Life, Faith, Religion and a path to finding God?

Too many people have their head in the clouds. The key for me in terms of a philosophy is, is it practical?

Science has lots of faults but it’s application in the real world (the world “I” percieve and “I” go about my business in) are clear and definate with outcomes in line with expectations and so on. I pick up the phone it works I talk to someone in New York, Hooray for science, wooo.

Faith has no practical applications that couldn’t exist independently of faith. For example I pray really hard for a miracle and a miracle is not forthcoming. I try to speak to god no answer. I seek proof of gods existence and there is none. A faithful person may do something practical and say they did it in the name of faith but they could do a practical thing without faith and frankly I’d rate that even higher on the scale.

Faith to me is irrelevant, perhaps I lack imagination.

So, MrNutt and Charlie, do you believe in evolution?

It’s an improbable mountain…

Faith has no practical applications that couldn’t exist independently of faith.

Speak for yourself on that one, as I said earlier, I find that my Faith helps be be a lot stronger in dealing with problems, situations, desires and urges. Things to which when Godless I would have submitted to and damn the consequences.

I repeat, I consider Faith to be a deeply personal thing, this is why Mr Woppit vexed me so, because he couldn’t see that although his wangulation of atheism(sic) may well have been to him a general concept that he has on a shelf. To me my Faith is a much deeper thing than that, Its something that helps me when I’m in trouble, its something that gives me comfort when I’m lost and its something that brings me greater happiness when all is usual or even better.

Now you can attempt at pissing in my packet of God flavoured crisps all you like, but I’m still going to be eating them and every mouthful will be piss free! 😀

My daily life is enriched by my Faith, That to me IS a practical application, would my daily life exist without my Faith, Yes, but I couldn’t say for how long or to what ends, most certainly not as good as it is now.

I’m glad your security blanket makes you happy. (Edit: sorry).

So, my understanding of what is going on around me is, as you rightly point out, illuminated by things that I have read and had explained to me.

Whence comes your “faith”, then? Did you make it up out of a vacuum?

What do you mean by “deep”, in this context?

Also – I’d be interested to hear about these “desires and urges” that seem to disturb you so, for which you apparently need “forgiveness”…

crikey, in answer to your question:

I don’t have a conflict between my faith in God and the evidence of evolution.

I believe that evolution has a large amount of convergent evidence to support the notion of evolution [astronomoy, geology, biology to name a few]. Whilst some areas remain shrouded in confusion / lack clarity as a whole it is a very robust and well understood system with very little evidence to counter it as a theory.
In layman’s terms yes it is true

PS: So, given that you “believe” in evolution, from what did your god evolve?
Also, why do you think that evolution involves “accident”?

Ok, I’m not having a go, but does that mean that you treat some of the Bible as allegorical?

..and following on, if you do, how do you decide which bits?

So, MrNutt and Charlie, do you believe in evolution?

What’s to believe? I understand it is a fact.

Actually, I think it’s the best guess yet.

Again then Charlie, does it conflict with the bible version, and do you think some bits are allegorical?

PS: So, given that you “believe” in evolution, from what did your god evolve?

There is requirement that God evolved.

Also, he’s not ‘my’ God.

CharlieMungus – Member

So, MrNutt and Charlie, do you believe in evolution?

What’s to believe? I understand it is a fact.

Actually, I think it’s the best guess yet.

Well, which is it?

We know Charlie it is everyones god

The later WHoppit Science does not discover truths just explanationos of best fit please dont make me do this in another thread – it removes infinite error it has a probability of the conclusion being true. It is not true hence why science can do huge paridigm switches based on evidence and reverse their position on issues

… and here’s the religious faction jumping into the discussion with the usual unsupported assertions, expecting still, that they will carry weight with those of us who have been explaining at great length, why they don’t.

MrNutt

Mr Woppit, you seem all too willing to demand answers from me but reluctant to answer any of mine.

If you care to read earlier in this thread you’ll know the answer as to where my faith comes from,

deep? you don’t understand that word when used in an emotional/spiritual manner?

desires and urges? think bad things, destructive and violent activities both towards myself and others with no concern or intent to reign in.

here you go again, DID I SAY NEED FORGIVENESS? NO. but perhaps I will one of these days.

Learn to read and pay attention or STFU.

PS I recall that Junkyard’s points have been evidentially refuted in the past, yet here he is again. Raising them again.

I don’t understand how he manages to transmute “A theory is scientific if it can be unproved by new information” into “cience can do huge paridigm switches based on evidence and reverse their position on issues ” – as if there is something wrong with that…

Science is the search for truth, a laudable aim with many discoveries to it’s credit and consistent irrespective of race or location.

Religion is the delivery of truth as outlined by the faithful, an arrogant position without evidence and completely contradictory based on the version of truth practiced in your society.

In the simplest terms I don’t believe the “truth” that religion offers. Science isn’t claiming the truth just a move towards it, step by step.

Which bible version? The Old Testament? I think some bits are allegorical

where were they evidentially refuted?
I lack your faith in that claim 😛

Well, which is it?

merely echoing you there Woppit

Me? I think it’s the best guess yet.

Nutt – I stand corrected. I think that what you are trying to say is that you “need” faith, which is maybe why you’re looking for it. Or have found it, I’m not completely sure which.

It seems to me that the nub of the matter and the reason you are posting, is that you are seeking help with your self image of a violent personality with no moral restraint to hold you back from committing acts of violence.

This is all about your battle with your own impulses, which you yourself find unnacceptable. It’s nothing to do with religion.

First of all, your chosen strategy to find a way out of your dilemma, whilst not being (in my opinion) a useful one (based as it is, on myth and superstition) does at least show that you recognise the problem and are trying to find a solution.

In my opinion, you should seek therapeutic counselling. I cannot comment on which would be the most useful for you, as I have no experience in that area, but can I suggest a visit to your G.P., who may be able to advise?

I’m sure even the briefest of web searches may provide some resources, such as:

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinfoforall/treatments/cbt.aspx

I wish you luck in your existential struggle. Be brave.

All the best.

“Woppit”.

How supportive of you mr woppit. And it didnt come over as patronising, not in the slightest. 🙄 Argue about religion as much as you like, but please, leave the psychiatric interventions to those of us that do it for a living, there’s a love.

My intention is completely, to support.

You are reading into it, patronisation that is not there.

You are however, patronising me. And not helping mrNutt.

In the slightest.

Apologise for your remarks and withdraw.

PS: MrNutt – I am completely sincere and I hope you find my post useful.

You’re patronising him by suggesting he has mental health issues becuse he started a thread on a subject you have proven time and again you disagree with. I was actually aiming for irony with the last part of my original comment, but it’s difficult to convey in writing. You want me to apologise to you? Not gonna happen woppit.

I actually believe you [whoppit] but you seem to have an innate ability to come over as c0ck even when being sincere
Sadly I have this in the real world – sincerity gap- tragic affliction caused by repeated sarcasm leading to one not being taken seriously when you mean things

I am interested in hearing from MrNutt if my post has suggested anything useful.

MrNutt has raised what I can only suppose is a serious issue and is asking for advice, it seems to me. If I am wrong, then I will recognise that, and stand corrected.

If I am right, your “irony” is innapropriate and insensitive.

Let’s leave the next word to MrNutt, shall we.

Apologise for your remarks and withdraw.

Throw your glove before him sir, and demand satisfaction.

Woppit – are you familiar with a film called Coolhand Luke?

when I read

I think that what you are trying to say

the following line came back to me from the film:

“What we’ve got here is (a) failure to communicate”

whilst your concern for my mental health is appreciated but not required.

you still fail to understand my point, the entire point behind my reuniting with Faith.

It was through rebellion against what I ultimately felt, my Faith, that I would live so recklessly.

To ease your mind I have had counseling, I have explored the very reasoning and all motives throughly, motives which you but loosely and ineffectively grasp at.

I am returning to my Faith after an over 20 year absence from God, The purpose of this thread was not to seek reassurance, to seek help or to debate the merits of test tubes over scrolls. The reason I am posting is that I believe that there may be just one other person out there who is in a similar situation and that they might take comfort in the fact that they are not alone. That they are not the only one and that also what they feel and believe to be right for them is not wrong; despite what anyone else says be them learned or not.

I understand that some people will live a life without faith, because it is not for them.

I understand that some people will live a life with a Faith that others are not willing to accept.

But I do not seek to dissuade, divert or change the course of a river.

But what you are attempting to do, to announce that you know better, that your way is the only true way and that all other options are wrong and that you have proof…

…well, what does that sound like to you?

and you call me a hypocrite, brother, we can clearly sense our own kind.

I think he is saying you have no proof therefore it makes him correct and you wrong. this wouuld be a reasonable point if he said he had a bike and you said show me and he did. We would accept it was true. It is therefore reasonable to say show me your god when others claim it and expect proof rather than your flowery poetic language about faith, journeys and rivers, which is nicely written, but it is not proof.
No one is trying to stop people having faith , everyone has the right to believe in anything they wish but that does not make what they believe accurate. It is why evidence is a better system as it stops you holding on to stuff that has no evidecne to support it

IanMunro – Member

Apologise for your remarks and withdraw.

Throw your glove before him sir, and demand satisfaction.

😆 Yeah, I’ll give you that. Bit cockish.

“Throw your glove before him sir, and demand satisfaction.”
I’d throw my boot up his knackers, given half a chance 😀

Mr Woppit comes across about as sensitive as Richard Dawkins

That’s a relief, then.

It’s interesting that you say that it was a “rebellion” against your “faith” that caused the behavioural problems for which you subsequently sought therapy, that included the impulse to violence and the inability to hold back.

Seems to me this is an illustration of one of the problems with “faith”.

If you didn’t have the “faith” in the first place, there would have been nothing to rebel against, and therefore, no behavioural problems…

I don’t envy you.

I could start another whole discussion about your misinterpretation of my motives in joining the discussion about faith and religion from my point of view as a rationalist, but I don’t think it would get us anywhere as it’s all been said really, despite junkyard’s inability to remember previous thread outcomes.

In my opinion, given all the problems that your faith has given you, my advice would be to find ways of getting rid of it, but then, that’s just me being a “c0ck”, I suppose.

Good luck.

PS: and there’s barnsleymitch, still being a good christian who doesn’t like (apparently) to get upset by people criticising him about his beliefs.

Why don’t you just forgive me, you hypocrite?

Mr Woppit – Member
PS: and there’s barnsleymitch, still being a good christian who doesn’t like (apparently) to get upset by people criticising him about his beliefs.

Why don’t you just forgive me, you hypocrite?

Woppit, perhaps you should cease criticizing other peoples beliefs, Then maybe you might not be the one asking for forgiveness?

Now i like what MrNutt has said, but Mr Woppit has been fun too, but which is better? Theres only one way to find out… FIGHT

Good plan, except for the fact that Woppit doesn’t actually have the courage to meet anyone face to face, to discuss things.

Do you know, that he actually said he would avoid an STW bike ride, if I was going to be there??!

How pathetic is that? Cutting of yer nose to spite yer face.

It’s a good thing the internet exist, otherwise he’d have no outlet for his egotistical bile…

Come on Woppit, come and have a pint with me. Come on. 🙂

Come on. I promise not to laugh at your Brompton…

evolutionary “accident”

??