My first! AND I've the paper to prove it.

As above, not all fixed penalty notices are endorsable (points on your licence), there are a whole host of offences for which a £30 fine can be issued, including those relating to pedal cycles. Endorsable FPNs tend to be for the more serious offences that wouldn’t necessarily be dealt with by means of arrest or reporting the person on summons, things like speeding, jumping red lights, contravening directional road signs etc.

I stop at all red lights because I wish to be treated as a vehicle so I have decided to act like one

There, may be, the rub. I don’t consider myself to be a vehicle and there are times during my commute where I might venture through a red*, hop on or off the footpath**/verge/central reservation as I see fit.

*The red lights are usually at 6ish and there’s usually no traffic as far as the eye can see in all four directions and of course, I look before I leap.
**Past the Nick most mornings.

Therefore the punishment needs to apply to anyone who can ride a bike, not just those who can ride a bike and have a driving license.

You can be given points on a license even if you don’t have one, apparently it gets applied to your license as soon as you get one (should you do so) but the usual expiry of them applies also. Unless the TV programme I was watching on just this point had it all wrong.

I’m not sure about the laws regarding red light jumping on a bike not being punishable as it’s not a vehicle, I think you’d have a hard job proving that and it’d cost you more than a £30 fine. Unless you’re unemployed and sat at home bored most of the time.

Personally I have no problem using the roads properly

You can get points even if you don’t have a licence – for driving offences eg driving without insurance. Not for bike based offences.

I’m still waiting to be pointed to a case where a ‘bicycle’ was determined to be within the meaning of the word ‘vehicle’.

Taylor is a case which equates bicycles with carriages – but predates the creation of specific offences relating to riding of bicycles (which actually is the mischief that the case was trying to address).

Since you can’t actually give me the name of a case where a court determined that a bicycle is a vehicle for the purposes of s36 of the RTA 1988, your point that “courts have done so with equivalent cases in the past” doesn’t have any weight.

I continue to wait to be referred to a case (or piece of legislation) which determines that ‘vehicle’ includes ‘bicycle’. I know you can’t point to it, because it doesn’t exist. You can search Westlaw, or NexisLexis, or Bailii all you want. It’s not there.

BTW I’m not wasting any of my money, because I don’t RLJ. And it’s not really much of a one-man crusade, given that others on here appear to agree with me. Suggests more of a ‘arguments on both sides’ kinda thing, really?

The only way you can get points on your car licence when you are on a pedal cycle is if you are riding a bike and equiped for stealing a car. That is it.

Complete nonsense.

What is complete nonsense?

And I don’t propose to turn into this guy, either 😆

Points on licence.

Perhaps complete nonsense was a bit harsh. But the punishment available (of several) is a discretionary disqualification which I would suggest is only used for repeat offenders.

UT50 aggravated taking of a vehicle – points
UT20 – Stealing Or Attempting To Steal A Vehicle – Ban,
UT30 – Going Equipped For Stealing Or Taking A Vehicle – Ban,

Not actually anything to do with the pedal cycle though in fairness.

Wht if you use the bike as a weapon or are using the bike when you’re stealing a car? Pretty much like I said initially.

If they share the *rights* to the road, they share the *responsibilities*. Stopping at a red light is one of those. Opting in and out moment by moment as it suits isn’t on.

Not quite as simple as that.

It was touched on earlier in the thread that our roads are not designed to cater for cyclists. Whether the laws apply to us or not, almost all traffic calming measures were put in place to control motorised vehicles. Cyclists have more in common with pedestrians than the two ton, fast moving Meccano© sets they share the road with.

Cyclists are expected to ride in the gutter wherever possible, and give way to bigger machinery on the approach to pinch points, yet frowned upon when they cautiously wheel through a red light.

The trouble with equal rights, and more importantly equal rules, is that it couldn’t be more unequal when those rules were designed to cater for everyones’ needs but yours.

And this is one of the reasons I’m not dead against RLJing. In instances of pedestrians being made to feel unsafe (and sometimes hurt), I can agree completely…there’s some cheb ends out there, and not just on the road, I see it on trails too (I can imagine what the big city is like on a Monday morning!). Something needs to be done about that. But the moment you say, ‘OK, you’re right, that’s completely wrong’. You are saying that it’s OK to be bound by a set of rules that are perhaps to the detriment of your own welfare. And by chastising others for it, you are strengthening the opinion that we share the same ‘rights to the road’ and the same ‘responsibilities’. The same rules. Coming from a cyclist, that is taken as confirmation. All those guys are selfish p****s, an unfathomably scummy form of man. Which reflects back on yourself, because you’ll be binding yourself to a set of rules that will never work.

It needs to be understood that the needs of those navigating high powered vehicles and those pedalling bikes are very different.

Once we can get to a point where we’re thinking, ‘hang on, let’s stop this petty slap on the wrist s**t and work out how we can all get along together’, then we can start making progress.

Cyclists are expected to ride in the gutter wherever possible, and give way to bigger machinery on the approach to pinch points, yet frowned upon when they cautiously wheel through a red light.

No – they are not.

A cyclist can not be given points on his licence for a red light. A red light is contrary to section 36 of the RTA 1988.

The penalties are as per schedule 2 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988. This sets out for all traffic offences the method of prosecution, level of fines, and whether disqualification and endorsement apply.

For RTA 1988 S36 disqualification/endorsment only apply to offences

committed in respect of a motor vehicle

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/schedule/2

Anybody who got points on their driving licence for a cycling offence had a crap lawyer.

No – they are not.

I speak of the masses. Not of the law.

Glupton the legislation makes no mention of a bike. I could say you get points on your licence for commiting the offence of going equipped wearing a green hat, it’s irrelevant. You stated that riding a bike whilst going equipped to steal meant you could get points on your licence. Insinuating that riding the bike is part of the offence. It isn’t. Therefore not pretty much like you said. Sorry. And going equipped with a bike or a bike as an intended weapon??? Good luck proving that in court.

WUNUNDRED!!!!

Kudos Druidh – possibly the best post of the thread ;).

Yawn.

I agree with butcher. I would also add the lights controlled by sensors that dont go off for bikes. My road club has a very strict set of guidlines re red lights which is fair enough. But the sight of 15 people stopped at red lights that wouldnt change for 5-10 mins was one of the funniest things i’ve see. Some even suggested turning round. I also used to live down a road that had lights on a sensor. It had no exit at one end( unless you wanted to swim the Thames) and a red light that wouldnt change till a car came at the other. What should i have done?

I commuted in London for years on a bike. I always hopped off and pushed across the road as a pedestrian if there was a red where I clearly didn’t need to stop. Then at the other side hopped back on and rode off. Seemed a sensible solution, to me anyway.

Surely as a cyclist he doesn’t pay road tax so can ignore all road signs?

I am sure i read something like that on the internet once

And by chastising others for it, you are strengthening the opinion that we share the same ‘rights to the road’ and the same ‘responsibilities’

But the fact remains that the rights and responsibilities ARE the same.

EDIT:

Well the rights are different (cyclists don’t need a license) but teh responsibilities to obey red lights, road markings, signs, etc are the same

I went through loads of red lights in my car yesterday, will I have my pushbikes taken off me?

andymc06 – Member

You can get a £30 fine (non-endorsable) on a pedal cycle for failing to comply with a traffic sign (including lights).

Yeah, I noticed.

Last night, over my 20-mile commute from Wapping to Leatherhead, I stopped at every single red light. I noticed that it didn’t take any longer to do the distance than when I was RLJ-ing to try and make it quicker…