"Modern cars are too powerful for UK roads"

I take your point molgrips – it’s a nice car 518d is probably ‘quick enough’ in that it’ll hit the NSL on any road, but I bet it’s rather dull to drive. I had a go in a 535d and while fast, that was also not that interesting to drive – the 518d would probably send most people to sleep.

I can only ever think that most modern cars feel much slower than they are – an e28 with the same engine would be much more fun for the mpg.

Maximum fun per mpg is probably something like this Caterham Ecoboost – but that’s not really usable day to day, meaning you’d need a second car.

If you need a Caterham and a 518d to cover everything, I’d bet a 12 year old e39 M5 would have a lower impact over its lifetime than two new cars (based on assumptions and no research whatsoever – correct me if I’m wrong)

I bet it’s rather dull to drive

I bet it’s just fine. You’re firmly within ‘first world problem’ territory here!

True, but a £180 bike from Halfords is probably nominally ‘fine’. I take your point, but you can’t always rationalise hobbies like that because people don’t always have a rational approach to it.

Horses for courses, and all that.

Re your car, let’s say what, 280g/km CO2? that’s somewhere around 90 tonnes CO2 since it was new. That could easily have been halved. The savings could have heated an average house for 3.5 years or lit a room for 400 years!

yep, and as you mention I’m also destroying a finite resource faster than the efficient car would. Is total co2 output the most important factor in any desicion? Or only where the effect is seen as being an irrelevance( ie I gain nothing from the car being higher power so the extra co2 is generated for nothing)? Or have I understood it wrong?

BWM 518d = 143bhp and 1615kg. Either not quick enough or not decent enough on fuel for most people depending on which camp you are in.

I can’t begin to state how much better it is to drive than an ordinary Eurobox even at relatively low speed.

I reckon a 911 would ruin my sex life. Madame chose our current vehicle; it’s voluminous, has excellent visibility and is easier to drive than a shopping trolley. A Dacia Lodgy, the only decision I made was the engine option, petrol TCE.

True, but a £180 bike from Halfords is probably nominally ‘fine’.

Hmm.. I’d not put it like that. That BMW is like an Orange 5 with XT – plenty good enough.

Is total co2 output the most important factor in any desicion? Or only where the effect is seen as being an irrelevance( ie I gain nothing from the car being higher power so the extra co2 is generated for nothing)?

Hmm. Tricky one that.

We all want things, we just need to think hard first, I suppose, and be honest. I’d love a fast car, but I couldn’t square that with the wasted fuel, or the risks I’d end up taking. I do fly to America from time to time, but that’s to see my wife’s family. I want her to remain in touch with her family, and I want my kids to know their cousins because they are great people and it enriches our lives a lot. I could have not married my wife, but that’s a step I wasn’t prepared to take.

A purely selfish thing, but there you go. However I think it’s a little more worthwhile than rammning around in a too-fast car.

You’re absolutely right, I was being rather unfair…!

It’d be like comparing an Orange 5 with Deore / entry level wheels / heavy tyres.

It’ll do all the same stuff as a top of the range one, but the same frame with XTR and plastered with shiny things will be more enjoyable – even if you’re not a world champ racer riding it at 100% all the time.

None of us really need that stuff, but here we are! I’ve got some Hope skewers – they’re maybe a few g lighter (no idea), but they look and feel bloody lovely, even though I don’t really notice they’re there when I’m out riding (compare that to commuting, for the car comparison). I would notice it if I weighed everything to the last g and totaled up how much my bike weighed, though (hooning on a trackday).

Edit: Your example is much better!

…the risks I’d end up taking…

…rammning around in a too-fast car.

I think it’s probably best for everyone, you not having a fast car. Sounds like you’d be a right liability.

Hope skewers are soo BMW. They look and feel great but don’t function as well as Shimano.

What are you doing with Hope skewers anyway? It’s like driving a BMW diesel (so turn of the century) when modern bikes use 15 and 12mm axles (small turbo petrol engines with variable valve timing etc. to make them efficient).

I built the bike while I was a student from second hand bits and had no money ;). They’re more Range Rover Evoque – fancy name, work well enough but completely style over substance. They do make me happy, though. Originally I only had one skewer and one bolt-up axle – but the wheels have Hope hubs so it seemed to right thing to do. I freely admit it’s insanely fanny-ish – no point trying to deny it…

The Campag ones I have on my road bike are much nicer, too.

Sounds like you’d be a right liability.

Shameless ‘I’m better than you’ there! Good one!

A purely selfish thing, but there you go. However I think it’s a little more worthwhile than rammning around in a too-fast car.

Of course you do and there’s the rub. Everyone can reason why they ‘need’ a fast car, transatlantic flight, new bike….

At some point I want to own a car that does less mpg than it has cylinders…

I’m never going to fly to America.

Does that make it ok?

You tell me…

jamesfts – Member

At some point I want to own a car that does less mpg than it has cylinders…

I’m never going to fly to America.

Better buy something soon.

Thanks 🙂

It’ll be very old but I’ll let you know how much fun it is!

Good man.

BMW 518d?

150bhp and 114g/km CO2. Not really a Eurobox, is it? Nice enough to enjoy being in, quick enough and decent on fuel.

Not really a sports car either is it?

I did actually consider the latest 5 series estate for the family wagon, but decided it was overkill for the kids to trash. Also bigger than we needed for that job. Money no object I may have got one, but would have gone for a 520d auto. It’s a big heavy car.

As an alternative to a 911 it would be woeful. Never seen a 518d at a track day ever.

15 pages and essentially what’s being argued – on a forum where people spend £££££s on the latest carbon fibre full-suspension uberbikes to pedal round damp forests – is that some cars are a bit better faster than they need to be for UK roads.

Furthermore whether these cars are nicer to drive or not, us children can’t be trusted to drive them safely and even if we could essentially we are clubbing baby seals every time we drive them because they use more fuel than a diesel shitbox would.

Did I miss anything?

Yes, cars are quicker than motorbikes

Those £££££££s are about what one of these cars loses in depreciation in a year. If you’re going to use that argument, then it’s far, far cheaper to get your fun on a super expensive bicycle than it is in a car. Have two.

Those £££££££s are about what one of these cars loses in depreciation in a year.

Only if the car is new

I’ve lost a lot more in depreciation on bikes than my brother did on his last fast car which he bought for £10000 and sold for £9500…

… Seven years later

I’ve actually made money out of classic cars. Quite a lot of money actually.
Out of my current cars, one is still appreciating in value (nearly doubled in the last 5 years), one is depreciating slowly and the other is losing quite a lot. The latter is by far the most ordinary car I own.

Edit: Oh yes and I’ve never made any money out of a bicycle!