Is the grass greener in North Wales?

What about somewhere more towards Flintshire way?

I think this – or Denbigh which is a really lovely area with proper riding right on your doorstep. And the A55 would give you quick access to Liverpool/Manchester areas with associated work potential.

and ignore all the “I walked into a pub…” anecdotes

Why do you want him to ignore one part of the equation?
That’s a silly thing to say.

My knowledge is really out of date now, but I lived in one of the small villages outside Bethesda and did my secondary schooling in Bangor through the 90’s.  I really wouldn’t worry about the location ruining your kids future.  The bright kids with motivated parents always do well, my school gang are now vets, doctors, barristers, professor at Oxford Uni etc.

It was a great place to do my teenage years.  Yes, I had to jump on my bike to go and see my nearest mate 2 miles away, and the winters were sometimes long, but the memories that hang around are all on bikes, or climbing days, or mucking around at the lakes.  On balance all positive.

I didn’t really get far with Welsh, but if you get stuck into the PTA/clubs/community things being English is quickly forgiven.

If our careers allowed we’d be back there like a shot.

What did someone say about locals getting annoyed with incomers and visitors not being in tune with local stuff that goes on?

It’s the locals putting it on Strava, do they not understand the concept of the internet?

I’d approach with caution, I get that house price inflation will mean that you will never be able to return to a similar situation that you are now but that’s not everything.

You maybe lucky and reset your family life and create a great future

You may also find that you land in place where incomers are increasingly resented with uninformed prejudices and a fear of a loss of Welshness, native speakers and culture. The sort of thing in Rochdale would get you called a biggot….

Or a welcoming community that sees people choosing to move there a good thing

As always it’s location, location, location

“where incomers are increasingly resented with uninformed prejudices and a fear of a loss of Welshness, native speakers and culture. The sort of thing in Rochdale would get you called a biggot….”

I generally steer well clear of these sorts of threads on here and stick to bike stuff, but as a Welsh person this quote has genuinely upset me. I’m not going to get into a debate on here, but I will simply say that please do some thinking and research into the issues minority languages like Welsh and also rural areas generally are facing. I’m not sure what these “uninformed prejudices” are, but it seems to me that it’s that quote that’s uninformed.

Local people being priced out of the housing market is not a North Walian or even a Welsh issue, its an issue many more rural areas are facing (e.g. parts of Cornwall, Simon Reeve has commented on similar issues up in Cumbria), yet I don’t see the people in these places being called biggots. The “fear of loss” of the Welsh language is real, and the fact that my son may well be last generation of his family that can actually live his life in any way through the language of his forefathers of hundreds of years is not a nice thought I can tell you. If you want to belittle someone’s heritage that’s up to you, but I for one don’t like to see different cultures and languages die out, wherever they may be.

A minority language such as Welsh can be the heart of a community, more than just a collection of words, and if you can’t see why the thought of losing hundreds of years of heritage is something that worries some people then there’s nothing I can say.

If you moved to, say, France, Italy, Germany, Austria etc would you just expect everyone else to just speak English (and please don’t say “yes but everyone in Wales can speak English” – this is not a valid argument, otherwise you may as well argue for all languages other than English to be scrapped).

The the OP, take the stories of being made to feel unwelcome because of the backwards funny speaking locals with a huge pinch of salt. Trust me. It’s no different to anywhere else in the world, if you move somewhere and are friendly and show even just a little willingness to integrate (not just linguistically), you’ll get along great.

I don’t have a problem with learning the language that would enable me to communicate with my neighbours. But I would never be a native speaker nor have those hundreds of years of language in my family

The Welsh language is stitched into education and very clearly into public sector jobs, employment by the state is often reliant on Welsh language ability. Welsh is growing as a language according to the Welsh government. Arguably you are in the middle of a renaissance of Welsh as a central part of living in Wales

I suppose I could paraphrase a perspective on what you are saying

“You can’t say anything about the immigrants because you’re saying that you’re … but all these English what are coming in, where are they flocking from?”

The sort of thing in Rochdale would get you called a biggot….

I was thinking about this thread, and the very strong vibes that you needed to learn the language to be accepted, or outsiders not welcome.

I thought about this and my home town of Bradford. Start saying stuff like that in Bradford and you are called a racist, no matter how true the statement may be about being fully integrated in to a community.

Arguably you are in the middle of a renaissance of Welsh as a central part of living in Wales

Hmm, and yet Welsh speakers still feel threatened. A slight upturn in numbers isn’t necessarily enough to offset hundreds of years of overt attempts at eradication.

I’m not a Welsh speaker so my opinion on the subject is not particularly important; however I do try to listen to the complaints of those who are.

The “fear of loss” of the Welsh language is real, and the fact that my son may well be last generation of his family that can actually live his life in any way through the language of his forefathers of hundreds of years is not a nice thought I can tell you

And yet Welsh is much more widely spoken today than it was when I first visited in the 1960s. It’s a very difficult balance. My family have some history as colonialists as my great-grandfather built a holiday home in Abersoch in the late 1920s. I spent my summer holidays there all through my childhood and took my children there most years right up until the house was sold a couple of years ago. I saw the poverty in the 1960s as many of the holidaymakers deserted Wales in favour of cheap package holidays to somewhere warmer, just as the small scale fishing also became unviable. And I saw some money return from the mid-90s as Abersoch became trendy again – some of this money went to the local population, but a disappointing proportion of it didn’t. It’s a reality that rural communities in Wales or anywhere else will never be rich, the young will always have to leave to seek their fortune. How you can ensure that the area benefits from the money incomers can bring without losing the character that attracts them in the first place will always be a difficult question. Making their children learn Welsh is certainly part of the answer, and maybe the whole picture will change as more and more work becomes location independent. But none of this is black and white, and there will always be unexpected consequences to anything you try and do.

Sorry; but all I did was look on the public internet as anyone else could have done.

No worries, a minor complaint on my behalf but I’d have more to say if there were trails there and I had built them. Everything we do, from turning Strava data into words that people can find via Google, or influencers posting videos, all amplifies already-public information which makes it more discoverable by more people.

It’s the locals putting it on Strava, do they not understand the concept of the internet?

Many people won’t be aware of the heatmap feature, or won’t realise the impact of their contributing to it. Regardless of who started it, amplifying IMO isn’t a good thing to do.

It’s a reality that rural communities in Wales or anywhere else will never be rich, the young will always have to leave to seek their fortune.

Oh I don’t know – sure, there aren’t enough people for large industrial enterprises (outside the SE anyway) and there isn’t the infrastructure (outside SE and the N coast) but there are people, there’s fibre, and there’s education. There’s no reason you couldn’t create high value jobs if you really wanted to.

the young will always have to leave to seek their fortune.

But can they now come back when they’re reaching middle age, buy the expensive houses and WFH?

Hmm, and yet Welsh speakers still feel threatened. A slight upturn in numbers isn’t necessarily enough to offset hundreds of years of overt attempts at eradication.

Turned around by a conservative government I believe….

I would humbly suggest that those who fear for Welsh language and culture worry more about Netflix, Amazon, Disney+ than people who decide to move there and make Wales their home. The majority will have lots of goodwill and be more than keen to settle in, learning the language, local history etc. The exec’s in the states won’t give a toss.

As for those who don’t try when they move to Wales, don’t take it personally, they are exported to Spain as well.

But can they now come back when they’re reaching middle age, buy the expensive houses and WFH?

I thought that was the model for those who focus in a career in London. Make the money and connections, start a family, move away by the time the kids reach school age buying a locally expensive house in cash and working as a consultant….

Well it’s what the brother in law did