kids cycling to school without helmets… is it me or?

as does TJs cat 😉

“I can be fairly confident I wont crash for 99.99% of my rides as well unfortunately I cannot predict where or when that 0.01% will occur or how bad it will be. If you dont crash you are either not trying hard enough or dont commute enough”

I have ridden a 25-30mile commute 4-5 days a week for the last 7 years sans helmet.The one accident I had left me with a trashed shoulder and a fractured finger. Does this mean that I should wear body armour and iron man gloves just in case it happens again? If my son was stopping by the local jump spot to try and land a tail whip or something, I would encourage him to wear a helmet however, as he is only riding a mile or so along a pathway I see no potential for disaster and therefore do see the need for one.

Ah, now today I saw something that does annoy me- family out riding, dad telling kid “Put your helmet on or you’re not going”, was dad wearing one, no. If you’re going to boss your kids around, lead by example too, “Do as I say not as I do” is a crap way to act IMO.

Junkyard – Member

“For example if you wear a helmet and dont get injured as a result you dont tend to contact the hospital to tell them this. Those people “saved” by helemt use are therefore not in the statistics we then analyse.”

Of course. The counter to that is that if you just walked away, in all likelihood it wasn’t because of the helmet- they reduce injury * and that does mean that some minor injuries get reduced to nothing, but a minor concussion would tend to get reduced to a pretty nasty headache, bit of dizziness and confusion- ie stuff that people still tend to go to hospital about anyway, to get checked out.

(* IMO they reduce injury, etc etc)

Ah, now today I saw something that does annoy me- family out riding, dad telling kid “Put your helmet on or you’re not going”, was dad wearing one, no. If you’re going to boss your kids around, lead by example too, “Do as I say not as I do” is a crap way to act IMO

The dad has more experience riding a bike than the child, so is less likely to fall off.

When my kids were younger, I didn’t wear a nappy just because they had accidents.

Amusing but bad analogy.
I have more experience driving a car [therefore less likely to crash] than a 20 year old can I forgo a seatbelt?Speed limits?
Northwind I agreewith you FWIW

I have more experience driving a car [therefore less likely to crash] than a 20 year old can I forgo a seatbelt?Speed limits?

If you were talking about motorbikes, there are limits on the types of motorbike you can ride below certain age/experience levels. Same with flying planes. Could be argued that new drivers should be limited to driving unmodified, low-powered cars until they’re over-21 and have at least a couple of years experience driving.

Can certainly be argued that the point at which kids need more protection is different to adults. I don’t let my kids carry heavy things up and down stairs, and make them hold the bannister, but I do the opposite. I didn’t let my daughter get out of her depth in the swimming pool today, though I’d have been happy to do so myself.

Kids need more protection than adults. I don’t see why wearing a helmet on a bike is an exception to this.

My lad wears a helmet every time he rides his bike.
He also tells me off if I ride without one, even from the back gate to the shed.

If he falls off and bangs his head then hopefully it won’t hurt him as much.
That’s why I wear one too.

It’s our choice (he’s 4 so I’ve chosen for him) and it’s a simple one.

I hope he’ll always wear one but I won’t force him when he’s older…but I’ll take his wheels off and hide them until he does 🙂

Ah, now today I saw something that does annoy me- family out riding, dad telling kid “Put your helmet on or you’re not going”, was dad wearing one, no. If you’re going to boss your kids around, lead by example too, “Do as I say not as I do” is a crap way to act IMO
The dad has more experience riding a bike than the child, so is less likely to fall off.

When my kids were younger, I didn’t wear a nappy just because they had accidents.
miketually totally missing the point. When they’re in nappies, they don’t need persuading to wear one (or at least whether you’re wearing one or not is irrelevant). The likelihood of dad falling off is irrelevant – all he’s wearing one for is to set a good example.

Me and mini-aracer today. I’m not going to fall in out of one of those, and would happily paddle one on my own without a PFD, but have to set an example.

I should point out I’m far from being a helmet nazi, and very anti-compulsion. My reaction to the situation of the OP would be “good, kids riding to school”, but if you’re going to tell your kid to wear a bit of safety gear, don’t put yourself in the situation of having to explain why you’re not.

Ah, now today I saw something that does annoy me- family out riding, dad telling kid “Put your helmet on or you’re not going”, was dad wearing one, no. If you’re going to boss your kids around, lead by example too, “Do as I say not as I do” is a crap way to act IMO.

no no no no… don’t think you have kids do you? so i’ll be gentle with my reply

I never wear a helmet when I’m riding with kids. Being a responsible adult with exparience and common sense on my side the kids wear helmets if and when I deem it appropriate.

miketually totally missing the point. When they’re in nappies, they don’t need persuading to wear one (or at least whether you’re wearing one or not is irrelevant). The likelihood of dad falling off is irrelevant – all he’s wearing one for is to set a good example.

What is the point? Teaching them that cycling is an everyday, safe activity? One which can be done wearing normal clothing and without special equipment?

Me and mini-aracer today. I’m not going to fall in out of one of those, and would happily paddle one on my own without a PFD, but have to set an example.

What if you bang your head when falling out of the canoe?

Shoes are not always necessary. However I tend to wear them as a matter of course.

The problem I have with deciding when to wear a helmet and when not is that without being able to see the future you might make the wrong decision. You (or your kid) might be tootling along the pavement at 10mph and a car pulls out of a driveway, smack. I don’t see the point in conducting a mental risk assessment of the whole journey you plan to make any any other journeys you might make whilst out – just wear the damn thing.

I always wear one, it’s no different to wearing trousers now. Just do it, stop fannying about. It might save your life one day. Make it a habit and you’ll never forget that one crucial day when something unexpected happens. That’s kind of the thing about unexpected events, they are unexpected.

I always wear a seatbelt too. I know people who don’t always, and they are often forgetting when driving off onto a road. It’s as automatic for me as closing the door.

And I know someone will point out that I don’t wear one whilst walking. well walking is slower; there’s less wind noise in my ears allowing me to hear things; I can stop much more quickly and I have better peripheral awareness.

I don’t see the point in conducting a mental risk assessment of the whole journey

See.. having common sense, I always do.. it’s automatic, no different to wearing trousers 😕 and I find it far better than going around completely oblivious to risk expecting a polystyrene box on your head to save your life.

My kids school insists on helmets for kids who ride…I insist on my two wearing them…Mrs doesn’t tho!

I always wear one both on and off road and get a bit arsey with the couple of older roadies who dont wear one on club runs…my arguement being “it’s one of us who has to tell your Mrs you’ve had a head injury”, so it’s not just them it affects

Mates lad had an off at a skate park couple of weeks ago..no lid no brain/skulldamage…BUT will have a big scar across his forehead for the rest of his life…I’d like to stop that happening to mine!

See.. having common sense

Cos that always works!

I find it far better than going around completely oblivious to risk

That’s not what I am saying is it?

Cos that always works!

clearly not for everyone tho, eh? 😛

Not for anyone!

Common sense is just a way of saying that you can’t be bothered to think things through, imo.

I’m about to go to our staff room for a coffee. A bit of roof fell on someone’s head in there once, so I’m wearing my helmet just in case.

My uncle John came off his bike when he was 13, and hit his head on the kerb. He ended up brain damaged and unable to live an independant life – he lived with my grandparents until they died in their late 80s, then had to go into a care home. As a result I’d rather be safe than sorry.

common sense is knowing when to stop 😉

He ended up brain damaged and unable to live an independant life

See, we waffle on about choice til the cows come home, then there are stories like this 🙁

Has anyone pointed out the eagerness of the motor industry to get kids wearing helmets yet?

http://www.motoringassist.com/blog/2011/02/24/compulsory-cycle-helmets-uk-initiative/

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/volvo-promotes-cycle-helmets-for-children-26625

A cynical observer might think that they were out to portray cycling as dangerous and shift the blame for road accidents onto the victims…

See, we waffle on about choice til the cows come home, then there are stories like this

Somebody else’s uncle fell in the shower and ended up in the same situation.

Has anyone pointed out the eagerness of the motor industry to get kids wearing helmets yet?

Have you seen the GEM leaflet on safe cycling? Front cover shows family cycling, all very sensibly wearing hi-viz vests and helmets; the little lad at the front has his front brake disconnected.

Somebody else’s uncle fell in the shower and ended up in the same situation.

Oh right. So because one thing is dangerous, you don’t need to take simple steps to help protect another. I get it.

the little lad at the front has his front brake disconnected.

It’s for doing barspins, innit.

(Incidentally, hope all the “riding without a helmet is suicide” brigade never look at the BMX magazines when they’re in WH Smith. They’d probably have an aneurysm.)

Oh right. So because one thing is dangerous, you don’t need to take simple steps to help protect another. I get it.

Not at all. But taking one example and using it as a reason for blanket behavioural change is a nonsense.

Statistically, the wearing of helmets makes a negligible effect upon the overall health of the population.

A far greater effect is found from people believing that it is too dangerous to ride or walk, so they’ll take the car. Bleating on about helmets has this effect; we then end up with overweight adults dying early.

When I see a kid riding to school, I think it’s great. I don’t care whether or not they’re wearing a helmet, because an inactive lifestyle is far more likely to lead to their premature death than a head injury.

Ditto for parent riding; they’re setting a good example by riding. I don’t care whether or not they’re wearing helmets.

Not at all. But taking one example and using it as a reason for blanket behavioural change is a nonsense.

Actually, I found seeing a man in his 50s with a mental age of 9 to be a pretty compelling reason for me to wear a helmet. A seatbelt might not save me in a car crash, and I might still slip in the bathroom despite using non-slip mats – the fact that bad things can still happen despite being sensible and taking precautions doesn’t mean the precautions are worthless, especially when there’s no downside to it (apart from helmet hair).

But taking one example and using it as a reason for blanket behavioural change is a nonsense.

You think that’s only happened once?

Statistically, the wearing of helmets makes a negligible effect upon the overall health of the population.

Depends how you do the statistics. I would suggest that (if you post the same stupid links again TJ I will brain you) if you take the population having head impacts that it would make a significant difference.

Bleating on about helmets has this effect

I don’t bleat on about helmets to anyone ever apart from on STW threads where it comes up.

But really – if someone’s all set to get out on their bike and someone says ‘you should wear a helmet’ are they really going to think ‘oh well screw that then’ ?

If a person is that easily dissuaded then I’m sure they wouldn’t commit to cycling as a means of transport for long.

Actually, I found seeing a man in his 50s with a mental age of 9 to be a pretty compelling reason for me to wear a helmet. A seatbelt might not save me in a car crash, and I might still slip in the bathroom despite using non-slip mats – the fact that bad things can still happen despite being sensible and taking precautions doesn’t mean the precautions are worthless, especially when there’s no downside to it (apart from helmet hair).

I’m sure it did. I’m not saying anyone shouldn’t wear helmets or that helmets are vbad.

My mum did a lot of work in an adult neuro ward. She always cuts grapes in half for kids, after seeing the number of kids with brain damage after choking on grapes. How many people on here cut their kids’ grapes in half?

But really – if someone’s all set to get out on their bike and someone says ‘you should wear a helmet’ are they really going to think ‘oh well screw that then’ ?

The perception of danger does put people off riding. That’s a given, isn’t it?

You think that’s only happened once?

I reckon it’s happened less than the number of people who’ve ended up with brain injuries doing things other than cycling, which could have been prevented by cycle helmets.

I’m buying a motoring helmet tomorrow. Far more head injuries in cars than on bikes.

What is the point? Teaching them that cycling is an everyday, safe activity? One which can be done wearing normal clothing and without special equipment?

Still missing the point. See the footnote to my post: it’s not an argument about whether you should make your kids wear helmets or not, but if you’re going to tell them to wear one, wear one yourself.

What if you bang your head when falling out of the canoe?

Did you read what you replied to? I suppose if I fell out (which I’m not going to) I might bang my head. But I’m not going to fall out. Did I mention yet that I’m not going to fall out of one of those?

What about shark attacks aracer? You would feel silly then wouldn’t you?

“What about shark attacks aracer? You would feel silly then wouldn’t you?”

This is why I always stick an AK47 down my red lycra tights when going near a canoe.

This thread seems to have now veered slightly off the original topic.

Are you suggesting a helmet would prevent a shark attack, or just that it would prevent any injuries from one? This is obviously a very important issue for me when paddling on the river Severn, given the problems we have with sharks.

aracer – Member

Are you suggesting a helmet would prevent a shark attack, or just that it would prevent any injuries from one?

I don’t know? Do we have any stats?

Anecdotally, not wearing a helmet whilst paddling a canoe has resulted in zero incidence of shark attack. I’m far too worried about a helmet attracting the sharks to risk wearing one. I did used to wear a helmet to play canoe polo in swimming pools and never got attacked, but then I was always there with other people, so I reckon the number of boats scared them off. Also never got attacked wearing a helmet paddling down whitewater rivers, but those always had multi-coloured poles hanging above them, doubtless acting as an effective shark deterrent. Don’t have either of those to protect me on the river Severn, so I hope you understand my concern.

My uncle was killed when an artic failed to acknowledge his presence at a roundabout. A helmet didn’t save him. It bears little relevance to the discussion, but as we’re sharing emotive stories then I thought I’d share this.

More people are killed by coconuts each year than sharks. So, you don’t need to wear the helmet in the canoe, just when you get out at the beach.