Is NRW About To Close Coed Y Brenin?

According to several reports we have seen, it’s looking very likely that in the short term, several trail centres, including Coed y Brenin and Nant yr …

By chipps

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Is NRW About To Close Coed Y Brenin?

Yikes. Donated!

Unfortunately the mismanagement by NRW of the  centres over the last few years makes this no surprise. They are always busy yet lose £400k …

one can only hope that the centres can be taken over by non Governmental companies that will have the freedom to manage them in a more effective way.

one can only hope that the centres can be taken over by non Governmental companies that will have the freedom to manage them in a more effective way.

It’s been sounding very hard for community groups (like the one for CyB, which includes councillors and involved businesses) to get any sense of cooperation/interest out of NRW in the last year that they’ve been trying to propose an alternative to NRW running of the trail centres…

Had we stayed in the EU, perhaps some of these trail centres would have benefited from (further? *) EU funding ?

* – don’t know if these particular ones had EU funding in the past. I know I’ve seem some others with EU funding signs.

Is this closure as in kick everyone out or just the facilities such as shop/cafe/toilets etc?

Trail centres were great for a while in the 2000s – 2010s and did a great job of attracting people from outside a remote area to travel and spend money there, due to the lack of good local riding for many living elsewhere.

However they haven’t kept up with the changes to modern mtbing demands for your average punter. They want enduro and bike park tracks.

The trail centres, which used to have a significant  advantage on trails, don’t anymore. Instead, they now have a significant disadvantage on travel time and quality of trails.

More modern, grass roots rider built or commercial tracks have popped up anywhere there is a major population and any bit of gradient. Local landowners seem to be more relaxed and allowing of this. See all the stuff around Sheffield, tweed valley, and south Wales for example. This has eaten the old trail centres’ lunch.

Sad, but that’s the way the wind blows, I’m not that surprised.

. Seen the other thread.

I think its the building rather that the trails itself.

Imo a simple building with a cafe, bike shop and toilets are all thats required.

The trail centres, which used to have a significant advantage on trails, don’t anymore. Instead, they now have a significant disadvantage on travel time and quality of trails.

More modern, grass roots rider built or commercial tracks have popped up anywhere there is a major population and any bit of gradient. Local landowners seem to be more relaxed and allowing of this. See all the stuff around Sheffield, tweed valley, and south Wales for example. This has eaten the old trail centres’ lunch.

I think what you have written is true. But i don’t think that’s the issue here. No one is saying the issue is visitor numbers. I don’t think the visitor centre at CYB adds much. The cafe and bike shop are handy to have.

Story updated with statement from Robbie George, Director of Development & Events at Beicio Cymru, who has been working with stakeholders across Wales to develop mountain biking:

“The recent news regarding potential redundancies at NRW sites across Wales, including Coed y Brenin and Nant yr Arian, is indeed concerning and our first thoughts are with those at risk of losing their jobs. Coed y Brenin is not just Europe’s first dedicated trail centre and a premier trail centre but a vital economic driver, attracting around 100,000 visitors annually and supporting numerous local jobs. The mountain biking industry significantly contributes to the Welsh economy, with centres like Coed y Brenin exemplifying how local community assets can be huge economic drivers through tourism.

To protect our green spaces and ensure their availability for future generations, we must prioritise the development and maintenance of trail centres, which includes having attractive services at sites to provide jobs as well as service tourists. This involves securing adequate funding and fostering partnerships with local communities and businesses. Investing in these recreational hubs not only promotes physical well-being but also sustains economic vitality in rural areas.

Whilst we have assurances from NRW that the trails and networks at Coed y Brenin & wider will continue to be served, we are concerned that investment in the trails will not be what it has been due to the funding challenges NRW faces. We urge NRW to work collaboratively, as outlined in their Recreation Strategy, and at pace with the brilliant volunteers and trail groups that continue to show willing to manage these trails for the benefit of future generations.  We are concerned that the thriving local bike businesses, including shops, coaches and leading businesses will be negatively impacted by the reduced services available at these centres which will undoubtedly impact footfall. As well as sourcing commercial operators to manage the visitor centre, they must also ensure main attraction – the unbelievable forest and trails – is maintained and developed.

Wales simply cannot afford to lose these vital centres full stop, but the decline of the trails in recent years is noticeable. We are already losing market share to Scotland and elsewhere in Europe, it cannot be allowed to decline further.

Beicio Cymru stands committed to collaborating with stakeholders to secure the future of Coed y Brenin and similar facilities across Wales.”

I’m going to flip this around and wonder why trail centers need a fancy building with cafe, gift shop etc? When I lived in the UK it was the ‘thing’, but moving to BC, we just tend to have a car park and if we are lucky a basic toilet. Squamish only just got a portaloo type thing recently at the bottom of Diamondhead. If I drive to Pemberton, I use provided parking and then if I want something to eat, I just head to a privately run cafe on the way home.

I’d say 95% of the trails are volunteer built / maintained.

Maybe not a popular opinion, but why not ditch the buildings, go into the local community for food etc, and then with the money saved, contract out trail maintenance as needed?

The building is what distinguishes a trail centre from a basic riding spot. Clearly the sport has evolved to more technical “bike park” venues, but there must still be a demand for a venue with waymarked routes accessible to a range of abilities? Coed y Brenin Visitor Centre’s building is going to be expensive to run and maintain, so is probably a bad model for how to run a “trail centre”.

I tend to agree…there isn’t a real need for a cafe and fancy building at the start of trails – nice to haves but not a minimum requirement (it is another revenue stream for landowner with rent).

Trail centres are a staple for mountain biking in the UK, so they are needed, how they are paid for is a challenge.

It is a difficult product to keep repackaging and selling back to the same users – it costs a fortune to build trails and probably the same again in maintenance over a period of years. You also need to enhance and keep producing alternatives as riding styles and demands change and progress.

Not an easy one, but I suspect whatever is done is going to need deep pockets.

The current visitor centre really didn’t add much, from an MTB perspective, compared to Sian and Daffyd’s café over the road. It’s a much more expensive building, and the balcony needed an expensive rebuild after less than 10 years. All that’s needed is a basic café, toilets and a bike wash, like we had back in the 90s.

Closure is looking almost certain. I could put up with a sell-off if there is a cast-iron (and enforced) caveat to maintain the trails! I emailed NRW and got a fairly canned response, more related to the job cuts than centre closures but it’s part of the same issue:

Public funding is exceptionally tight across the whole of the UK. As such, we are having to look across all of our remit and critically review what we can and must continue to do, what we stop, and what we slow or do differently to fulfil our Corporate Plan ambitions. This is no different to any other public sector body at the moment.We have launched a consultation with Trade Unions and started the process of engagement with staff  on how we propose to reduce our grant in aid staff budget by £13 million for the 1 April 2025.The purpose is to refocus resources on the activities that will have the most impact on nature, climate, and minimising pollution, as well as the statutory work that only NRW can do. The aim is to mitigate job losses as much as possible.Some of these changes, if implemented, will impact our partners, customers, and stakeholders.Following our consultation, the NRW Board will make a final decision on changes and at that point we will explain what the changes mean in the delivery of services.There will not be a public consultation on our proposals.  In 2022-23 we held a public consultation on our new Corporate Plan, Nature and People Thriving Together, which sets our strategic direction and priorities through to 2030.  This consultation with the Trade Unions is about how we ensure a focus on those Corporate Plan priorities whilst adapting to live within our financial means.This is a challenging time for everyone working at NRW and we ask that the public support our people as they go through this consultation.Thank you for your understanding and for your continued support on this matter

Personally, I think there is an opportunity here to widen the remit of trail centres to fulfill NRW’s new aims of mitigating climate change/enhancing nature. If people come (from towns and cities) to understand and learn and be involved in nature, they’re more likely to care about it and support NRW’s aim. That was my argued, reply anyway. Surely that’s a positive side-effect of mountain biking?

I think that if this thread was from 15 years ago there would have been 200 posts . The fact that there is only 14 indicates that people aren’t that fussy anymore. Probably says something about the state of STW also . FWIW me and a group of friends did the Dragons Back at Coedy last month , and it felt like a lot of up without any really  good descents to make the climbing worthwhile . Also the trails seemed a bit tired.

All that’s needed is a basic café, toilets and a bike wash, like we had back in the 90s.

Yes and no – families, kids, newbies etc, it’s a pretty vital part of the whole experience. My sister takes her two kids to Dalby sometimes and they simply would not go there if there wasn’t a cafe (serving ice cream!) and toilets, changing facilities etc.

It’s no fun trying to get two wet, muddy, tired children changed in an open car park or not have a safe warm cafe to sit in. A basic shed for a cafe and a portaloo doesn’t cut it.

Having been there last weekend it’s no wonder the place I in a mess financially. The parking system was down again so free parking was the message from the VC staff. The cafe was a ghost town at 3pm because all they had were some prepackaged sandwiches. As a result we didn’t spend the £20-30 we would expect to and I’m sure it was similar for a lot of others in the full car park

Yup, compare that to Llandegla where the cafe is hopping all day long on a Sunny weekend and everyone’s paid at least £5 to park.

I have full sympathy with anyone facing redundancy but the Cafe at the ‘new’ visitor centre has always been a bit rubbish, if the end result of this is that a 3rd party takes it over it could be the start of a Coedy revival. I too have fond memories of Sian and Daffyd’s set-up.

I love taking the Kids to Coedy, it’s in a truly glorious part of the world. However, by the time I actually get them round a loop the cafe has virtually nothing left so we spend hardly any money compared to Llandegla where we drop £50 in the cafe almost every time we go.

 

 

I think that if this thread was from 15 years ago there would have been 200 posts

Well there was an existing thread then STW created this one as well, so…

I love CYB, I go every year, I pay to park but the cafe’s usually shut by the time I finish (I use the place to do big rides).

As I said on the other thread, I think the VC and cafe will be better run by a local CIC than by NRW anyway. Really hope that can happen.

And more of you should take your downcountry rigs there anyway, it’s perfect for that kind of bike and brilliant fun still.

Coed Y Brenin is miles away from everywhere. People would, and still go there because they have loads of re-enforced ‘pedally’ trails that can be ridden all year round, without having to use a map or worry about running into walkers. When there were fewer trail centres they got more visitors, now there are more trail centres that are closer to where people live they get fewer visitors.

Someone mentioned OnePlanet/Llandegla earlier in the thread. As they are close to Chester/Wrexham and not far from Merseyside/G. Manchester they will be mopping up visitors that would have previously travelled further to go to places like CYB.

CYB can still be a national cycling hub like it has been before but it has to give people a reason to travel out there and go past other trail centres that have opened more recently. E.g. they need proper Black runs (the old Red Bull and Beast are not Black trails), downhill only trails with up-lifts, festivals, events, etc.

Or they can just accept that there’s no longer a need for a big visitor centre and just offer toilets and somewhere to get changed. Charge for the car-park and rent out space for catering vans at the weekend and school holidays like they do at other NRW sites and put that money into maintaining the trails.

I always thought the building of the big UFO visitor centre was hubris.

 

On a smaller scale and back over the bridge Ashton Court is a great example how not to do things apres bike . When they used to have the old golf hut the 2 lovely ladies knew what hungry bike riders needed grub wise . Now the cafe is council run along with another one just down the road , last time we rode there wanted a break and eats about 1230 the only real option was a toasted sandwich “ Sorry we’ve run out of toasted sandwiches “ ???

The other cafe is aimed more at the tofu brigade so not really suitable . Bring your own is the message I guess.

walleater
Full Member
When I lived in the UK it was the ‘thing’, but moving to BC, we just tend to have a car park and if we are lucky a basic toilet.

Nobody likes a show off.

E.g. they need proper Black runs (the old Red Bull and Beast are not Black trails), downhill only trails with up-lifts, festivals, events, etc.

I agree. It shows that their strategy of ignoring mtb riders in favour of family days out hasn’t delivered for them. The family trails are nearly empty. The new gravel trails are a tour of the fire roads so just a few way markers

There’s a petition to try and stop the Visitor Centre closures:

https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/246323?fbclid=IwY2xjawExf8lleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHXVctkonH0TNwRAPWDEqPSIwt3v9E1sDfiVvZNo0OKO7Ue1G-38tlXNQPA_aem_GpNQSBTxL5HX7Q54I1dxHA

How odd…

I can just see the NRW Finance Director and CEO reviewing the  books next year…..

Visitor numbers are down 83% from our heyday.

Our cafe costs £2.5k per week to operate

Electricity costs are up by 14% year on year for the last decade.

Our trails are hideously out of date

Nobody can be arsed driving such a long way when there’s so many trails nearby

Car park revenue is down

Nobody buys anything from the cafe after 3 pm as there is nothing to buy.

We’re just not financially viable any more.

OK. You’re right. With a heavy heart we have to make the decision to close.

<b>No</b>   stop. Hang on. Just spotted that someone has raised a petition asking for is to remain open…

Thank god. We’re saved. 

Unless they are charging people £100 each to sign the petition….

Parking revenue down? Well yes, if your machines are constantly out of order.

Not sorting out your contract to ensure guaranteed up time of the means to collect a substantial revenue stream is basically leaving the money for fixing trails etc on the floor. Not sure if it’s incompetence, that they’ve just lost interest or are actively sabotaging the site.

We attended on a previous Bank Holiday, the cafe had closed by 2:30, yet the car park was full, absolutely busting full, of families looking to get some food and drinks after being out walking/riding just being outdoors. Even the Changing rooms were locked just the upstairs toilets.

Very disappointed, and surprisingly the car park was free that day as well

It seems incompetence by management and higher that is the source of the problem. It’s no surprise staff are leaving

I’ve been visiting CyB from Yorkshire since the very beginning and always enjoy my trips there. Even the drive there is enjoyable through some stunning scenery. Its not a place for enduro gnarpoon weapons but its a grand place for a good pedal and some great, not particularly techy but fast descents. That said, this made me laugh:

“we are concerned that investment in the trails will not be what it has been “

I think the last time I saw an actual trail closure for work at CyB was on False Teeth about 10+ years ago. There doesn’t seem to be (at least as far as I’m aware) to be a trail pixie type crew… trails just seem to deteriorate.

Agree with the stuff about the trail centre buildings etc – all seems a bit OTT. A gift shop? Really?? All evidence, like Glentress was too, of the landowners getting swept along on the early 2000s wave of trail centre mania and wanting to cash in but unlike Glentress, there doesn’t seem to be that massive local riding community based out of Dolgellau for example to sustain things even if its building the off-piste stuff that brings in a different type of visitor. Which does leave you with an old skool trail centre a long way from anywhere.

Might need to plan a trip there ASAP…

We’re just not financially viable any more.

TBH, a café there is never always going to make money on every single operational day, but given where it is, how many folks it attracts and what’s available at the site, if you can’t make it at the very least cost neutral over the year, then you’ve pretty much failed at the basics.

I haven’t been in the cafe for a long time, but last time I went in it reminded me of a motorway services.

Not been in since.

If you can get into the cafe the food is good, simple foods, beans on toast, jacket potatoes, pasties/pies.

Breakfast is very good

 even if its building the off-piste stuff that brings in a different type of visitor.

They’d actively blocked some of the best off-piste trails last time I was there,

The cafe has been in decline for a bit culminating in food in packets only ant the moment – according to a friend who has been there. The visitor numbers aren’t the issue – the whole thing smacks of mismanagement with the possibility that it’s deliberate to make it easy to flog. Given the Bike Park Wales lease maybe they are thinking something like that but without understanding it’s a completely different kind of trail centre.

Anyone who’s worked in the public sector will know how badly contracts are managed, and how flawed the tendering/awarding process is to start with. Due to public sector bureaucracy they’ll be getting shafted at every turn for supplies, building work, maintenance etc etc as every company and contractor used will have to be on an approved list and do a hundred risk assessments blah blah. The ‘facilities’ offering could do with being simplified, quality improved, and the trails need a makeover.

Personally, I haven’t used a trail centre how they’re intended more than once in the last 6 or 7 years. I can’t see the point in driving an hour plus each way to get a few hours riding in, on trails I’ve ridden before which now seem boring.

Thu @ 5pm: Online Public Meeting on future of Coed y Brenin & Nant yr Arian

Hi everyone

We wanted to let you know that NRW are holding an online public meeting at 5pm this Thursday, 5th Dec, on the future of Coed y Brenin and Bwlch Nant yr Arian:

We are holding an online public meeting to update communities on the future of Bwlch Nant yr Arian, Ynyslas and Coed y Brenin visitor centres.

The online meeting will start at 5pm on Thursday, December 5 and you can join via this link https://orlo.uk/Y8K09

This meeting will cover the same information provided at public meetings recently held in the local communities and will include the chance to ask questions.

If you’re at all interested in what happens to these important parts of the UK’s mountain bike infrastructure, then please attend the online meeting to show your support!

NRW have also set up an online consultation page, which may be updated with some FAQs before the meeting, and where they give an email address for people to ask questions ahead of the meeting.

NRW are currently saying that, although they’re temporarily closing the cafes and visitor centres while they look for new partners to take them on, the trails themselves will remain open and continue to be maintained. Given the budget cuts that NRW have committed to, we are sceptical about NRW’s intention and ability to maintain the trails on an ongoing basis, and thus whether they’ll be able to keep the trails open in the long run. That scepticism seems to be shared by the local businesses and communities around the trails.

Thank you in advance for your help on this.

cheers

Robin

Robin Grant
Founder & Chair
UK MTB Trail Alliance