aye no way Landis should make a penny out of this at all he is no better and did everything LA did. That really stinks tbh

Junkyard – Member

No but clean riders lost jobs, stages and tours due to cheats

Aye, and that’s the sad part of it. But to be a guy in the middle, riding along with a cheat in front and a cheat behind, you face the choice of cheating, or risking being a clean rider that loses a job, stage or tour due to cheats. Two sides of the same coin. The individual rider can’t fix that by not cheating, at the end of the day.

But then that’s an old argument I think. Anyone know if there’s a really reliable estimate of the proportion of dopers/cheats?

hora – Member

They are always one step ahead the athletes. Look at Oscar- only caught out due the shooting of his girlfriend.

Ehhhh. Steroid claim turned out to be total fabrication, testosterone claim still disputed. Maybe the test results will prove it, maybe not but right now he’s not been “caught out”. Amazing the momentum “facts” have.

Lance is toast. The momentum is there to ensure his fall is permanent

Commercial pressures will determine that outcome. Is Lance down and out? Absolutely not, look past the use of drugs and you still have a mind of a tactician with his own agenda which has yet to see the light of day.

Anyone know if there’s a really reliable estimate of the proportion of dopers/cheats?

NO there are percentages of fails when tests were retaken for EPO but iirc it was small 10 % ish tested positive when LA was identified and iirc his were 50% of those tested with the new procedures
I dont think it was as endemic as LA apologists make out tbh and doubt it was anywhere near the majority but we will never know the true figure even with a truth and reconcilliation programme and possibly not even then. I imagine more common at the top [ but I dont know for sure]

As Hora defended LA to the hilt till the end it seems pointles engaging with him as he seems to have swung the other way now on this issue

Swung the other way?

Yeah when the likes of George H admitted to systematic cheating and was never caught.

Junkyard – Member

I imagine more common at the top [ but I dont know for sure]

Seems a fair assumption though- don’t think you can apply the top-end average all the way down, unless the drugs don’t work anyway 😉

Those who compare Lance to other dopers, worth spending some time listening to the Radio 5 documentary for more background to the story…

He’s also being accused of more serious crimes than any of the others…

Radio 5 documentary

More than just doping

Ah the nuremberg defence

Spectacularly early showing of Godwin’s law. Well done.. 😀

He’s got charisma though eh? Can’t say he’s pretending to be anything other than what he was, which was win at all costs, hard as nails bastard, which most of the riders at the sharp end of the race are but would like you to think otherwise 😉

I think if it was anyone else I would feel sorry for them but seeing that LA bullied anyone that dared to question his validity I feel he deserves all he gets.

It was his bullying and egotism that mean he deserves more punishment than most of the others. Suing the Sunday Times, the young girl who was his masseur and loads of others who were too small and poor to properly defend themselves. I think he is a particularly odious human being and to get away with it because he has good lawyers and PR would be an injustice. I think he was in a different league of badness than anyone else i have heard about.