter and enslavement of hundreds of thousands of human beings. It’s not political to want to be able to point out to visitors that the beautiful houses and gardens they enjoy were paid for by theft and plunder and with the lives of innocent victims.

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Full Member

    Not everyone agrees with the constant focus on the ills of the Atlantic slave trade and colonialism

    Aside from that isnt really the case is it? They havent painted over the properties with “brought with proceeds from slave trade” but are simply acknowledging how those properties were funded.

    The politicisation of the NT if you like.

    By accurately reporting what happened? The ones politicising it are those demanding that only their whitewashed version of history is acceptable.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    Not everyone agrees with the constant focus on the ills of the Atlantic slave trade and colonialism.

    Sure but when a good percentage of the buildings in your care were built using the proceeds of businesses that used slavery, were compensated hugely when slavery was abolished allowing them to buy more land (and enclose it) and otherwise generally wouldn’t exist…You owe it to people to help them understand that don’t you?

    The history of most of Britain’s stately home stock is indelibly and inextricably linked with slavery, it’s amiss not to tell the story of that.

    Premier Icon i_scoff_cake
    Free Member

    but are simply acknowledging how those properties were funded.

    And what possible difference does that make to anyone?

    The ‘woke-turn’ of the NT also goes further than highlighting colonial links; staff who didn’t want to wear rainbow badges being taken off visitor-facing duties and staff are being forced to undergo ‘unconscious bias’ training.

    Premier Icon Houns
    Full Member

    Utter bollocks, any evidence of that?

    Premier Icon i_scoff_cake
    Free Member

    The history of most of Britain’s stately home stock is indelibly and inextricably linked with slavery, it’s amiss not to tell the story of that.

    The thing is that prior to the abolition of slavery there was nothing particularly unusual about it. It was normal for millennia and made people of all ethnicities suffer.

    So why do these links need highlighting to visitors who just want to enjoy a day out?

    Premier Icon lunge
    Full Member

    You have to remember for a lot of these people, these land owners (Churchill is a prime example) are their hero’s, they adore them and what they stand for. So when someone comes round and say that not only are they not a heroic as you’d like, we’re also going to tell people about it, it get their goat somewhat.

    Think of them as like Lance Armstrong fans prior to the Oprah interview…

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    And what possible difference does that make to anyone?

    That they go away from their day out a wee bit more educated than when they went in? Scary thought I know…

    Premier Icon i_scoff_cake
    Free Member

    That they go away from their day out a wee bit more educated than when they went in? Scary thought I know…

    Perhaps the NT should give them maths lessons too?

    Premier Icon mrlebowski
    Free Member

    staff are being forced to undergo ‘unconscious bias’ training.

    Exactly how is this a bad thing?

    Premier Icon rossburton
    Full Member

    Note that Min Grimshaw is one of the Restore Trust plants and also in the committee’s recommendations, so don’t just copy what they suggested.

    Premier Icon jamescarters
    Full Member

    So why do these links need highlighting to visitors who just want to enjoy a day out?

    So just remove all references to the history all together or only the ones that make you uncomfortable?

    Premier Icon Houns
    Full Member

    Still waiting on the evidence …..

    Premier Icon grum
    Full Member

    staff are being forced to undergo ‘unconscious bias’ training.

    And what’s wrong with that exactly?

    Premier Icon mrlebowski
    Free Member

    Tempted to join the NT just to vote against RT – Stephen Green sounds thoroughly unpleasant to put it mildly..

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Full Member

    So why do these links need highlighting to visitors who just want to enjoy a day out?

    If they just want to enjoy a day out then they dont need to bother reading the informational boards and leaflets etc.
    If they do want to do so though isnt it best that they get to find out the bad as well as the good about the buildings?

    Premier Icon i_scoff_cake
    Free Member

    And what’s wrong with that exactly?

    Firstly, I’m uncomfortable with the idea that my subconscious is the business of my employer. Secondly, the unconscious bias training itself is scientifically worthless.

    Premier Icon grum
    Full Member

    Firstly, I’m uncomfortable with the idea that my subconscious is the business of my employer.

    When you’re expected to deal with members of the public of various races equitably as a core part of your job, why on earth not?

    Secondly, the unconscious bias training itself is scientifically worthless.

    According to who? You know about the specific details of this training? Or is it just a more general ‘woke panic’ because liberals made me feel bad?

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    If they just want to enjoy a day out then they dont need to bother reading the informational boards and leaflets etc.

    This.

    “I actively want to know about the history of this place… no not THAT history”

    I tend to skip reading anything, and take pictures of the period wallpaper. Except in the kitchens… I get properly drawn into how they were run and how things were done there.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Free Member

    And what possible difference does that make to anyone?

    Quite a bit, seeing as Restore Trust are in a lather over it. I’m sure there are reasons why they’re so exercised by giving the public accurate information.

    Premier Icon grum
    Full Member

    Conservative MPs are concerned that the Trust has been being too political.

    Sir John Hayes, Conservative MP for South Holland and the Deepings, accused the Trust of not understanding its own purpose.

    Hayes highlighted the Trust’s role in preserving beauty, and said: “Beauty, because it is the exemplification of truth, is the most important thing to which we should all aspire. In beauty, we begin to have sight of the Lord.

    Um…… 🤦‍♂️

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    Except in the kitchens…

    Weird isn’t it, go into any stately home and you’ll be shown where the staff worked and lived and you can see exactly the divide between rich and poor, the separate staircases, the teeny rooms, …but goodness, happen to mention where  the people who own the house got the fabulous wealth from…nope, beyond the pale

    Premier Icon timmys
    Full Member

    Min Grimshaw

    I voted a few days ago and admit to f**ing it up as I couldn’t find a list of the “Restore Trust” idiots at the time. Mr Green was easy to spot, but other than that I and hoped by voting for a woman of non-English background I’d be avoiding any others.

    I guess I totally “Priti Patel-ed” myself there.

    Premier Icon johnners
    Free Member

    I voted a few days ago and admit to f**ing it up as I couldn’t find a list of the “Restore Trust” idiots at the time. Mr Green was easy to spot, but other than that I and hoped by voting for a woman of non-English background I’d be avoiding any others.

    If the RT thing is the most important issue to you then I understand you being miffed she didn’t mention it, though maybe it’s not a hugely important issue to her? Since the rest of her statement was compelling enough for you to pick her over 39 others she’s maybe not the worst choice ever – I mean it’s not like you voted for Stephen Green, is it?

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