London fire brigade strike

Thought I’d start a thread before some of the right wingers start reproducing the propaganda as facts.

Regrettably the firefighters of London have voted in favour of strike action and just to be clear IT IS NOT ABOUT PAY, we have already swallowed a three year pay freeze. The ballot was to strike if the management didn’t remove the threat and legal proceedings to sack the entire workforce if they couldn’t get a negotiated settlement on their terms. Just so it’s clear we know there will be a change to our contracts, we don’t necessarily like it but we do accept it, but the way negotiations have been going so far is that our management refuse to budge on what they want knowing that if it drags on long enough (until Nov 26th) then they can legally terminate everyone’s contract and then offer us new and worse contracts, so in other words they’re not really negotiating, they are stalling. We have stated that this behaviour is unacceptable and that we want a proper negotiated settlement, i.e. give and take on both sides, and that unless they withdraw the legal proceedings then we will withdraw our labour in protest, our union is giving the brigade 24 hours to withdraw the sacking threat before announcing dates.

For what it’s worth I don’t think a strike is a good idea, I take my job seriously and I really don’t want to strike, I believe the people of London will be at serious risk with the inadequate back up service being put into place. However I also don’t think that our demands are unreasonable, negotiation should form the basis for the resolution of this and it is not to late for the brigade to scrap the plans to sack everyone and enter into meaningful negotiations, sadly I don’t think they will.

just set fire to the houses of those responsible, its what they’d do on the continent and the EU will back you up*

*not true

With you all the way mate. Hope it can be resolved in favour of the extremely brave and selfless firefighters who do such a vital job. That such a situation can even arise, is disgusting in my book. The fire service is surely one profession where the needs and requirements of the workers themselves should be paramount, other any other political considerations.

This is why we need unions, now more than at many other times. To protect the rights of people who actually do the job, not the interests of management etc.

Thanks for the voices of support, it does unfortunately seem that the employment laws in this country are sometimes stacked against employees, there should be independent overseeing of any employer that uses section 188 of the trade relations act (I think that’s the one)to force through changes in contract to ensure that there are proper negotiations.

For what it’s worth I don’t think a strike is a good idea, I take my job seriously and I really don’t want to strike, I believe the people of London will be at serious risk with the inadequate back up service being put into place.

I wouldn’t worry too much Bazz, according to Brian Coleman chairman of the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority, quote : “.. the only losers in all of this will be firefighters.”

So there you have it, from the top man himself……..the only people who will suffer are firefighters.

If he’s not worried, then I don’t think you should be either.

I bet you never realised that your job was that unimportant eh Bazz ?

Although IIRC, in previous disputes firefighters have left the picket lines to deal with an emergency. Just leave commercial premises etc to burn. The responsibility will lie with those who instigated and provoked this strike by announcing the sacking of the entire workforce.

And after all, no one has to accept re-employment after being sacked. So by withholding your labour now, you are simply bringing forward a management decision by a few weeks. I can’t see how anyone could have cause to complain.

Just to add to this, the meeting I went to last week regarding the closure of the department I work in (NHS rehab / recovery service) was attended by two union representatives (unison and the rcn), both of whom backed up the senior management and hr’s statements without a word in our defence. Basically, I think they were there to instruct us in how far to bend over. A sad day for trade unionism.

It’s bloody disgraceful that nurses, firefighters, cops, binmen and other essential workers are paid such low wages while certain desk jockeys earn so much. Good luck!

may I suggest that as their stately piles are engulfed you all dance upon your engines singing along to this:

easy to amend the lyrics to suit the cause too! 😀

Well Bazz there are quite a few people out there who are now unemployed who could do your job, just how hard can it be to sleep on night shift, to drive a big red lorry with flashing lights, to squirt some water at a fire, and walk around in half mast trousers.Yes i watched londons burning.
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So easy think the muppets who believe they personally pay your wages, the same muppets that depend on you and your highly trained and skilled collegues to drive at speed, to arrive at a fire, explosion, road collision etc, to make almost instant life saving decisions, to save property, to rescue people from high rise buildings on fire, the same people who have never experienced the hard work you do to extricate somebody injured in a road collision, who a few hours latter may be stoned by yobs, putting out a stolen car fire, the same fire officers who have carried a dead child out of a burning building, and then go home to their own kids.
We need you and they need you, they just havent got any insight into the job you do.Serious best wishes to yourself and collegues in the fight against management bullying.

Tandem Jeremy to the forum please now.

All I say is, is be careful the last dispute Fire Services didn’t favour well from.

Unfortunately terms and conditions for many have worsened in recent years, we have had new less favourable working hours all but forced upon us
Firemen are well known for having a second moonlighting job in their long periods of days off and support may be harder to come by unless they are seen to be willing to change as others have had to

Project in praising public sector workers shocker! Get out of bed the wrong side?? 😉

Taxi

We’ve already changed massively, since the last Strike that led to a ‘modernisation’ of the fire services country wide, we’re asked to do more and more for the same funding and wages at the moment and much less in the coming years, our pension contributions are very likely to be going up to the maximum 15% our retirement age is going up to perhaps 65!

let me just give you an idea what we’re currently responsible for, and believe me the list isn’t exhaustive

Fire’s in houses, tower blocks you name it if it’s on fire were responsible.
Road traffic collisions, motorways a and b roads and everywhere else
Rescues from height
rescues from water inland
Hazmat incidents
Terrorist incidents including the mass decontamination of the public
Animal rescues
Ship fires in our coastal waters
Aircraft crashes
Structural collapses
special service calls like lift rescues, automatic fire alarms, bariatric patients etc etc

Basically if it isn’t nicking someone or medical treatment you can bet were going to be tasked with it, and expected to complete it in a professional and speedy manner.

It takes 5 years to fully qualify as a FF with written and practical assesments all the way. I’m in my 10th year of service and i’m still learning every week.

Yes most FF have a second job, is it wrong they’re earning more for their families? or should they sit on their rears instead?

There’s a saying in hampshire and i’m sure other brigades say it too

‘You’ll never be rich and be a firefighter’

But it isn’t about the money for the majority of us.

Good luck for the future Bazz, hopefully the madness in LFB’s senior management will be nipped in the bud before it seeps out to the ‘shire brigades because our SMT our so keen to impress they’ll happily sell us up the river too.

Al

‘cos they need the money for this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11084406

In fact if you read down further, the new engine story is almost laughable – if it wasn’t my money.

yes because it was the fire service that decided we needed to be regionalised despite it obviously not working, and we also decided that we needed these ultra hi tech unused control centres that have sat unused because the software keeps crashing and the designers keep asking for more money and time. Time and money that the politicians are more than happy to give them.

the new engine story is almost laughable

Yes we had one of those, the most useless piece of sh1te I have ever seen. It got punted on ebay or whatever the fire service auction site is called.

and is this value for money?

I wasn’t criticising the firefighters or belittling the work they do, just stating the fact that they need to win the public’s support.

Do you still refuse to accept a change to your days off system?

If so that won’t win favour with many people who now have to work different hours than they used to

Yes most FF have a second job, is it wrong they’re earning more for their families

Frankly yes it is if they are not paying tax on the earnings

Do you still refuse to accept a change to your days off system?

No

Its the 24hr continuous work, that is a bit hard to swallow. When exactly do I see my wife and kids?

Doesn’t sound fair at all to me, and really undervalues the dedication and courage of firefighters. You’d think they’d appreciate you eh? It’s not enough to go into a possibly life threatening workplace? and you have to deal with Arseholes Behind Desks a well, always the ABD!

Bring in the german model. If the lazy don’t want to work*, let’s get people to do it for free.

*play darts and snooker all day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_fire_services

if they’re not paying tax on those extras then yes i’d agree with you, i don’t know of any people not legit. For the record i have no second job.

Our shifts are being decided on, however i work 9-6 for 2 days then two nights 6-9, yes i have a ‘stand down’ period from midnight to 6, and i’m still expected to turn out in under a minute 24hours a day. I have 6 in 8 weekends interrupted by the shift, and therefore people on traditional 9-5 work patterns are hard to catch up with.

I like my shift it was a big reason for me joining the fire service, i enjoy my off time with my family and friends. I will resist the changes to my shift however if the shift changes it changes, it has to have a reason to change though and there hasn’t been one that is more efficient or cost saving yet without i believ breaking european employment law.

This is rapidly steering off subject now, so i’ll watch but comment no further.

Again Bazz and any other LFB’s best of luck coming to a negotiated conclusion.

*play darts and snooker all day.

give it a f c u king rest you really have no idea what you are taking about. its not 1977 anymore. 🙄

Begining of the week the management took 35 fire engines out of service, to act as standby in case of an emergency in london town.

Wonder who has the relevant licence,training and skills to use the equipment on them in case of anything going on fire or bang

good luck bazz, wish you all the best. watching with interest, cos its bound to affect us in other brigades too if london are squashed.

the ‘strikebusters’ are being trained in the next village to us, and by all accounts theyre not up to the job, so itd be pretty dangerous if london was relying on them!

Frankly yes it is if they are not paying tax on the earnings

hi rich, for what its worth, i dont know of any firefighters who work cash in hand on their days off. do many do this?

EDIT: much is often made of the time firefighters get off. our shifts are based on us working a 42hr week, on a ‘4 on 4 off, 5 on 3 off’ pattern.

Wonder who has the relevant licence,training and skills to use the equipment on them in case of anything going on fire or bang

They will be handed over to http://www.assetco.com/%5B/url%5D

Tijuana Taxi – Member

Unfortunately terms and conditions for many have worsened in recent years, we have had new less favourable working hours all but forced upon us

This strike is NOT about “terms and conditions”.

It is about the threat by the management to sack the entire workforce.

If the London Fire Brigade Commissioner withdraws the threat to sack the entire workforce there will be NO strike.

Try to pay attention Tijuana Taxi ……….it’s particularly useful to do so if you want to comment.

“firefighters” spend less than 1% of their total time fighting fires but still get a pay premium for the risk (despite other more risky professions being paid less).

The ways of working are antiquated and need to be reformed – we have less fatal car crashes and less fires than 20 years ago but are told we still need the same number of staff and same level of infrastructure.

My only recent experience of firefighters was as a building manager. The fire brigade rescued someone from a lift after hours by jacking the lift car up with air cushions. They didn’t bother to leave any notes to say they had been to the building, or bother to turn off the power to the lifts. The jacking up of the lifts resulted in the hydraulic fluid being forced back through the system which in turn caused the control system to fail and the hydraulic oil to start boiling – starting a fire the following morning. I fortunately discovered the fire when I arrived at work and found the whole place full of smoke – I turned off the 450v electrics before it got too out of hand and put the fire out.

Strangely, the local firefighters didn’t take kindly to me pointing out that they had caused a serious incident by failing to use any common sense, or to me subsequently confirming that the maintenance company they were running in their “off days” (how many full time people run another “full time hours” business on the side?) would no longer be used by our firm – their lacsidasical approach to safety and reluctance to submit proper invoices (no, we couldn’t pay cash) was in my mind ample proof that many firefighters are quite simply out of touch.

despite other more risky professions being paid less

Are you for real? Name one.

Your attitude towards firefighters is incredibly disrespectful. And what, based on the fact that they may have made a mistake or more likely that your lift system lacks adequate safety systems in case of failure? Still got someone out of your crappy broken down lift, din’t they? Maybe they din’t turn the power off because they couldn’t, or considered it might compromise other safety or security systems. I’m sure they would have considered such things.

Have a word with yourself… 🙄

Farmer John surely if the building was ful of smoke you should have called the fire brigade, and allowed proffesioanlly trained people to put the fire out, also why wasnt the fire alarm ringing its dong off

despite other more risky professions being paid less

what are other more dangerous jobs then,

My only recent experience of firefighters was as a building manager.

Says it all really.

Anyway…….I thought you were a farmer ?

And you’re not happy with firefighters not spending more time fighting fires ? ……….well it’s true that they spend a lot of time doing other stuff.

Like getting daft farmers out of trouble. From yesterday’s news :

Cumbrian firefighters praised after rescuing cows from slurry pit

Your cows are knee-deep in shit Farmer_John ………………who ya gonna call ?

Ghostbusters ?

Are you for real? Name one.

Army

The army is an example of “more risky professions being paid less” ?

It appears that the basic pay for a private on operations is £25,887

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8232737.stm

I doubt whether that is much less than a lower rank firefighter.

And I don’t suppose Farmer_John would approve anyway, as I doubt whether the average soldier spends more than 1% of their time engaging the enemy.

Firefighter pay scales 2009.

Trainee £21,157

Development £22,038

Competent £28,199

farmer john as a building manager i presume you know a lot about lifts ? i also presume you know about all the different operating systems lifts now have? given your little tale im also presuming you also know about how every single lift in the entire city you live in works ? now given lift rescues are such a small part of our job how the hell would i know every lift system and how it works in the whole of my city center ?

pay/risk wise as i served 8 years in the army before joining the fire brigade which i have been in also 8 years so i have some knowledge that i didnt just make up. pay wise im on slightly more now than i was in the army but it took me longer to get to the pay im now on and it was a lot harder to get to it too.

risk wise both jobs involve a lot of waiting as well as going into risky situations. ive been to war/conflict three times and had some tricky situations to deal with but ive probably been in more actual personally dangerous situations in the fire brigade. but both are dangerous at times and not at a lot of times. it also depends on your regt/deployment and your station too as a reme soldier would have less danger than a city fireman but an infantry soldier would take much more risk than a out in the sticks fireman. its all relative.

but its not all about risk/danger/money i did both jobs because i wanted to do them nothing to do with money.

also the 1% of time actually fighting fires point. if we were to go back to the old days where we could all play pool and sit on our cracks and do no fire saftey then the percentage would go up as its that work that has brought the fires down

our brigades current plans for next year will no doubt see fire fighting percentages increase anyway as we are set to close 12 stations and lose 15 appliances and terminate the contracts of all retained fire fighters. also at least 6 of the remaining stations are set to drop in fire cover to days only and bleeper cover from home at night. also govt funding for free smoke alarms is soon to be gone so we wont be giving them out anymore , gone already are the deep fat fryers and electric blankets due to funding despite clear indications of fire reduction

Old-school, heavily unionised workforce

vs

Old-school, ‘Post Office’ type management

Both need to grow up and work together – its a ‘service’ not a ‘business’.

firestarter – Member

also govt funding for free smoke alarms is soon to be gone so we wont be giving them out anymore , gone already are the deep fat fryers and electric blankets due to funding despite clear indications of fire reduction

Posted 1 hour ago # Report-Post

Weirdly an elderley customer said a few weeks a go, that a lady had a fire down the road in her kitchen, and that a nice fireman came knocking on the door dressed as a fireman, to ask did i have a fat fryer, (she said i didnt know what one was,but thought he was a real fireman as there was a fire engine on the street and a ambulance).

So i said no, a few days latter a nice fire man and his freinds turned up with a new deep fat fryer amd some smoke alarms all for free.

At the time i thought she was going a bit confused.

yeah project we used to do the alarms,fryers and blankets but only doing alarms this year. looks set to end soon tho

My next door neighbour, young lad a few years ago, had a deep fat fryer, came home a bit drunk , decided to do fried chicken.

So put the fryer on, sitting next to a plastic fridge freezer, with a microwave on top, about 5 foot up, fat fryer sets fat on fire,(i a;lways thought they where on a thermostat) melts fridge side, microwave falls onto fryer, and ejects all the hot burning flat into his kitchen, just as hes waking up he said, runs in and looks at it as the thick smoke gets him.

Luckily one of the neighbours sees the smoke, and knocks on my door to say that G,s flat is on fire, so i kick his door in and find him on the floor, drag him out, and await the arrival of the fire brigade.

So say the smoke and smell was thick and horrendous would not do it justice.

The muppet had took the batteries out of the smoke alarms fitted also wedged the kitchen fire door open, so the smoke spread, never take the batteries out and never wedge fire doors open.

also govt funding for free smoke alarms is soon to be gone so we wont be giving them out anymore

Several men turning up in a fire engine to fit a smoke alarm may be a bored housewives dream but I’m not sure it is a good use of resources.