Jesus Christ

Still waiting for an answer to the “worshipping” thing…

I don’t think you are. Not really. 🙂

However, my question was, why do you need to “worship” at all?,

It’s your choice. If you believe that God did actually create this world then you would want to. If you don’t then clearly you wouldn’t. One of the simpler choices and you are actually given the choice

you are actually given the choice

That depends entirely on the religion in question, n’est-ce pas?

Woppit; why do you constantly feel the need to belittle and show no respect for others’ views at all?

Woppit has to admit defeat here. Elfin has a long track record of tolerance towards peoples beliefs.

I know there truly is a God when I’m treated to an amusing helping of pot/kettle on here.

Elfin FTW. 8)

Elfin has a long track record of tolerance towards peoples beliefs.

Erm, I do actually, this is true. Find me something where I’ve insulted someone’s religious beliefs.

See, what you don’t get, Trailmonkey, is while I fully admit to criticising others’ views and opinions, I still at all times try to show respect. When people are being deliberately insulting or offensive, I will try to use their own weakness against them. If they then become angry because they feel I’ve made them look foolish, then maybe they should consider that they’ve actually made themselves look foolish; I’m merely pointing this out to them. That’s perhaps why STW gets so many complaints about me; from irate folk unable to control their rage against me. ‘Ooh I’ll complain and then hopefully he’ll get banned’. Cowardly and pathetic.

Granted, I’m not always the epitome of tact and diplomacy, but I don’t abuse and insult others in the same way that some people do. I think you need a reasonably thick skin to engage in debate on the internet, but I don’t see why you should have to endure abuse and ridicule just for your beliefs.

Woppit has been banned for previous insulting and offensive comments/threads that have been deliberately engineered to provoke angry reaction. I have never been banned for making offensive or abusive comments.

Anyway, you know what? Woppit don’t bother me. I find him interesting’ he’s a ‘character’ for sure. I harbour no anger or hate toward him, or indeed anyone off here. Life’s too short. I’m too busy getting angry and worked up in real life, without hating folk off the internet! 😀

Personally, I like to discuss things over a pint. But maybe that’s just me…

Live and let live, eh? People wanna believe in something you find weird or preposterous, as long as it’s not affecting you in a detrimental manner, then let ’em be happy. I don’t see any religious people on here not wanting anyone to be happy.

I saw a sign like this at Heathrow today. It made me smile.

Just stumbled across this, looking for something else unrelated. Thought I’d share.

Not quite sure why you think that I find other peoples views weird or preposterous Elf ?
You seem to be making presumptions about my lack of faith that I could easily find disrespectful.

Ah, but that’s suggesting that Science and Religion are similar methods of trying to gain understanding. One deals with logic and reason, the other is more concerned with the spiritual. It’s good to have both.

Science doesn’t have all the answers. Scientific application is responsible for more deaths than religion; nobody prayed and lo! an atomic bomb was created…

Not quite sure why you think that I find other peoples views weird or preposterous Elf ?
You seem to be making presumptions about my lack of faith that I could easily find disrespectful.

I’m not. Im suggesting that a person might find others’ views weird or preposterous. I’m not saying you actually do, or don’t.

I have no idea what faith, if any, you actually have.

Science doesn’t have all the answers

No-one is suggesting it does; otherwise, it’d stop.

So, should Religion stop then?

I think some on here would like to see it abolished. I wouldn’t. I find the quest for spiritual enlightenment fascinating.

I have to say I have shied away from this thread ‘cos I could see it was going to get nasty and despite my debating yesterday I do understand the difference between debating a religion and insulting its adherents.

This thread has gone IMO from debating religion to insulting its adherent – altho it is a very hard line to draw especially as the defence of religion some come out with is so farcical

I find the quest for spiritual enlightenment fascinating.

Was that Star Trek III or IV ?

I wouldn’t like to see religion abolished.

I would like to see people have better deductive reasoning though. Then religion will die out of its own accord. Fortunately, I believe in evolution, so that’s only a matter of time.

Was that Star Trek III or IV ?

It was Red Dwarf I think.

Woppit – interesting your first post on this thread should mention me. Fancy meeting ME for a pint then, or would that involve more pins in the eyes?

It would seem that the eternal schism twixt science and religion is in danger of being healed by the universal constant of beer…

Which is a bit of a miracle, tbh.

Fortunately, I believe in evolution

Really?

Hmm….

Cougar, i too thought it was Red Dwarf, but it was the just the name of a holoship.

Unfortunately i have been watching alot of the show recently which led to my attempt to add a little light heartedness to this deep thread, by asking if anybody wanted some toast.

It was all prompted by a conversation with a toaster.

Talkie Toaster: Very well. I have a third question. A sensible question. A question that will tax your new I.Q. to its very limits and stretch the sinews of you knowledge to bursting point.
Holly: This is going to be about waffles, isn’t it?
Talkie Toaster: Certainly not. And I resent the implication that I’m a one-dimensional, bread-obsessed electrical appliance.
Holly: I apologise, toaster. What’s the question?
Talkie Toaster: The question is this: Given that God is infinite, and that the universe is also infinite… would you like a toasted teacake?
Holly: That’s another bready question.
Talkie Toaster: It’s not just bready. It’s quite curranty, too.

Of course, nobody will be interested in the least about a TV show, the thread about a Book.

I think you’ll find that the theory of evolution is reinforced by the presence of a missing link.

Sharki – I got that, hence the waffle reply.

Where I was going just now was the Holoship, quote somthing like “we find clothes to be a distraction from the pursuit of intellectual and spriritual fulfillment” – (Cat) “well, I find intellectual and spriritual fulfillment to be a distraction from the pursuit of clothes!” … or something.

(So, what is it?)

You’d rather blind yourself than meet someone you’ve never met? Who you have no idea as to their character other than the persona you perceive on an internet forum?

And you call others ‘irrational’???
wow steady there he has apoint there you are a **** after all 😉

One deals with logic and reason, the other is more concerned with the spiritual. It’s good to have both.

Well only if there is such a thing as a spiritual world. Other than people telling me they have faith – ie their opinion- they cannot present anything tangible we agree on. However we debate this there is a god or there is not one side must be right. I assume we all agree on that point. They both attempt to describe reality so we must choose the more accurate account

a white hole!

Spewing time back into the universe?

Yes, as opposed to a black hole which sucks matter from the universe.
For each action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

…………but what is it ?

I’ve never seen one before, no-one has, but I’m guessing it’s a white hole.

so what is it?

only joking! 😆

Somebody punch him out.

(incidentally, thanks for confirming my theory that “so what is it?” is capable of derailing any conversation ever)

there was a conversation?

Yes. I think we’ve just encountered the middle of it.

I’m guessing it’s either prayer time, or Everyone is meeting up for a pint with Elfin.

I’d quite like to go for a pint with them both:

“David and Nigel Woppit anf the Elf are like poets, you know, like Shelley or Byron, or people like that. The two totally distinct types of visionaries, it’s like fire and ice, and I feel my role in the band is to be kind of the middle of that, kind of like lukewarm water.”

So, what is it?

Is it a Baby Robin?

Veering dangerously back on topic…

God was a busy chap. Check this out.

http://primaxstudio.com/stuff/scale_of_universe/index.php

Mark – Resident Grumpy

I’ve heard it said that atheism is ‘just like a religion’.. Well at least not in the eyes of the government it isn’t who won’t give the same tax breaks and charitable status to the humanist society.

…………….When I say that I’m fine living alongside people of faith as a personal choice so long as it does not impact on my choices and freedoms, it is this sort of example that makes me want to argue back against ‘organised’ religion

So what’s all this about then ? ……… from the British Humanist Association website :

“If you are a UK tax payer you can significantly increase the value of your donation with Gift Aid at no extra cost.

UK Tax payers can increase the value of their donation by 28p for every £1 given by selecting the box below. You must pay an amount on income tax and / or capital gains tax at least equal to the tax that the charity reclaims on your donations in the tax year.

I want the British Humanist Association to reclaim tax on all of my donations”

http://www.humanism.org.uk/donate

Having pointed that out, can I take it that you now no longer want to argue back against ‘organised’ religion ?

Or I am right in suspecting that your little rant about the Humanist Association not receiving tax relief was simply a desperate attempt to justify what you know to be wholly unacceptable prejudices towards people with religious views ?

I’m sure find another excuse for not being ‘fine about living alongside people of faith’

One which doesn’t in anyway question your liberal credentials ……….of course.

I think you’ll find that the theory of evolution is reinforced by the presence of a missing link.

Eh? How can something ‘missing’ have a presence? According to science, the existence of something must be proven before it can be said to ‘exist’, right?

Just because you can’t prove something exists, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. It only means we haven’t found it yet.

Well only if there is such a thing as a spiritual world. Other than people telling me they have faith – ie their opinion- they cannot present anything tangible we agree on. However we debate this there is a god or there is not one side must be right. I assume we all agree on that point. They both attempt to describe reality so we must choose the more accurate account

What if the answer lies so far beyond the powers of Human Comprehension and Understanding, that we, as one single species in the entire infinite vastness of the Universe (is it truly infinite? Is it? Has this been ‘proven’? Well has it?) can never know it?

Like, what if a caveman is charged with building a computer? Or, Hora working out which forks actually suit his bike? Maybe it’s just an impossible task. Fun giving it a go though. I think that’s what drives us as a unique species on. And what makes us unique and distinct from all others on our planet.

And it means bargain forks for many people.