My dear old things, it's STW TMS!

The keeper problem stems from a time of having excellent keepers who could bat. Stewart, Russell.

Now, we have sort of all rounders who can keep wicket a bit. Proper work behind the sticks is more important than a middle order batsman.

Stewart was a batter who could keep. Russell was a brilliant keeper whose batting was a bit ‘meh’ if I’m honest – could hold an end up but nowhere near Stewart or Bairstow (or Buttler, or Geraint Jones, or Matt Prior).

I’d stick with YJB, tbh, he’s still learning the way and his runs are worth a huge amount currently.

Stewart was not a great keeper. He did an admirable job for a long time, but Russell was brilliant – but pretty crap with the bat. England tried a few in Stewart’s time – Steve Rhodes being one, but no one ever quite bridged the gap between Stewart and Russell. Ian Healy was another one whose batting was of irritant value more than consistent runs. Apart from one (or two) notable exceptions (below), I can’t think of many keepers who have truly been equally good in either discipline.

The Daddy has to be Gilchrist. What a keeper and what a batsman. Andy Flower also.

Gilchrist clearly is the best, not least for the damage he could do (although Bairstow and Buttler are not bad on the mayhem stakes either)

I can’t think of many keepers who have truly been equally good in either discipline.

Sangakkara could do both pretty well.

It’s worth noting that Gilchrist wasn’t that great a keeper at the start of his Test career – and YJB looks likely to match him with the bat (he’s already had a more successful year than Gilchrist ever did).

True, but that’s already a bit of a stats anomaly and likely to become bigger.

YJB has passed Flower’s record in 2 more test matches (11 to 9 iirc) and if he stays fit and selected has 6 more to come!! Could well be on for 1400 by the time the year’s up.

Stats anomaly because of the number of tests? Gilchrist had years with more tests (and innings) than YJB has currently played and never got anywhere near (though by the end of the year assuming he plays all the tests YJB will be second on the list of most tests a keeper has played in and almost certainly the most innings). If you mean for other reasons, then you still have to score the runs.

If he keeps up his current average of almost 100 runs per test (which he was pretty much spot on in the last test), then he’s going to be approaching Mohammad Yousuf’s absolute record.

The problem with this team is the batters. For what seems like years they’ve been carrying at least a couple who are either new and being given a fair chance or old and out of form. When the others all do well then the team scores big but when they don’t they score low which then puts pressure on the bowlers.

Gilchrist had years with more tests (and innings) than YJB has currently played

I can’t find his year by year numbers, only season by season, but you’re right that he will have had years with a similar number of tests. Whether there were as many innings mind; my recollection is either of the Aussies winning in one innings or one and a bit and a glance down his numbers seem to bear this out, he only batted about 75% of the time available to him (10 tests = 20 inns and he’d bat in 15) and he probably had a few ones with little to do in them as well.

Whereas with England’s top order, YJB isn’t short of opportunities 😉

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;keeper=1;orderby=runs;template=results;type=batting;view=year

3 years where he had more innings than YJB has currently. Of course stats aren’t everything and clearly sometimes Gilchrist came in to bash it around and whilst YJB doesn’t hang around he’s more often than not had to stick around to rebuild the innings this year.

cripes, he was shit in 2004 😉

What a turnaround. All out for under 250?

What a morning of test cricket!

its a game of two halves this one 😉

Sick as a parrot, Ron.

At the end of the day they will be all out

Bangladesh, are you England in disguise?

Dharmasena having another good game??

Dharmasena having another good game??

Doesn’t he always? 😉

49/9 to knock them off. Bangladesh were in a very good position at 171/1

Reckon england may balls this up still, they’ve got it in them. 3 down by close

England have avoided the follow on

I think England’s positivity is the way to go. Just defend against the fizzing new ball you are a sitting duck.

This is carnage!

50/3 at stumps. Sometimes I hate being right 🙁

I like Balance for Yorkshire, but his Eng record is a little bit poo in the last year

Who else can come in to that slot?

Sometimes I hate being right

Please keep away from the thread until the end of the test. Thanks

Sorry. I was trying to double-jinx it, not straight up jinx it

Hameed seems the obvious choice. Though there’s always the option of shoving them all up a slot, having Bairstow play as a specialist bat and maybe getting Foakes in (you’d think he could score as many as Ballance and might save a few behind the stumps).

Sadly, the answer was James Taylor. Such a shame.

Oh dear.

Chin up, they’re making a bit of a fightback.

It’s a good job the tail starts at 11

😆

Agree Dantsw13

The debate about keepers is an interesting one, given just about every international team of the last 10 years would sacrifice glovesmanship for an average >35

Feel we should have tried the young Lancs opener, left out Ballance and nudged Duckett to 3 or 4. Given stated objective was rotation, they’d have lost nothing and had another shot at solving a problem that’s existed almost since Strauss retired

Enjoying the Bangladesh tests, not enjoying TMS when Dan Norcross is on – never stops talking, doesn’t let anyone else, even Andrew and his stats. Please no more, send him back to his sofa.

I think some of the second string TMS commentators try too hard to be TMS. At least Simon Mann isn’t there. I like Ebony, she sounds like she’d be good fun. Anyway it was all doom and gloom at first light but all is well…. for now.

A day like today and a 100 in that session and you want to discuss the commentators and not the cricket?

Excellent days play that probably took the game from the home side assuming their is no batting capitulation

200 to win is very doable

TMS is as much about the waffling as the actual cricket!

Quite a day of play so far though. Strong batting for an opening session.

TMS can be about the waffling and sometimes the tales are better than the cricket; that is not this session

TBH i have missed loads due to the times its on so cannot really comment on how much poorr it is

IMHO people just dislike change as we have all grown so fond of the old stalwarts it’s like someone has tried to replace your favourite uncle

Oh I like Dan Norcross

Daggers and Ebs are good value at the moment.

Shame the batting isn’t! Mini collapse.