"Muslim" terrorists attack French magazine in Paris

Junkyard – even a leftie hand wringer like you cannot possibly argue that a woman is equal to a man under Sharia? Please go ahead and try!

Are women equal to men in the Beth Din courts we already have in this country?

I have no time for the idea of Sharia law in this country BTW – however, those assuming that it necessarily implies chopping off hands etc are getting it wrong, again. Unsurprisingly, there are many different interpretations and versions of Sharia law.

I don’t particularly like the idea of any of them, but I know very little about them. I suspect I know more than most of the people getting outraged about them though.

gobuchul Don’t you recognise a rhetorical question.

Crying political correctness gone mad is the weak tactic most frequently used by bigots to try and claim that they aren’t allowed to be bigots.

Who mentioned political correctness?…i’m in favour of anybody saying anything they like, i was brought up to believe that ‘sticks and stones….’

The problem i have is that people get far too shirty about mere words, the screams of racist if somebody wants to talk about immigration etc are boring and childish…free speech has to work in every direction or its no longer free speech, you cant just have free speech (but only if it suits the law makers and political elite of the time)….its either all or nothing.

There is a famous phrase which sums up my feelings:

Although i may despise what you have to say, i would defend to the death your right to say it.

….thats all i want, a country where that is always the case.

Thankfully this country is still like that but there are plenty of places around the world where it isnt….and what i dont want is a religious doctrine, or an ethnic group, or immigrants (of any colour) from places like that who would wish to stifle debate and restrict free speech because it ‘offends’ them…or some fictitious fairy in the clouds they believe in.

Really religion has no place in the modern world anymore.

The idea of areas of the country where a “special” version of the law exists is reprehensible.

As a Muslim born and bred in this country Ime really puzzled about this sharia law claim.please elaborate and give examples of sharia law active in the UK.

Are women equal to men in the Beth Din courts we already have in this country?

I doubt it. However, I am certain that it is not as cut and dried as 2 to 1 as it is with Sharia.

gobuchul Don’t you recognise a rhetorical question.

Yes and that wasn’t one.

The problem i have is that people get far too shirty about mere words, the screams of racist if somebody wants to talk about immigration etc are boring and childish…free speech has to work in every direction or its no longer free speech, you cant just have free speech (but only if it suits the law makers and political elite of the time)….its either all or nothing.

Does free speech not extend to calling people racists if you think they are racists? Sounds like you are the one wanting to stifle debate. I don’t know if you’ve noticed but Nigel Farage isn’t exactly being ‘stifled’ right now.

FWIW I think it ought to be possible to have concerns about immigration and religion without being branded racist – it’s just unfortunate that lots of the people that do are actual racists or at the very least come out with ignorant bigoted misinformation they’ve read in the Sun/heard down the pub.

As a Muslim born and bred in this country Ime really puzzled about this sharia law claim.please elaborate and give examples of sharia law active in the UK.

Not sure anyone has claimed they are active – just that many muslims would like them to be.

As a Muslim born and bred in this country Ime really puzzled about this sharia law claim.please elaborate and give examples of sharia law active in the UK.

Officially?….thankfully none exist.

Unofficially?…5 men were arrested and 3 sentenced to prison for patrolling the area of London they lived in and trying to harrass people into behaving in a way they felt was more appropriate, they termed their patrols as Modesty Patrols or some other hogwash…they harrassed people who were holding hands, drinking alcohol, women with flesh uncovered etc….lovely chaps of course, just what i’m sure we’d all like to see going nationwide.

the screams of racist if somebody wants to talk about immigration

No one has screamed racist at anyone No one has asked anyone to stop talking about immigration

Grum you listen to people and you look at media/social media it sounds like we’re living in a sharia state. Take it from me the bulk of Muslims don’t know what sharia is

Going off topic…………

Errrrr…… De Facto, a lot of this country is beyond the effective control of the law, and it is not going to get better soon. You only have to look at how MPs ignore criminal legislation and get away with it, to know that’s true, never minding all the ghettos where gun totting teenage gangsters rule, and unarmed British bobbies do not. And all for want of cracking a few heads….. on a discriminating basis of course!

Going back on topic…..

I never was very curious to see a cartoon of a naked Prophet Mohamed. Now I am vaguely curious to see it…..maybe painted on the side of Buckingham Palace.

There is no parallel here as we are not discussing Powell Vs Farage etc. We are on the topic of those using AK47 … Do you see Powell and Farage using AK47?

Intelligent debate? More like twisted logic that is based on pure hatred of certain politicians. Are you so weak you cannot even handle Farage or the like?

Yes, perhaps I am too simple to express my views differently but am I wrong in my summing up of my views on those?

The parallel was between the posters views and those of Farage.

Farage has nothing really to do with it, I only included him for the above reason. Could you explain the twisted logic or is it just because you clearly don’t understand what I was saying?

In my opinion, yes.

De Facto, a lot of this country is beyond the effective control of the law…

Reporting from tribal Pakistan?

There’s no such thing as unofficial deviant . Ime not saying that there isn’t Muslims who make these hogwash claims of course there is. The repatriation of soldiers bodies being abused and claims of flags flying over Downing St , we’ve all seen the behaviour of those on the fringes but To claim that 40% want sharia law ..nah.

the Christian take on the role of women…

“I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”

Genesis 3:16

for a bit of balance like

lalazar – Member
As a Muslim born and bred in this country Ime really puzzled about this sharia law claim.please elaborate and give examples of sharia law active in the UK.

I believe there are areas of Luton where there are signs on the lamp posts saying this is a Sharia law zone and is effectively controlled as such.

For those claiming Islam is peaceful I give you some verses. It’s in French but I’m sure you can look up the verses in English with the numbers:

a) Appels au meurtre dans le coran :

[2:191] Et tuez-les, où que vous les rencontriez; et chassez-les d’où ils vous on chassés : l’association est plus grave que le meurtre. Mais ne les combattez pas près de la mosquée sacrée avant qu’ils ne vous y aient combattus. S’ils vous y combattent, tuez-les donc. Telle est la rétribution des mécréants.

[4:89] Ils aimeraient vous voir mécréants comme ils ont mécru : alors vous seriez tous égaux ! Ne prenez donc pas d’alliés parmi eux, jusqu’à ce qu’ils émigrent dans le sentier d’Allah. Mais s’ils tournent le dos, saisissez-les alors, et tuez-les où que vous les trouviez ; et ne prenez parmi eux ni allié ni secoureur.

[4:91] Vous en trouverez d’autres qui cherchent à avoir votre confiance, et en même temps la confiance de leur propre tribu. Toutes les fois qu’on les pousse vers l’association (l’idolâtrie) ils y retombent en masse. (Par conséquent,) s’ils ne restent pas neutres à votre égard, ne vous offrent pas la paix et ne retiennent pas leurs mains (de vous combattre), alors, saisissez-les et tuez-les où que vous les trouviez. Contre ceux-ci, Nous vous avons donné une autorité manifeste.

[5:33] La récompense de ceux qui font la guerre contre Allah et Son messager, et qui s’efforcent de semer la corruption sur la terre, c’est qu’ils soient tués, ou crucifiés, ou que soient coupées leur main et leur jambe opposées, ou qu’ils soient expulsés du pays. Ce sera pour eux l’ignominie ici-bas ; et dans l’au-delà, il y aura pour eux un énorme châtiment.

[8:12] Et ton Seigneur révéla aux anges: « Je suis avec vous : affermissez donc les Croyants. Je vais jeter l’effroi dans les coeurs des mécréants. Frappez donc au-dessus des cous (décapitation) et frappez-les sur tous les bouts des doigts.

[8:17] Ce n’est pas vous qui les avez tués : mais c’est Allah qui les a tués. Et lorsque tu lançais (une poignée de terre), ce n’est pas toi qui lançais : mais c’est Allah qui lançait, et ce pour éprouver les croyants d’une belle épreuve de Sa part ! Allah est Audient et Omniscient. Autrement dit c’est l’absolution par avance pour un meurtrier pour peu qu’il tue un infidèle au nom d’Allah.

[9:5] Après que les mois sacrés expirent, tuez les associateurs où que vous les trouviez. Capturez-les, assiégez-les et guettez-les dans toute embuscade. Si ensuite ils se repentent, accomplissent la Salât et acquittent la Zakát, alors laissez-leur la voie libre, car Allah est Pardonneur et Miséricordieux.

[17:33] Et, sauf en droit, ne tuez point la vie qu’Allah a rendu sacrée.
Quiconque est tué injustement, alors Nous avons donné pouvoir à son proche [parent]. Que celui-ci ne commette pas d’excès dans le meurtre, car il est déjà assisté (par la loi). Donc selon le Coran il existe des raisons tout à fait valables, conformes au droit, de tuer.

[33:61] Ce sont des maudits. Où qu’on les trouve, ils seront pris et tués impitoyablement.

[47:4] Lorsque vous rencontrez (au combat) ceux qui ont mécru,frappez-en les cous (décapitation). Puis, quand vous les avez dominés, enchaînez-les solidement. Ensuite, c’est soit la libération gratuite, soit la rançon, jusqu’à ce que la guerre dépose ses fardeaux. Il en est ainsi, car si Allah voulait, Il se vengerait Lui-même contre eux, mais c’est pour vous éprouver les uns par les autres. Et ceux qui seront tués dans le chemin d’Allah, Il ne rendra jamais vaines leurs actions.

b) Haine contre les Juifs, les Chrétiens et les infidèles (dans le coran) :

[5:51] Ô les croyants! Ne prenez pas pour alliés les Juifs et les Chrétiens ; ils sont alliés les uns des autres. Et celui d’entre vous qui les prend pour alliés, devient un des leurs. Allah ne guide certes pas les gens injustes.

[9:30] Les Juifs disent : « Uzayr est fils d’Allah » et les Chrétiens disent : « Le Christ est fils d’Allah ». Telle est leur parole provenant de leurs bouches. Ils imitent le dire des mécréants avant eux. Qu’Allah les anéantisse ! Comment s’écartent-ils (de la vérité) ?

[5:14] Et de ceux qui disent: « Nous sommes Chrétiens », Nous avons pris leur engagement. Mais ils ont oublié une partie de ce qui leur a été rappelé. Nous avons donc suscité entre eux l’inimitié et la haine jusqu’au Jour de la Résurrection. Et Allah les informera de ce qu’ils faisaient.
Source:
Le Coran

Controlled by who mudmuncher ?

If the below link works its what one of my local mosques is putting out in relation to today’s attacks in Paris.
http://www.makkahmasjid.co.uk/wp/index.php/2015/01/07/attack-on-french-magazine-staff-condemned-prophet-muhammad-does-not-require-avenging/

For those claiming Islam is peaceful I give you some verses. It’s in French but I’m sure you can look up the verses in English with the numbers:

yeah Christianity is all about the love

I believe there are areas of Luton

ie. I’ve never been or seen it but Barry down the pub told me…

Religious nutjobs Ialazar

….and I would just like to add I have nothing specifically against Muslins. I think all religious people are slightly retarded

http://youtu.be/psZBaJU_Cvo

Ime sorry mudmuncher but ime with squirrelking. Just that I met a bloke from London up in the north and he was genuinley scared that all mosques were terror training centres not that he’d ever been in a mosque. Talking helps people it breaks down barriers does away with suspicion and its not hard to do.

Not sure anyone has claimed they are active – just that many muslims would like them to be.

Not in my experience…

Dreadful events today in Paris…

A candlelit vigil in Trafalgar square?

😳

Reports on guardian of three arrests . very quick work if true.

Grum you listen to people and you look at media/social media it sounds like we’re living in a sharia state. Take it from me the bulk of Muslims don’t know what sharia is

I was basing it on the 40% figure quoted above but I really have no idea how accurate that is.

Talking helps people it breaks down barriers does away with suspicion and its not hard to do.

I’ve been invited to attend a Sufi Muslim ceremony – should be interesting!

never though edukator was a fervent partisan of la flamme.

squirrelking – Member
I believe there are areas of Luton
ie. I’ve never been or seen it but Barry down the pub told me…

Ha, ha, close, it was “Barry” at work who went to Luton recently to watch the football and asked a copper where the pubs were who laughed and told him it was a sharia zone and there were no pubs in the center – probably should google this to check this is true.

lalazar – Member
Talking helps people it breaks down barriers does away with suspicion and its not hard to do.

Ialazar, you seem like an intelligent chap who speaks a lot of sense. I think with a bit of work we can upgrade you to atheism

I believe there are areas of Luton where there are signs on the lamp posts saying this is a Sharia law zone and is effectively controlled as such.

Eh?, you’re surely taking the piss with a statement like that.

Unofficially?…5 men were arrested and 3 sentenced to prison for patrolling the area of London they lived in and trying to harrass people into behaving in a way they felt was more appropriate, they termed their patrols as Modesty Patrols or some other hogwash…they harrassed people who were holding hands, drinking alcohol, women with flesh uncovered etc….lovely chaps of course, just what i’m sure we’d all like to see going nationwide.

Not the same. Not even close.

You take young men from one of the most deprived parts of London and put them in a situation where they see their future working in the local chicken shop or driving a minicab until the early hours, and then look surprised when they seize on something that provides them with a sense of purpose and belonging – ie, Islam.

Whether it’s peaceful Islam or the fundamentalist kill-the-non-believer version is neither here nor there in this example. It’s the fact that it provides a tiny oasis of stability in some pretty f*****-up lives.

The more we perceive “us and them” the more likely Sharia law (or derivatives) are likely to slide their way in. Not legally, of course, just existing behind the scenes through the disconnectedness of the different communities.

My 2p, anyway.

Not as depressing as reading about cartoonists being murdered by religious dickheads.

no, dickhead terrorists doing dickhead terroristy stuff is ****ing appalling reading.
Reading that a few here think the answer is to ban/deport/kill (delete as appropriate) all Muslims is depressing reading. Typical outgroup treatment that we all complain about when we’re the group in question.

I have a pretty poor opinion of religion in general but don’t start picking on one of them, scrap them all or keep them all,don’t cherry pick.

Edukator looking at those verse numbers their quite easy to identify as their always the ones thrown about on the net. The Quran is not a book that came about in one go.It was revealed and compiled over a course of 23 years. Many of its verses are relevant to specific events that took place.

So your first verse ;
And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

This was revealed in relation to Muslims seeking sanctuary in Medina after 13 years of tyranny and oppression in Mecca. Some escaped and others were expelled leaving behind all they had. Muslims then reestablished themselves in Medina which became the first Muslim city. The Meccans however weren’t content and took their armies to destroy Medina. Up until this point the Muslims had no authorituy to fight hence this verse was revealed giving them permission to fight those who fought them and expel those who expelled them.

Taken out of context you can take that verse and make what you want of it . Get the real background and you’ll see it for what it is.

Ha, ha, close, it was “Barry” at work who went to Luton recently to watch the football and asked a copper where the pubs were who laughed and told him it was a sharia zone and there were no pubs in the center – probably should google this to check this is true.

Not true, there are plenty of pubs in Luton town centre.

However, there are no pubs within the area around Kenilworth Rd (Luton’s stadium), which is very unusual for an old style English League Ground.

I like it mudmuncher but after 30 years in the wilderness I’ve found my way.

Nous sommes tous Charlie!

The Quran is not a book that came about in one go.It was revealed and compiled over a course of 23 years. Many of its verses are relevant to specific events that took place.

in common the other abrahamic guidebooks, the dodgy, violent, outdated and immoral stuff hasn’t been edited out of any of them tho.

But let’s not derail the thread with this guff.

Dunno about none Abrahamic religions texts, is eye for an eye/vengeance is mine first half followed by live and let live in the sequel a common theme?

Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

Jesus…be careful out there it is not a peaceful religion.

You can cherry pick from any religions and do this sort of stuff edukator and its not like you liked Islam before today.

I can only think Edukator quoted those verses in French, so that people wouldn’t instantly recognise them as the usual quoted-out-of-context pish. Won’t take the time to do every one but the very first, “Kill them wherever you find them” is preceded immediately by:

“Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.”

and is closed with

“But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.”

In short- “If someone attacks you, go forth and **** them up with my blessing. But once they’ve learned who they’re messing with, leave it, they’re not worf it and if you don’t stop hitting him we’re FINISHED!”

It’s exactly like suggesting that Winston Churchill would want you to go to the beach tomorrow and fight a german.

The increase of bare faced racism from seemingly intelligent forum contributors over the last 5 years is really **** depressing