I could forgive them a lot, but not this ….

Taking Northern Rail back into public ownership has certainly worked out well.

if Starmer’s government makes the “difficult decision” not to renationalise Royal Mail it has to be for ideological reasons, certainly not because it lacks voter appeal.

Considering the ferocious resistance they’re encountering on every front where they’re trying to raise taxes or cut spending I suspect they’re looking at the 3.6 Billion it would cost them and have decided that the plaudits they’ll get for re-nationalising the RM will be more than outweighed by the pain of raising the money.

Oh, and if the sale had already been agreed under the previously government they’d probably end up in court and on the hook for  a very hefty legal bill if they quashed it now. Which I’m sure the press would have a field day about as well.

I’m not a Labour supporter but.. government is tough.

@johnnystorm the Royal Mail isn’t anywhere near profitable enough to cover the interest payments on £3.6B of government bonds

Oh, and if the sale had already been agreed under the previously government they’d probably end up in court and on the hook for a very hefty legal bill if they quashed it now.

As I said previously no need to quash the takeover bid, just nationalise Royal Mail. The courts could do about as much about that as they could about privatisation.

Which I’m sure the press would have a field day about as well.

So “the press” sets the agenda, not voters and the government which they elected?

Excuses, excuses, excuses, always an excuse for not doing the right thing.

Where would the money come from to buy it back?

Same place it always comes from.

And the government gains an asset.

Look Labour or the Tories – both are signed up to private-is-best.

And as terrible as the Tories are we have a Labour government that is working in the interests of capital – why on earth is anyone shocked these days?

The ship has sailed

Until we change the whole damn outlook on the way markets don’t actually work then we will keep getting these shitty governments not operating in the interest of the majority.

No real point in keeping going on about the Tories now – it’s up to Labour to fix things.

have the government got 3.6bn to buy royal mail

Of course they have.

All this is down to political will.

It’s never due to lack of funds. Ever.

Don’t forget they gain an asset which supports the balance sheet too.

(Remember 3bn for Ukraine every year no matter what.)

Labour are totally boxed in by believing in the private sector to fund things. It’s a fail and it’s Tory thinking.

Expect more dumb-assery as we move into 2025.

according to a recent yougov poll 75% of voters support renationalising Royal Mail and only 15% oppose it.

Genuine question because I don’t understand, how does “renationalising” work? That thing we sold you, we’ll have it back now, thanks. You can’t unsell something, what do we do, out-bid the private competition?

You pass legislation in parliament.

I cant see the problem. If someone wants to buy this failing business, thats a good thing, and will probably lead to investment.

Certainly I havent seen the same level of thread about foreigners buying football teams

Therein precisely lies the rub; for, so long as the propertied classes remain at the helm, nationalisation never abolishes exploitation but merely changes its form — in the French, American or Swiss republics no less than in monarchist Central, and despotic Eastern, Europe.

— Friedrich Engels

The problem that Murphy has is that private industries receiving Govt bonds in exchange for their property happened precisely once, at the end of WW2 when there was literally no alternative. That hasn’t been the case since, and every nationalised industry has been bought at market value on borrowed cash. It’s worth noting that even McDonell and Corbyn in their 2017 manifesto wouldn’t either 1. put the cost of any nationalisation plan, or 2. the route they planned to raised the money in writing (their ‘fully costed’ manifesto excluded it) and at the time, they were being briefed by none other than Murphy himself.

I don’t think the water industry or the rail or any other monopoly should’ve been sold off, but these things tend to come in circles, and what was privatised becomes nationalised again. Only to be reprivatized when they become too expensive, bureaucratic and unwieldly and used as political points-scoring for the opposition of the day.

Engels was right all along.

Royal Mail is all about managed decline, without restoring its monopoly status. Why should “the state” take that on? People don’t really want a single state owned delivery service… they are just attached to the memory of one. Their services won’t really be a priority for many people at all in the future, while they have other options… unlike water, transport, renewable energy… all of which are here to stay, and all of which it is well worth the state owning and running for the benefit of us all. If the government made moves (beyond rail and a bit of other tinkering it has planned) to have more publicly owned infrastructure and services, Royal Mail would be well down the list of “assets” it could acquire or develop. Liberalizing the market for deliveries, and splitting up and privatizing the state owned parts of it, whether the right option or not, isn’t worth unpicking over the next ten years, is it?

I could forgive them a lot, but not this ….

A company privatized by the Tories a decade ago is being sold to another owner.  What’s the big deal?

Out of all the things wrong in the world, or in the UK, this is must be close to the very bottom of the heap.

have decided that the plaudits they’ll get for re-nationalising the RM

Would last about the same length of time it’s taken for the shine to rub off the Starmer govt. Any nationalised industry is a stick with which to beat the govt, and a massive elephant trap of failing to improve, rising costs, arguments with it’s management and/or it’s unions when trying to not incur costs, and disapproval from the public over every industrial action. Personally I can’t wait for the railways (for instance) to be run as well as every council.

The company agreed to be bought whilst the Tories were in government but it is has been up to Labour to give the final go ahead in terms of transfer of ownership.

up to Labour to give the final go ahead in terms of transfer of ownership

And why should they not give approval to a private company selling an operation to another private company?

they should sell the whole shytehole of a country while their at it.

@ton They did that years ago.

Still can’t work the bloody quote function

Not sure why anyone would want to buy it?

It’s on borrowed time surely?

Although, TBF, around here, Parcelforce and the Royal Mail, offer a very good service, I’ve got a very helpful and friendly postie and the regular Parcelforce bloke is top as well.

Personally I can’t wait for the railways (for instance) to be run as well as every council.

Where buses are once again being run as a public service (and in places that never stopped being run that way) the service tends to be better. The railways are currently… [ insert any swear word you fancy ] …across much of the country.

@J-R

And why should they not give approval to a private company selling an operation to another private company?

Because, rightly or wrongly RM are considered vital national infrastructure with a universal service obligation.

@johnnystorm

Because, rightly or wrongly RM are considered vital national infrastructure with a universal service obligation

. . .which is a fair point.  But the government considered this when deciding whether to allow it to be sold on and obviously decided it was not a significant issue.

But that was not the tone of the OP, or of several posters wondering if it can be/should be renationalized.

As someone else said earlier, I can’t see why this would register on the giveashitometer – let alone be unforgivable.

It should have registered on the giveashitometer because  it is sort of infrastructure – the fact it was state owned for all those years tells us that.  And state ownership -> listed company -> private buyer is exactly the same route as taken by the water companies.  And look where that has led us.

I can see why it was nationalised decades ago. These days it’d make more sense to nationalise broadband, but the market seems to be working well enough there, so why not mail? It’s nothing like rail, water or energy for me.

It should have registered on the giveashitometer because it is sort of infrastructure – the fact it was state owned for all those years tells us that. And state ownership -> listed company -> private buyer is exactly the same route as taken by the water companies. And look where that has led us.

Its hardly comparible though. If the water company ceased to exist tomorrow we’d all know instantly as its sort of important that we have running water.

If the Royal Mail ceased to exist tomorrow, how long do you reckon it would be before you even noticed?

I take the point of all you who say it doesn’t matter in the overall scheme of things.  However, it seems that every last blade of bloody grass is for sale to the highest bidder in this shitty country and I’ve just had enough of it.  There are ‘For Sale’ signs in woodlands all over the place up here, for instance.  I think we would be a better country if all this was reversed.  I’m not advocating full-on communism, just a little caring socialism, or social democracy, if you like.  Which other first world country would allow directors of failing monopolies to draw huge bonuses whilst being fined for killing our waterways?

Let’s fix the Health Service before the Post Service.

Still can’t work the bloody quote function

Its simple.

Copy the text you want to copy. Press the quote symbol and hit paste.

Then press enter twice.

Add your witty retort.

Hit submit.

There are ‘For Sale’ signs in woodlands all over the place up here, for instance.

So what? There are For Sale signs on woodlands down here too. I see nothing wrong with someone who owns a woodland deciding they want to sell it.   Forestery Commission land, NT, etc is a different matter – but you didn’t say they are all being sold off?

As for water ownership – I think  the regulator has been useless for many years and there is a good argument for it being nationalised, although also good arguments against it. But electricity, gas, telecommunications have all been «  sold to the highest bidder » in most first world countries and generally work reasonably well.

But the main point is that the belief most things would be better nationalized is as silly and naive as the belief that everything must be privatised. I agree with DB on this – there are much more important things to give a shit about.

In my experience a vast majority of the population don’t know that the Post office and Royal mail are two different entities, so those stats stating that 75% of the public want RM re-nationalised could be erroneous.

Any how, this could all go south for the Czech billionaire and the government could pick it up cheap in a couple of years when he tries to off load it.

Let’s fix the Health Service before the Post Service.

What are we some sort of third world country that can’t have a functioning health service and a postal service that isn’t foreign owned?

Where does fighting homelessness come into the equation? Can the UK “afford” to build more homes or does this also have to wait until the health service has been fixed?

postal service that isn’t foreign owned

So it’s the foreigners you object to, rather than the grasping capitalists?

Where does . . . come into the equation?

There are lots of things that would be nice to spend money on, but government resources are finite so choices must always be made.  In that world, nationalizing the Royal Mail would be stupid.

So it’s the foreigners you object to, rather than the grasping capitalists?

Eh, in case you haven’t figured out it can’t be under democratic control if it is foreign owned, nor are profits likely to stay in the UK.

Are you happy with foreign governments owning vital British industries as long as they aren’t “grasping capitalists”?

Of course postal services should not be foreign owned, in the same way that the railways should not be foreign owned.

Edit : Btw the “foreign owned” comment in my post was in reference to treating the UK as if it is some sort of third world country, I expect third countries to maybe have their vital industries foreign owned but not the world’s 7th wealthiest nation.

it can’t be under democratic control

What does “democratic control” mean in this context?

Genuine question. I don’t recall ever turning up at a ballot station to vote on who owns the postal service, let alone having any say in how it’s run.

Under the control of the democratically expressed will of the people, and serving their needs. Answerable to politicians, not industrialists.

Copy

Does it work

Edit Nope not my phone anyway

I can’t help wondering what’s in it for him ? All the ” guarantees ” he’s giving? Glad I got out in 2009  , feel sorry for my mates who are still there .

Labour are totally boxed in by believing in the private sector to fund things. It’s a fail and it’s Tory thinking.

And as I keep pointing out, to even state otherwise will then be slaughtered right across the vast majority of the UK’s media.

Which other first world country would allow directors of failing monopolies to draw huge bonuses whilst being fined for killing our waterways?

That little one over the pond, the supposed ‘leader’ of the free world!

And as I keep pointing out, to even state otherwise will then be slaughtered right across the vast majority of the UK’s media.

So what? Just because you expect the  government to do what media moguls tell them doesn’t mean we agree, I think the attitude of appeasement to the media is a much much bigger problem to democracy than having the daily mail say nasty things. And with Musk now clearly spelling out that he is going to use twitter to disrupt democracy for the benefit of the few, to still keep parrating that the media should in any way dictate policy is becoming rather sad and pathetic.