Joe Biden does a Trump

I am not a massive fan of the American model but surely the President of the United States cannot find someone guilty, only a court of law can do that? So I don’t know what this Trump going after Hunter implies.

BBC News stated that the pardon is quite wide ranging and extends back 10 years covering some supposedly dodgy business deals (Ukraine was mentioned).

Presumably Trump could have gone after him for these.

Because the rules of the game have changed.

What rules of the game have changed ?

And why did Joe Biden not envisage these rule changes when he made his firm and public commitment not to pardon Hunter?

Joe Biden in politician breaks promises shocker….

Presumably Trump could have gone after him for these.

Yeah I can see that but Trump cannot find someone guilty. Hunter would presumably only be convicted if found guilty by a court of law.

What is the reason that he shouldn’t face justice?

And interesting comment here by a loyal Democrat supporting newspaper :

https://archive.li/2024.12.02-025325/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/01/us/politics/biden-hunter-pardon-politics.html

President Biden and President-elect Donald J. Trump now agree on one thing: The Biden Justice Department has been politicized.

The prosecutions of Mr. Trump and the younger Mr. Biden were each handled by separate special counsels appointed specifically to insulate the cases from politics and senior department officials have denied that politics entered the equation against either man.

Mr. Biden’s pardon will make it harder for Democrats to defend the integrity of the Justice Department and stand against Mr. Trump’s unapologetic plans to use it for political purposes even as he seeks to install Kash Patel, an adviser who has vowed to “come after” the president-elect’s enemies, as the next director of the F.B.I.

It will also be harder for Democrats to criticize Mr. Trump for his prolific use of the pardon power to absolve friends and allies, some of whom could have been witnesses against him in previous investigations.

What is the reason that he shouldn’t face justice?

Because if you put enough resources into chasing anyone you will find them guilty of something?

Ultimately I disagree with Bidens choice but I can see why he did it.

A large portion of the US public has demonstrated it isnt fussed about the rule of law and are happy with a self serving president so why should he disagree with that?

The damage done to the democrats is probably balanced in his mind by the fact they kicked him out and, again in his mind, put his son into this position anyway.

The damage done to the democrats is probably balanced in his mind by the fact they kicked him out and, again in his mind, put his son into this position anyway.

Yeah I reckon I probably agree with that.

Although I am not so sure I agree that the United State’s legal system is so deeply flawed that if they put enough resources into chasing an innocent person they will eventually be found guilty.

Well not unless they are black and without a pot to piss in.

And how many European monarchies ended with the monarch’s head on a spike?

Is the answer ‘not enough’?

Although I am not so sure I agree that the United State’s legal system is so deeply flawed that if they put enough resources into chasing an innocent person they will eventually be found guilty.

The trial process is only the end stage of a prolonged game of legal harassment that can involve investigations by various agencies headed by Trump appointees, or even Congressional probes which are nakedly political. Even once it gets to court, politically-appointed judges get to rule on defence and prosecution motions to include or exclude evidence and witnesses, or attempts to delay or expedite trial (see Judge Cannon’s successful antics which helped kill a case against Trump in Florida).

A Trump-appointed judge gets to sum-up the case and give directions to a jury (which will likely have been bombarded with biased media coverage), and of course, decides on sentencing. I don’t share your faith that even an innocent Hunter Biden would get much of a fair trial.

EDIT: And as for the Democrats losing the moral high ground, they’ve been clutching pearls about Republican abuses of power for years, doesn’t seem to have caught the imagination of the electorate. Perhaps it’s time to try something different.

I don’t share your faith that even an innocent Hunter Biden would get much of a fair trial.

Well it wasn’t me who made that claim, it was Joe Biden himself who made it. Did you see the Biden quote I posted earlier?

Joe Biden has obviously done his son a big favour, he has also done Donald Trump a big favour, and he has no favours at all for the Democrat politicians he is leaving behind to deal with the incoming second Trump presidency. It all sounds a tad selfish, even if maybe understandable.

Global politics is getting very surreal, distopian and worrying in general.

It’s a bad look for Biden.. *Depending* on your perspective!

Trump has already as good as squashed all the criminal charges of financial fraud, sexual abuse and election fraud against him, so he’s essentially got off scot free.

Put yourself in Bidens shoes… He’s basically got nothing to lose, so why not?

Now Trump will not only become president.. The courts and both houses are loaded with MAGA loyalists… Trump has carte blanch to rip up the rule book however he feels like.

Very scarey times indeed.

Put yourself in Bidens shoes… He’s basically got nothing to lose, so why not?

Yep. Not surprised at all that he’s done this.

 he has no favours at all for the Democrat politicians he is leaving behind

I expect he’s still pissed off with them for forcing him to stand down as candidate, maybe even thinks he could have won.

Yeah it’s not ideal, but tomorrow’s chip wrappers and all that.

I suppose a big lesson for other countries is to keep the judiciary and the government completely seperate and independent.

I have nothing to add, apart from

Joe Biden does a Trump

Trump went after Michael Cohen even after he was in jail, having him put into solitary and trying to ban his book.

It’s not hard to imagine he would have done the same to Biden given the opportunity.

he has also done Donald Trump a big favour, and he has no favours at all for the Democrat politicians he is leaving behind to deal with the incoming second Trump presidency.

The tit for tat Presidential pardons game where Republicans loose their mind over Democrat pardons and vice versa has gone on for decades now, Biden pardoning his son won’t have moved the dial past a couple of days of faux outrage from Fox who turned a blind eye to pardoning actual war crimes All which makes a bit of drugs and guns look a bit tame by comparison.

The rich and powerful are above the law.

Biden looks incredibly stupid and hypocritical.

Trump did similar Kushner.

What I didn’t realise that Presidents pardon 100’s of people during their time in office. Why?

I’m amazed that after you wrote the last two sentence you didn’t reconsider what you’d said in the first two…

In Biden’s place, with Trump coming in would you have not?

What rules of the game have changed ?

And why did Joe Biden not envisage these rule changes when he made his firm and public commitment not to pardon Hunter?

Are you for real, have you got no grasp of the seriousness of the situation?

If Hunter went to jail he’d have been Epstein’ed or hooked on drugs and what father would choose that option when he can pardon his son and save him.

Despite what public good Biden has done over his lifetime in service and the previous 4years as president I’ll always now think of him as Genocide Joe the enabler of Netanyahu and his goon squads.

If I was Biden, I’d be keeping my son out of the country, never mind the courts, for the next four years.

Are you for real, have you got no grasp of the seriousness of the situation?

Well I could ask exactly the same question of you.

The New York Times, which has endorsed every Democrat candidate since 1960, is highly critical of Joe Biden’s decision to pardon his son because of the political damage it is likely to do.

Do you think they have no grasp of the seriousness of the situation……are they for real?

Presumably you never read their comment piece so here it is again:

https://archive.li/2024.12.02-025325/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/01/us/politics/biden-hunter-pardon-politics.html

I am not asking you to agree with it but the idea that anyone who doesn’t agree with you doesn’t understand the seriousness of the situation is absurd.

I would still be interested in knowing how the rules have changed. The New York Times might be too.

I read that there were questions about the enthusiasm H Bidens crimes were prosecuted with. Basically (if I remember correctly) the lying on the gun application happens all the time but is hardly ever prosecuted carries 20+years. And the tax one is not chased immediately usually if the debtor has had illness/addiction problems. Allegedly persons on the hill made sure that the full extent the law was used for crimes that usually don’t even get to court.

It’s this evenings chip wrappers by the time the next elect omes round. In fact I’d bet it’s not even on anyone’s top 100 discussion points.

Despite what public good Biden has done over his lifetime in service and the previous 4years as president I’ll always now think of him as Genocide Joe the enabler of Netanyahu and his goon squads.

You think a different US President would’ve done anything different over the last year or 2?

The NYT also called for Biden to step down as candidate, so I doubt he gives much thought to their views on his pardoning.

Interesting List:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_or_granted_clemency_by_the_president_of_the_United_States

The rules have changed because lying, cheating, corruption, nepotism, bribery and stupidity have become the norm within American democracy. Farage et al are working hard to make that the case here in the UK too.

The guide rails that held the Democrats and Republicans in line are gone. We can no longer rely on the ‘good chap’ rules that helped all sides stay within acceptable boundaries.

We can no longer rely on the ‘good chap’ rules that helped all sides stay within acceptable boundaries.

I think you’ll find those disappeared here around 2018, along with any willingness to adhere to the Ministerial Code.

As a president disappointing but soon he’ll just be a Dad.

I can forgive this act as a president but if he’d let his son rot at Trump’s pleasure? As a Dad?

Totally unforgivable.

Biden did the right thing in a messed up situation.

The world isn’t black and white. It just isn’t.

The Tories are nowhere near as bad as Trump’s New Republicans.

General incompetence is their problem, not batshit craziness.

Trump has carte blanch to rip up the rule book however he feels like.

Very scarey times indeed

Anyone think he’ll try a Xi Jinping a remove the 2 term limit?

Anyone think he’ll try a Xi Jinping a remove the 2 term limit?

Its an amendment so pretty much a losing battle.

Having his son declared official heir on the other hand.

Basically (if I remember correctly) the lying on the gun application happens all the time but is hardly ever prosecuted carries 20+years.

Remember though the republicans are firm supporters of gun control so its a perfectly logical position for them to take.

I do wonder what would happen if they tested Trump Jnr for drugs bearing in mind he likes hunting so has almost certainly filled out the gun application form the same way.

The Tories are nowhere near as bad as Trump’s New Republicans.

Yet.

Anyone think he’ll try a Xi Jinping a remove the 2 term limit?

It’s a dead cert… I’ll bet you a tenner.

EDIT: actually no..

As @ dissonance said, Trump as an individual isn’t the big issue here, given his age and mental state it’s highly likely he won’t be alive or in a fit mental state to continue.

The bet has to be more nuanced…what we have here is a president setting a president!

Trump is just a sacrificial gargoyle, on the front of a much more sinister battering ram for what’s lined up.

Would I have done it for my offspring? 100%, but I’m not exactly morally wholesome.

The amusing thing is that the ‘oh so holier than thou’ hand wringing majority on here are trying to justify it as morally acceptable.

Hilarious this place

Trump has already as good as squashed all the criminal charges of financial fraud, sexual abuse and election fraud against him, so he’s essentially got off scot free.

Put yourself in Bidens shoes… He’s basically got nothing to lose, so why not?

Now Trump will not only become president.. The courts and both houses are loaded with MAGA loyalists… Trump has carte blanch to rip up the rule book however he feels like.

Trump has already stated that he’s going to use whatever means he has at his disposal to chase down and prosecute everyone who he feels has said bad things about him, he’s putting a crony in charge of the FBI which will become Diaper Don’s personal instrument of retribution, America will become virtually indistinguishable from Russia from next January.
If I was the Bidens, I’d already have a foreign bolt hole set up and be having second thoughts about physically handing over to Don on the 20th, instead doing it via a Teams call.

The NYT also called for Biden to step down as candidate, so I doubt he gives much thought to their views on his pardoning.

No doubt Biden isn’t giving much thought to the damage that he is doing to the Democrats or smug satisfaction that this particular U-turn is giving Trump.

Is that suppose to somehow justify what he has done?

Despite what public good Biden has done over his lifetime in service and the previous 4years as president I’ll always now think of him as Genocide Joe the enabler of Netanyahu and his goon squads.

You think a different US President would’ve done anything different over the last year or 2?

For sure. It obviously depends on who might be US president at the time but I can think of at least two former US presidents who suspended arms sales to Israel because of Israel’s behaviour towards Palestinians, Ronald Reagan and Barack Obama.

U.S. SUSPENDS STRATEGIC PACT AND ARMS DEAL WITH ISRAEL OVER ANNEXATION OF GOLAN

Israeli official confirms US nixed arms shipment; pols argue over who’s to blame

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-official-confirms-us-nixed-missile-sale-pm-blamed-for-soured-ties/

Numerous US officials say the Gaza violence “has persuaded them that Mr. Netanyahu and his national security team are both reckless and untrustworthy,” the Wall Street Journal reported.

Joe Biden during the presidential campaign claimed that no US president had done more for Israel than he had done. He wasn’t kidding.

How can the world trust the words from US President?