Is mountain biking still too misogynistic

I’m too busy riding with my friends to be wringing my hands about whether MTB should be equally represented in both genders.

But also, I dont really care.

If someone wants to ride, they’ll ride. Gender or sexuality has got nothing to do with it.

MTB is such that you can dictate the terms of your own engagement with the ‘culture’. You can go all out and immerse yourself in the club and race scene, or start your own. You can ride with just the people you like, your spouse or solo.

You just need the maturity to think for yourself and ignore the shit you dont like. The world has ever been thus, for everything, and it wont substantively change any time soon.

I’ve left a few MTB facebook groups of late because they seem to be full of mostly young lads (the future of what we do), making bigoted comments about peoples choice of bike, wheel size, and genitals.

Frankly, I don’t have time for that BS.

It probably is, but as a bloke, I’m not really qualified to say so, what I do know, is that some of the people involved in MTB are horrible, intolerant arse’s, who think it’s fine to be misogynistic, racist, homophobic, transphobic, or whatever.

Personally, I think it’s unacceptable to be any of that. I just enjoy riding my bikes.

can’t be bothered to support it.

If someone wants to ride, they’ll ride. Gender or sexuality has got nothing to do with it.

That sort of attitude won’t help widen participation, to increase diversity you need to take positive action.

Problem is though, the majority of people just don’t care. About most issues with the “sport” as it’s so broad really. I don’t ride downhill, enduro or competitively so couldn’t care less about funding for racing. I’m never going to Scotland so don’t pay any attention to their access and how it’s better. Less people in the sport? Less people in trail centre car parks. No trail centres, I’ll ride cheeky trails.

Doesn’t mean I want people to be put off, no way should gender, sexuality or ethnicity stop you from taking part. But equally, I’m not going to go out and do anything about it either. Which should make me feel bad, but doesn’t.

Fortunately, the undesirables do tend to collectivise in their own echo chambers so they’re pretty easy to identify and avoid.

mostly young lads (the future of what we do), making bigoted comments about peoples choice of bike, wheel size, and genitals.

Its still not acceptable but – ‘A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life’.

– Muhammad Ali.

Some of those guys are still learning to be decent human beings. Some will never make it.

Annabelle, it’s good to hear that younger women riders don’t face similar prejudice as older women, maybe it’s a generational problem.
How do you feel about events such as Air Maiden?
Would you feel comfortable entering the Virgin or Whore’s categories?
I know that it was established by women, but it appears sycophantic in asserting that women are just a ride and a conquest. Is there another national sport that officially refers to women like that?
I used to work as a groom, I’m well used to a tumble, getting dirty, and having to put the physical effort in. Casual sexism and misogyny aside, I think that a major barrier women have in accessing any sport is that we have less free time and more responsibilities than men.

If someone wants to ride, they’ll ride. Gender or sexuality has got nothing to do with it.

Women still need to buy bikes though. Would you be enthused to go buy one if the local shop dismissed you/only spoke to your (different gender) SO about your purchase?

Then once you got out on the trail, people of the opposite gender kept offering patronising advice, despite not asking for it? Or muttering snide comments under their breath as the go past?

If someone wants to ride, they’ll ride.

Agreed.

Gender or sexuality has got nothing to do with it.

Has something to do with it for some people, I think. Marketing is often what makes people notice so many things that don’t come directly from their friends. If bike companies only ever show ‘Bro culture’ and bike shops are staffed by blokes who think MTB is a bloke’s sport/thing it will influence who rides in the longer term. ‘People like us do things like this’.

I can think of 2 non-MTB events that saw an obvious change in the gender balance when they encouraged more women to enter. No major marketing/message effort needed, just a subtle change in how things were done and perhaps most of it came from just making it clear the events welcomed all riders. For some it’s not an issue but for other women knowing they wouldn’t be the 5% minority there made the difference.

I’ve yet to see the printed edition of an MTB mag with a female on the front cover. Chicken. Egg. Chicken. Egg…

Would you be enthused to go buy one if the local shop dismissed you/only spoke to your (different gender) SO about your purchase?

Then once you got out on the trail, people of the opposite gender kept offering patronising advice, despite not asking for it? Or muttering snide comments under their breath as the go past?

No, I wouldn’t, and its not acceptable, but its not restricted to gender/sexuality. Noobs, kids, teenagers and riders of any persuasion that are perceived to be of lesser skill or not a ‘bro’ can be/are subjected to this stuff too.

You can use your valuable time and energy fighting injustice, or you can get on with your life and develop some resilience, and cut out those types of people, hence my comments in my last paragraph about maturity.

Which you choose I think, depends on your personality.

Then once you got out on the trail, people of the opposite gender kept offering patronising advice, despite not asking for it? Or muttering snide comments under their breath as the go past?

That’s LONG been a “thing” though, both men and women. I thought it was a hangover from the old days of the traditional roadie club where old blokes would mutter under their breath about these young whippersnapers, no respect, this new fangled gear. I remember road racing in the mid 90’s with guys who would sneer at STIs (still a relatively new thing then) insisting that their downtube shifters were still perfectly good. And you get exactly the same now with e-bikes. In between it, there’s been sneering and derogatory comments about more gears, carbon fibre and disc brakes plus the usual dyed-in-the-wool “knowledge” (old wives tales…) about how you should always do this that or the other.

In some respects, that publication of the Velominati Rules, originally intended to be tongue in cheek soon came full circle and went so far up its own arse that it’s now used to sneer and belittle riders in a whole new way.

I think that a major barrier women have in accessing any sport is that we have less free time and more responsibilities than men.

as a house-husband that has worked part time unsociable hours for the past 10 years I disagree with that statement.

I’ve yet to see the printed edition of an MTB mag with a female on the front cover

Honestly I’ve left this thread well alone, but you’d have to have gone out of your way not to notice. I’ve got three from the pile of just 7-8 in the smallest room reading material collection (2 from Singletrack Anka Martin on the front of 126, and a couple (man and woman) on the cover of 128), and one from MBUK (Manon Carpenter on the front of Jan this year) I can think of times either Tahnee or Rachel has been on the cover of various mags as well.

This publication (and by that I mean the website as well as the printed mags), has a pretty even split in their editorial team who write, and they write about bikes, not  just “bikes for women”, or variations on that theme, although when they do, it’s often thought provoking and insightful. Cycling Weekly appointed a female Tech Editor recently as well. I think it’s incumbent on all of us to try to be as inclusive as we can. I think (perhaps controversially) bike centres like CYB and BPW and Swinley have done huge amounts to make mountain biking a “destination activity” and e-bikes make it easier to ride together if you’re differing in endurance or strength (and that cuts both ways). Future looks bright, but we’ve got to want it to happen, and make it happen.

Not MTB specifically, but the comments on this Cycling UK post from yesterday about an LGBT club are genuinely depressing…

That was supposed to be a link to an FB post.

You can see it here if you scroll down…
https://www.facebook.com/CyclingUK/

How many replies from female users have there been, as a matter of interest?

I don’t have any of my old copies of Dirt but I would be AMAZED if none of them had a female MTBer on the cover. I remember their coverage of the female half of the WC DH being good, and likewise the early years of EWS.

I think it’s important that we strive to be more inclusive, maybe I’m more aware of it since having two daughters (and a son in between).

The “29ers are gay” comments on Pinkbike etc feel so weird, like they’re from a bygone era, but I live in Brighton so I’m definitely in a more forward thinking bubble. I think only one of my riding mates is gay (it’s not exactly something we talk about – thankfully the days of “phoar look at her” banter are past) and he’s a bloody good rider, really ballsy and fast, sometimes lets his bravery get ahead of his skills (which are better than mine). We did a race together some years back and he was starting behind me and overtook me on pretty much every stage!

It’s always nice when we have some female riders in our group, just feels a good thing even though the riding and conversation doesn’t change. That’s the thing really – we’re just humans who like MTBing. Within that there are lots of subsets of what types of riding we’re into but that doesn’t seem to be affected in any way by gender, sexuality, colour, etc.

How many replies from female users have there been, as a matter of interest?

I don’t know, but let’s hope they are better thought out than this one…

I think that a major barrier women have in accessing any sport is that we have less free time and more responsibilities than men.

How many replies from female users have there been, as a matter of interest?

They’re all being ‘mature’ and letting it happen, apparently. Because it can’t be changed, as it’s always been this way.🙄

“I don’t know, but let’s hope they are better thought out than this one…

“I think that a major barrier women have in accessing any sport is that we have less free time and more responsibilities than men.””

Have you ever looked at the group dynamics of many families, especially those with young children?

I’m maybe privileged in that I live in a bit of a local “bubble” in an area most folk moved to because of the availability of outdoor activities – including cycling. However, I no longer really notice the sex of the cyclists I see, it’s simply not an issue. Local Strava segments, my Instagram/Flickr feeds etc. are full of female riders, just as they are with male riders. The most active MTB group in the area is a women’s group and it’s definitely the case that some women prefer that option if they’re not riding alone or with a partner.

What I don’t see, and therefore notice, are many non-White faces, but then there are very few in the area. We do have a high number of Eastern Europeans and Antipodeans, again here because of the outdoor activities.

@kerley each family is different so rather unfair to generalise, imo.

Have you ever looked at the group dynamics of many families, especially those with young children?

Yes, I have studied humanities, including sociology and psychology. Poah is an exception, and even where men do pull their weight on practical terms, it tends to be the woman who bears the mental burden of organising the household for things like appointments and food shopping. On average men do 6hrs of domestic stuff a week and women do 16hrs, on top of working full time.
It’s interesting that that’s the part of my post that people here have had issues with, yet no problem with calling young women Virgins or Whores.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women-men-household-chores-domestic-house-gender-norms-a9021586.html%3famp

Which you choose I think, depends on your personality.

It’s not necessarily a choice, you could do some of both. Depends on the nature of it, what you’ve experienced, etc.

Is horse riding still too misogynistic?

@kerley each family is different so rather unfair to generalise, imo.

I wasn’t generalising at all, but whoever wrote this certainly was which was my point about ill thought out comments…

I think that a major barrier women have in accessing any sport is that we have less free time and more responsibilities than men.

What I don’t see, and therefore notice, are many non-White faces

We did a survey of more than 10,000 UK MTBers a few years ago, publicised through cycling websites and social media.

I believe there were a vanishingly small number of ethnic minority respondents – and I probably prompted a few of those by asking somebody off here to share with his riding group that I was aware of.

I don’t recall the proportion of females, but it was reflective of the previously known ratio and probably in the teens somewhere.

Don’t think we captured sexuality.

It’s interesting that that’s the part of my post that people here have had issues with, yet no problem with calling young women Virgins or Whores.

I remember that. It seemed to split female riders, though I got the impression most of the actual participants were happy with it. Both words do have other connotations (any novice could be called a trail virgin, we talk about brand whores) but there are definitely some more unpleasant tones when applied to women.

What is the female equivalent of ladism?

I believe there were a vanishingly small number of ethnic minority respondents

Yeah, I can imagine. As I said, there are loads of non-native riders here. I wonder if it’s the same concentration in some other locations but simply not widespread.

It’s interesting that that’s the part of my post that people here have had issues with, yet no problem with calling young women Virgins or Whores

it was a woman only race series so why would I care what they called the different categories?

On average men do 6hrs of domestic stuff a week and women do 16hr

what about the woman that think men should still be doing certain jobs. My wife buys stuff for the house then expects me to sort it while she sits on her ass. Woman are just as sexist as men are if not more. Woman don’t want equality they want equity.

It’s not necessarily a choice, you could do some of both. Depends on the nature of it, what you’ve experienced, etc.

Agreed. Its going to be a ‘work in progress’ for generations. There are too many slights of existence to be dealt with in one lifetime!

nickc
Subscriber
I’ve yet to see the printed edition of an MTB mag with a female on the front cover

Honestly I’ve left this thread well alone, but you’d have to have gone out of your way not to notice. I’ve got three from the pile of just 7-8 in the smallest room reading material collection (2 from Singletrack Anka Martin on the front of 126, and a couple (man and woman) on the cover of 128), and one from MBUK (Manon Carpenter on the front of Jan this year) I can think of times either Tahnee or Rachel has been on the cover of various mags as well.

this…and not just the covers; Mrs R has certainly noticed that both the editorial & advert photos seem to have a good mix of men & women

Poah and Kerley, I’ve provided evidence in an earlier post which demonstrates that women do the lions share of domestic responsibilities, there will be exceptions but they are not the norm.

it was a woman only race series so why would I care what they called the different categories?

You’d be happy for your daughter or wife to be the fastest Whore?
Imagine if mens races were categorised by their sexual prowess? Who’s riding in the Impotent race?
https://www.rootsandrain.com/race4479/2016-jul-23-air-maiden-maidenduro-innerleithen/results/

You’d be happy for your daughter or wife to be the fastest Whore?

I’d be happy for my wife or daughter to decide for themselves whether or not they chose to endorse the event by participating, which is not to say that that there was a surfeit of good alternatives. As I said, opinion at the time, amongst women riders I know, appearedtto be mostly OK with it.

Wasn’t the air maiden event organised by women though? Apologies if i got this wrong.

Faerie, when I said this: “Have you ever looked at the group dynamics of many families, especially those with young children?” in response to Kerley, I was agreeing with you!

My wife is a so-called non-working mother who actually works far more hours than me, even though I run my own business and try to pull my weight with the kids and house.

“Yes, I have studied humanities, including sociology and psychology. Poah is an exception, and even where men do pull their weight on practical terms, it tends to be the woman who bears the mental burden of organising the household for things like appointments and food shopping. On average men do 6hrs of domestic stuff a week and women do 16hrs, on top of working full time.”

There will be exceptions but in many families this is the case – I’ve seen it with friends during lock-down – the dad is working in the home office all day and then appears expecting dinner. The mum is doing everything else – and if you’ve tried to home school children whilst running the house you’ll know that’s harder work than driving a laptop!

I remember that. It seemed to split female riders, though I got the impression most of the actual participants were happy with it.

That does seem a bit self-selecting, though – if you really don’t like the names you probably won’t take part.

And apropos of nothing, I went out on my MTB with my 16 year old daughter just yesterday 🙂

That does seem a bit self-selecting, though – if you really don’t like the names you probably won’t take part.

Yeah, and as I said, it’s not like there were loads of other events to choose from either.

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/female-riders-would-you-enter-an-event-that-categorised-you-as-a-whore/

My apologies Chiefgrooveguru, I miss read your post.
Blackflag: Yes it is, as I said earlier.
Scotroutes, I think women entered the event as it’s the format that appeals, but there were a few reservations about the category names. The female equivalent ladism is ladette, Denise Van Outen looked like she was having fun and I totally embraced the culture in the early ’90s behaving just as badly as the boys. Whilst I may aspire to be a whore in the bedroom I don’t in a bike event 🤣

Poah and Kerley, I’ve provided evidence in an earlier post which demonstrates that women do the lions share of domestic responsibilities, there will be exceptions but they are not the norm.

Well done. The comment I picked up on was still a generalisation though. People make time for the things they want to do in life. I don’t have any more spare time than my wife does (in fact I have far less) but I still cycle every Saturday and Sunday without fail because it is important to me. My wife makes time for the things that are important to her. She could spend more time riding a bike than I do but she chooses to do gardening. She actually detests cycling and thinks they are all **** but I digress.

It is not a competition about who has the most or least spare time it is about whether the spare time you do have is spent riding a bike or not.