Yes but it’s not ok to be racist. HTH.

I don’t see the racism in Charlie Hebdos cartoons. The context and intent isn’t there.

The word some of you are looking for is sectarianism. Hope that helps.

To be racist is to believe you are better than someone simply based on the fact you believe you are of a superior race than them.

Until there is scientific proof there is a god,
Peoples right to believe in god goes hand in hand with peoples right to say how ridicules such a belief is.

Religious people have the right to draw cartoons mocking my lack of faith, I am not allowed to shoot them,

Of course you don’t even need to draw a cartoon..
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2015/01/saudi-arabia-blogger-flogged-insulting-islam-20151911120952108.html

I think I remember yunki ordering a baby Jesus but plug, stone him.

I didn’t from you though 5th Elefant. Well done on an excellent point. I don’t think anyone had noticed that Saudi Arabia is a shit country before.

Very similar to the countries you objected to previously.

And added a smiley face to posting the fact.

We’re we not so hamstrung by well meaning but naive bunch of Islam apologists we could have prosecuted Abu Hamza 10 years ago and stopped him recruiting a generation a whole generation of murderers we are presently dealng with.

That was a mistake that shouldn’t be allowed to happen again.

The word some of you are looking for is sectarianism.

Nope, that’s what happens between subdivisions in a certain group, the correct word was already pointed out to be bigotry.

eg. Sunni vs Shia (Islamic), Protestant vs Catholic (Christian)

The clue is in the name: sectarianism

WTF, one dickhead in Finsbury Park is now responsible for all this?

Aye, okay then…

You guys are just suffering from a severe case of logic failure…

…the Vatican and by extension Islam has a far more prosperous and prestigious record of mayhem than the Nazi’s.

Really? I could see the point if you were talking about Stalin, Pol Pot or any other single person that ordered the wholesale murder of people on a genocidal scale but seriously?

I think it’s perhaps you that’s suffering from logic failure here.

Satire only works when it’s funny to the audience. If they laugh there was more than a grain of truth in the jest. Ridiculise the ridiculous.

Humour is one of the things that make our world good place to be. Dave Allen, Monty Python, Private eye, Charlie, Anne Roumanoff, Clarkson (yes even that a***), Coluche, Dieudonne, Florence Foresti, Gad, Franklin, Cantalou, spitting image, les guignols, Danny… . Do you really want to silence them?

Really? I could see the point if you were talking about Stalin, Pol Pot or any other single person that ordered the wholesale murder of people on a genocidal scale but seriously?

I think it’s perhaps you that’s suffering from logic failure here.

If we include the past 2000 years of history, then yes.

And you can’t even compare the Nazi’s anti-jewish posters to these cartoons. I would post images of some examples of each, deconstructing them and the intentions behind them but I don’t think that would be allowed.

Dave Allen,
Wonderful.
[video]http://youtu.be/mYXenjpefNU[/video]

The image above is in my son’s school history book. The seemingly banal headline resulted in Hara Kiri being banned. A week later Charlie Hebdo was launched. The freedom of the press is a French institution more important than the institutions themselves. After a few revolutions and an occupation attempts to silence the press don’t go down too well.

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/paris-and-beyond-europe-is-at-war-with-itself/16435#.VLAjxyusWHA

Good article, here’s an excerpt.

Cultural polarisation
The idea of the Islamisation of Europe is just as evasive as the official rhetoric of multiculturalism. The real threat facing Europe is not that of an external force or the irresistible attraction of Islam. The real problem is that the political and cultural elites of Europe are struggling to give contemporary meaning to their cultural and historical legacy. Europe’s embrace of multiculturalism has been inspired by a variety of different calculations. However, its principal driver has been European societies’ difficulty in providing their ways of life with positive and forward-looking values. Opting for the ‘multi’ has spared governments the difficult task of elaborating and upholding a common foundation for communal life.

Multiculturalism, then, has served as a form of political evasion. But it has also encouraged the destructive process of cultural segregation. Such segregation means that dialogue now only takes place within parallel communities. Not surprisingly, young people growing up within a community that is relatively untouched by the values of officialdom will have their views and prejudices affirmed and echoed by others. The pool of knowledge on which millions of young Muslims now draw is very different to that of other communities. But the emergence of views that run counter to those of the host society is rarely noticed by the media because there is no dialogue that transcends the multicultural divide.
The sentiments that drove thousands of European youths to fight in Syria have been produced by confusions and tensions generated in Europe. Opinion polls indicate that IS is supported by a far higher percentage of young Muslims in France and other parts of Europe than in the Middle East. That shows that the source of anti-Western sentiments should be located in Europe, not ‘over there’.

The chain of events that led to the massacre in Paris may well have been sparked off by a classroom discussion in the banlieus of Paris or Marseilles. Some pupils were no doubt certain that the Holocaust was a myth. And the defensive way their teachers dealt with their points would only have strengthened their conviction, itself informed by their older peers at home. Throughout their teenage years, their alienation from French society would have gained in force. They then encountered radical Islam, a medium to express their alienation, and the rest is history. But if Europe wakes up, this won’t necessarily be the future.

Religion cannot be compared with race. It’s a choice and as such I’m quite happy for it to be ridiculed. If some people are insulted sufficiently to cause crime, then they’re just criminals. Nothing more. Nothing less.
I’m firmly with Binners on this one.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Lebanon-News/2015/Jan-09/283552-takfiri-groups-offended-prophet-mohammad-more-than-the-cartoons-mocking-him.ashx

Glimmer of hope.

On the analysis front, it’s non-stop on French TV. To the above quote I’ll add the Sunnite/Shiite divide, with shiite states such as Iran offering support and sympathy to France.

Edit: Tom’s link is an example of Shiites slagging of Sunnites.

Edit: to add a link that makes it all clear Shiites at war with Sunnites condemn Charlie attack

I guess it could be construed that way. 😕

Irans message of support to France came with a message though.

I assume it would be either an idiotic idea to supply Shiites with lots of weaponry, upset Israel and/or upset the Saudis?

In a bit of a pickle aren’t we, to many factions at war with each other to pick one side and run with it. Probably shouldn’t have befriended the Saudis and pushed the Iranians into the arms of the Russians during the 20th century.

Befriending the Saudis and the 50/50 deal made the US what it is today. Demonising Iran after the fall of the Shah, funding and arming Saddam against Iran then isolating Iran were perhaps unwise moves.

Acting all offended has been raised to an art form by some on STW..

As has trolling and being not quite racist enough to get banned

Satire only works when it’s funny to the audience. If they laugh there was more than a grain of truth in the jest.

I dont doubt folk laugh at the satire images of Obama as a monkey I dont think this elevates them to having a grain of truth. There is a very fine line between satire and just mocking and /or just abusing something

I don’t think Charlies Hebdos cartoons are in the same league as the Obama-monkey cartoons or even the watermelon cartoon incident, the latter of which was actually defended by some of the black community, something that I never quite understood actually.

Viz have done it in style!

Back that “racist” accusation up with a quote, Junkyard. You normally litter your posts with them. Link a whole thread even. Perhaps one in which I put forward the French government view that covering one’s face in public is not acceptable whether it’s with a religious garment, or a scarf and hoodie. There are limits to what a secular state can tolerate.

I am not sure portraying black person as a monkey can be called “sailing close to the wind”. Its just racist.

You seem to have turned offence in to an art form there Edukator,

I would agree Junkyard, you know what I meant though.

Tom I dont think you are a racist; thick skinned like a rhino and pig headed Yes but racist , no 😉

Said with affection rather than malice to be clear.

tbh i have next to no French and the Charlie ones often seem to be just be offensive for the sake of it.
Naked prophet with a camera but I dont know what the captions mean.
I do get the intouchables one though as I have seen the film

I didn’t think you thought I was a racist – I’ve found this an interesting thread.

I change my opinions all the time anyway as I never really believe my own, let alone other peoples opinions. I think some of you know that my opinions can take wild swings from thread to thread, it depends on my mood and which side I feel like arguing for. The pig headed comment comes from the fact that I will then attempt to defend which side I pick at all costs.

I enjoy playing the contrarian.

I have the fortune or misfortune depending on view of believing what I say

One of the better debates on here on a complex issue with no completley satisfactory answer

Most of societies ills come from the fact that you often end up with competing rights and having to pick which to support and which to ignore.

This is interesting for me as I dont support either view fully and see that both have a point though of course killing folk is not the correct response.

Not offended, Junkyard, just asking you to back up a clearly directed insult (you quoted me and implied I’m a racist) with evidence. Perhaps you could make it clear as you have done to Tom:

Tom I dont think you are a racist

However Junkyard, when I place Nazi imagery next to Charlie Hebdo cartoons – it is really clear how much of a darker and nastier message the Nazi cartoons are portraying. There is no comparison IMO – I think some of the Charlie Hebdo cartoons are unfunny, in bad taste and sometimes inaccurate in their commentary. I don’t think they are incitements to hatred though and I do believe in the right to use scathing humor to question the validity of authority be they governments or religion and we have to accept that we won’t always like some of this humor if we find it unfunny, unhelpful or offensive. Think of this as satires equivalent to collateral damage.

In response to your thoughts on “killing the message” of radical Islam, I think we should combine some of the thoughts raised in that Spiked article into a coherent policy as a long term solution to our chronic problems with Islamism. I do think that the short term response to the acute and immediate threats of Islamism should be robust, using measured force.

The more we fail to achieve a cohesive response to Islamism, that placates the public’s fears, the more we play into the hands of the far right. Europe needs to remember and start championing it’s values, the enlightenment, the rule of law etc etc before we forget it and see a reversion to fascism.

I am not sure portraying black person as a monkey can be called “sailing close to the wind”. Its just racist.

Depends if there was intent.
Don’t know the cartoon you speak of but if meant as in the the term you pay peanuts you get monkeys as in useless or I will speak to the organ grinder as in not the man in charge.

My sister said to a new black mother a friend of my niece of her baby, he’s a cheeky little monkey.
The mother took offence where non was meant.
My sister calls all little boys “monkeys”

The religion of peace again spreading it’s message of peace of love again I see…

Not like Christians and their ever so friendly burning each other at the stake because they are the wrong sort of Christian.

Different era, same religion.

Anyone old enough here to remember Enoch?

Boardwalk Empire?

Oh the other one.. Yes I think that was done a few pages back, some people thought he reasonably predicted this situation but apparently their all racists.

Anyone old enough here to remember Enoch?

Givup, we’ve been there earlier in the programme.

Apparently he was a misquoted rascist. (or something)

I wonder if a wee bit beer on a friday night makes the fan boys braver?

I wonder if a wee bit beer on a friday night makes the fan boys braver?

Not braver just more gobby! 🙂

Can’t wait for that weekend away with Ton!!