Mixing hot wax with daily lube – in this case MSW and Peay’s all weather

Anyone else do this regularly? I’ve always done this with MSW once in a while and then Smoove in small amounts on each ride – with Smoove being difficult and expensive to get hold of I’ve ordered Peaty’s all weather and planning on doing this instead. Hopefully I won’t die…

Yea, I find the water based waxes work about as well on a previously hot-waxed chain as they do on a clean chain, i.e. you’re lucky to get a long days riding out of them but it stays clean, better than nothing, and doesn’t need washing off before hot-waxing.  I’ve never tried topping it up each ride, I just ride if for a few hundred miles until it starts to make a bit of noise then re-wax it, that’s kind of the point for me.  I use either the little Smoove bottles you get in race goodie bags, the Tru-Tension stuff or Scoitoiler (scoitoiler being the worst, they marketed it as bike spray for both your chain and for polishing your frame, but it lasts no time on the chain and turned my white painted frame yellow).

Adding a few drops of wet lube though turns it into the most tenacious lube known to humankind, it’s just a bit black and gunky.  I actually genuinely cannot recall when I last oiled the fixies chain.

Yep I use the road chain for ages before re-waxing but the mtb on regular wet / mixed rides I don’t find hot waxing lasts all that long.

One of the best aspects of hot melt immersion wax chain lube method (other than its near perfect total penetration) is that it washes off pretty much entirely with boiling water taking the contamination with it and leaving a very clean chain ready for the next hot dip session.
With regular drip lines, It’s the lack of penetration and the contamination inside the chain, (very messy to totally banish – multiple solvents needed to fully strip the contaminated lube), that kills the (nowadays incredibly costly) drivetrain.

Silca (purveyors of super secret hot wax) also have a full penetration drip on version that’s useful for between hot waxing top ups. It too is effectively entirely removed with a boiling water rinse or three.(only disadvantage is it needs to be left a minimum of about 8 hours and ideally overnight, so the base evaporates)

mixing other lines with a waxed chain means all the advantages are lost – or a 6 bath solvent rinse. 3 white spirit, 3 meths. Same as a new chain. Or I guess UFO clean or Silca chain prep both of which are proper one shot cleaners.
I’m sure the hot wax haters will chime in now! Too much faff etc.

I’m currently working up a homebrew recipe for hot-wax type solution, there’s a definite trade off between how long it lasts and how clean it stays. The problem I’m finding is that while molten wax and oils are miscible as liquids, once you cool it down again the wax tends to crystalize out and flake off so I’m left with a slightly tackier layer on the chain. I’m working on some soap based chemistry which in theory should give the best of both worlds by being at the same time durable and clinging to the metal and hydrophobic but without the crystalline structure that makes wax flake off.

6 bath solvent rinse. 3 white spirit, 3 meths.

That’s really a bit too over the top.

One thorough wash in a hydrocarbon based solvent would strip off any old lube and any contamination. Then boiling water to remove the solvent.

For comparison I used to run a cleanliness testing lab looking at the internal components of engines.  Typically they’d get a 3 stage cleaning process after machining to remove any casting material, machining swarf, etc and that left them clean enough that it messed up the readings if I left the fume cupboard door open in a cleanroom!

I’m not a hot wax hater but for anything other than dry road use I’m going back to wet drip lube. For wet or muddy use (even gravel) there’s just no guarantee that hot wax will even last 100km and I’ve limped home more than once on a very dry, very squeaky chain (happened with Putoline, GLF wax and MSW).

I haven’t yet found the range for a single application of Fenwick’s Stealth but once I’ve finished the bottle I’ll be moving to Synergetic anyway as I want something tgat can be applied mid-ride if necessary for overnighters and big days out.

As above by mixing drip lube and hot wax I think you’re just making a lot of extra work for yourself unfortunately 🙁

It’s no real work – just use a small amount every other ride or so and then once in a while do a hot dip. Haven’t bothered with the boiling water option but can certainly see that’d work for an extra level of deep clean.

Haven’t bothered with the boiling water option but can certainly see that’d work for an extra level of deep clean.

It’s more that grease based lubes don’t play well with wax/oil based lubes so cleaning a new chain helps a lot.

And for subsequent cleaning, boiling water is a bit more environmentally friendly than solvent baths and the added agitation from boiling shifts more of the crap (a bit like an ultrasonic bath).

It’s no real work – just use a small amount every other ride or so and then once in a while do a hot dip.

A fair enough, I was completely averse to dipping a ‘dirty’ chain into clean wax so would have wanted to clean all the additional drip lube off first. Was an advantage of Putoline that you didn’t really need to care what you dipped into the pot!

I’ve used one lot of Molten Speed Wax for about 2 years. Just changed it for a new lot but pretty much any crap on the chain just drops to the bottom so I don’t clean first. Maybe I should do boiling water and dry before a dip then the wax would probably last even longer.
My main concern about using Peaty’s plus an occasional hot wax was that it’s a mix of wax and oils in an emulsion rather than a pure wax lube. Having said that I think Smoove is similar to this as well.
The super secret Silca stuff might be a good option as they do a hot wax and daily lube that are designed to work together. Maybe I’ll try that next time!

Andy. I reckon the Silca Super Secret Drip will be a far better bet. It’s fine with MSW I was told. If the chain’s muddy it really does benefit from a good boiling  rinse or 3. (Not in a closed bottle, I use an old pan on the hob) Your source for all things wise on hot wax is ZeroFrictionCycling

ZFC do have a “2 bath waxing like a boss” process to avoid wax contamination – but even then  never recommends putting a muddy chain in any wax. And even more so doesn’t recommend letting other lubes get in the wax. Especially mentioned Smoove when I asked him. Best not to. Even boiling faster may not remove smoove well. AND it has pretty poor penetration apparently according to his tests. You need to heat the chain and I’m not up for that.

I’d forget Peaty’s, Try give the Super Secret drip overnight to evaporate. Best to add it as the chain passes over the cassette cos it’s very watery (hence the excellent penetration).
I’ve spent hours watching Adams videos at ZeroFrictionCycling- he is SO generous either way his time.

So are you guys washing waste wax down your kitchen sinks? Is that good for your domestic plumbing or water treatment?

Just have multiple chains? I’ve got 3 chains in rotation, takes 5 mins or less to swap the chain out.

Thenks for the excellent suggestions. Zero Friction Cycling is an amazing resource! On the basis of the specific suggestion there I will continue with intermittent hot waxing with MSW and then regular drip waxing with Silva Super Secret. Peaty’s will be going back – glad I bought it on Amazon!

Midlife crashes I don’t really get much waste at all.

I’m planning to use Synergetic for topping over drip on wax on longer wet rides – https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mid-ride-top-up-of-washed-out-drip-on-chain-wax/

I use putoline and sometimes “top up” with whatever else I have around. it’s not as good as retreating with the wax, but it’s better than all of the other alternatives (ie just using a normal lube, or just leaving the putoline til it’s too late). Gives a bit more water/rust protection too. Does make a very, very manky chain but that’s just cosmetic really, or trouserleg-destroying.

I’ve never bothered to work out a “best” option, probably there’ll be some ideal chain lube that works best with the wax but it all seems to work adequately.

I’m a waxerer
Chains on rotation, When a couple need attention  then all the ones that have run out of wax or are close-ish go back in the hot wax for a new dose.
Otherwise I spray a bit of GT85 on them to keep surface rust at bay.

I wouldn’t worry about topping up with a bit of additional lube on a really long wet rides. Not something I do often (ever) but it’s a pretty forgiving system just so long as you don’t dump loads of random crap into the wax all the time. I suppose I’d probably go for ligher wax based lube for a top up.

A lot of people get very puritanical about waxing, but (except for on the road really chasing watts) I really don’t think you have to be

I’m not at all bothered about watts. I like a clean chain that I can handle if I need to and a quiet reliable drivetrain, I find that hot waxing alone on often wet trails is not enough and ends with a rusty chain, hence the combination of hot waxing every once in a while and a compatible drip wax inbetween.

MSW lasts for a good while on a road bike but nowhere near as long on a mountain bike.

 I like a clean chain that I can handle if I need to and a quiet reliable drivetrain,

First part is why I persevered with waxing, second part is why I’m giving it up sadly. Synergetic apparently achieves most of the above, I’ll stick with my lessons learned from waxing and be giving the chain a wipe down with GT85 on a rag between applications, keep the outside of the chain clean to touch.

On zero friction website Silca Super Secret appears to perform better than Silca Synergetic even without any hot waxing so on that basis using that plus an occasional hot dip would appear to be the better option.

Drip on wax lubes need time to dry out though. If you’re mid ride you are better off using a wet lube but this will mean that you need to properly strip the chain rather than just dipping in boiling water before re waxing.

Never had the need redo mid ride. Always put next lot of lube on after cleaning bike so plenty of time b4 next ride…

andylc
Thenks for the excellent suggestions. Zero Friction Cycling is an amazing resource! On the basis of the specific suggestion there I will continue with intermittent hot waxing with MSW and then regular drip waxing with Silva Super Secret. Peaty’s will be going back – glad I bought it on Amazon!

yep. Silca’s Super Secret drip is a great way to top up an immersion waxed chain. Just make sure you give it 8 hours to “set”.
Silca synergetic would work but require a full solvent strip to reset for the next wax.
great things about Super Secret drip

1: full penetration

2: washes off with boiling water bath or three

it’s very thin.
it needs to set “overnight”

enjoy.
ideally a non rusting chain like Sram X01 makes this easier. Costly but worth the money as they last an age.

Not sure if SRAM chain works with 1×12 XT. Will check…think better to stick with Shimano chain but happy to be corrected on that…

Most, if not all brands, have a higher end model with better anti corrosion coating so the Shimano XTR would work without going rusty. 8 run two of those and SLX. The SLX is looking tarnished, but not rusty.

The 12 speed SRAM chains (not T-Type) do work with Shimano and they “hyper glide” without issue. They are a bit less smooth in the hyper glide+ direction though. The SRAM chains are super durable though. Having said that, they’re not the fastest chains. Again, ZFC is a really useful resource.

I’m pleased to see there are a few ZeroFrictionCycling fans on here. It’s a really great resource for advice and scientifically proven results.
less friction = more speed. But also less wear which is what interests me. .