How to waste 250 million quid, easy spend it on the m25

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19776835

Seems as if us the tax payer are funding a new lane each side of the m25, just to allieviate congestion for a few people who choose to use it at the same time.

Just perhaps why not run high capacity coaches, or bendi buses down one dedicated lane, with park and ride each end, create a dedicated lane out of the existing lanes for those who cant move out of the outside lane or middle lane and let others past.

or better still give all users an alarm clock to get up earlier or latter to start work, not everyone in the south needs to start work at 09.00hrs and leave at 17.00 hrs.

Jusrt a wholly waste of public money for a few, costing a lot of us a fortune to run, both for construction, maintenabnce, staffing and electricity for lighting etc.

Seems as if us the tax payer are funding a new lane each side of the m25, just to allieviate congestion

…and there’s also the notion that building more roads merely serves to create MORE congestion…

Very true, more roads create a faster speed, and more users to fill them, we need a reduction in the size of roads with dual carrigeway roads being de-lanned and one lane converted to cycle lanes or right turn lanes, been done in Gwersylt near Wrexham and works well, even though they forgot the cycle lane bit.

Your forgetting the point, this isn’t about congestion. This is about infrastructure projects and investment.

Oh, and lining up jobs for when MPs leave parliament…

Surely it will need to be widened to cope with te extra traffic going to/from the Heathrow extension?

we need a reduction in the size of roads with dual carrigeway roads being de-lanned and one lane converted to cycle lanes or right turn lanes

…and better, faster, more frequent trains, buses that take bikes going to more destinations, etc. etc. I fear it’ll never happen, though.

not everyone in the south needs to start work at 09.00hrs and leave at 17.00 hrs.

funny how a lot of people don’t work those hours – just think what the congestion was if they did.

If it were only a few people then there wouldn’t be a problem, but it isn’t.

Just perhaps why not run high capacity coaches, or bendi buses down one dedicated lane, with park and ride each end

and then extra public transport to transfer people to their points of work.

What’s the limit on commute time before working is just not viable?

What’s your commute time?

Most schools and offices work the same hours, as do shops, have staggered opening times along with road charging and you make a profit and reduce congestion and hopefully people car share or use public transport, perhaps even cycle.

Why do you think that is?

Most schools and offices work the same hours, as do shops, have staggered opening times along with road charging and you make a profit and reduce congestion and hopefully people car share or use public transport, perhaps even cycle.

too simplistic a view considering the public transport links around there – if people are on the motorway they are likely travelling more distance than public transport or cycling would make convenient.

I used to work down that way if I took public transport, as I did for a while, commute time was 2 hours door to door…

and then extra public transport to transfer people to their points of work.

What’s the limit on commute time before working is just not viable?

What’s your commute time?

Maybe PART of the solution is to realise that many jobs don’t need to be in London and it would benefit the economy to move work out of London? Why are so many government organisations based in London when it is the most expensive place in the UK to have those jobs?

What would be the longterm savings/costs of relocating parliament to Ebbw Vale or Merthyr?

Because trhe management of these places have no idea about what the public want of the services they provide, why cant a shop open at 8.00am or an office or a school, an close latter, theyre not actually a non stop production linne that needs repetetive working.

I guess you have shares in some after-school/wrap-around care scheme operator?

What would be the longterm savings/costs of relocating parliament to Ebbw Vale or Merthyr?

The Welsh assembly governmnet is in Cardiff, but Manchester would be a better location fot the english parliment, preferably after a major cull of all the useless hangers on and commuters.

England has a parliament now?

Maybe PART of the solution is to realise that many jobs don’t need to be in London

M25 is an orbital road, just because you are going round it doesn’t mean you are going into London. Fidelity have a couple of places down near junction 5 and one near 8, for example.

The Welsh assembly governmnet is in Cardiff, but Manchester would be a better location fot the english parliment, preferably after a major cull of all the useless hangers on and commuters.

That does ask the question is Parliament an English Assembly or a British Assembly?

However Manchester would still cost more than Stoke for instance? Pick a cheap part of the country near major routes, ie road and rail and start from scratch. But yes cull MPs, ministers, etc first.

english parliment, preferably after a major cull of all the useless hangers on and commuters.

what connection is there between parliament and these useless hangers on and commuters – what are they hanging onto in parliament and are there a lot of people that commute to parliament to then do nothing useful?

cull MPs, ministers, etc first.

how can you cull MPs – unless you increase constituency size?

TBH, it sounds like a good plan. That stretch of M25 needs more capacity.
And using the hard shoulder to add a fourth lane is about the most economical way to do that. It’s happening anyway. The linked article is just about the introduction of variable speed limits to optimise flow and improve safety. And the results from where that’s already happened on the western sector of the M25 show it works on both counts. It takes a lot of froth to object to that.
And it’s not just about commuters twice a day, there’s a lot of freight travelling on that section from the SE ports to the rest of the country.

IMHO, overall a good plan and £250 million well spent.

M25 is an orbital road, just because you are going round it doesn’t mean you are going into London. Fidelity have a couple of places down near junction 5 and one near 8, for example.

Yes it is an Orbital route but to get around London it makes no sense to go through London plus the congestion charge actively discourages going into London. So one solution to avoid expanding the M25 is to remove the need for people to use it. Obvious solution is to get rid of the need to go near London by moving peoples jobs to cheaper parts of the country. London is not a cheap place to live or work.

how can you cull MPs – unless you increase constituency size?

Do you have a problem with that? To many MPs are there as party lackies, they pay lip service to there constituencies.

Then do we need an MSP and an MP? do we need town councillors, county councillors? often with duplication of representation? A lot of surplus throughout the political establishment.

Obviously asking MPs to cull themselves is a bit like Turkeys and Christmas, so it isn’t going to happen. Look at the was they are so happy to reform the house of Lords?

Most schools and offices work the same hours, as do shops, have staggered opening times

and boost the quality family time even further for working parents especially if their staggered hours don’t match each other or the schools.

Proper joined up thinking there.

Yes it is an Orbital route but to get around London it makes no sense to go through London

what if you are just travelling east-west, or west-east to get to work – nothing to do with London.

Obvious solution is to get rid of the need to go near London by moving peoples jobs to cheaper parts of the country. London is not a cheap place to live or work.

what if I want to live and work near London or in the south?

why not move the jobs that in the grim north down to the south, then people will have to follow and we can have a decent public transport system as all the jobs are in the south.

why not move the jobs that in the grim north down to the south, then people will have to follow and we can have a decent public transport system as all the jobs are in the south.

which is what has been happening for years… hence the mess now.

what if I want to live and work near London or in the south?

Which bit of the south? have a look at the job market in Cornwall… I know on the maps in London they do mark the bit outside the M25 There be Dragons… but try and remember that there is a country away from London and the commuter belt.

get rid of the need to go near London by moving peoples jobs to cheaper parts of the country.

Good idea. 😆
It’s happening.
And it’s increasing demand on the country’s transport infrastructure.
If you’re a little confused about the M25, it’s the road that links Kent with the Midlands; and East Anglia with the South West; and all the other combinations in between.
The one place the M25 doesn’t go to is London: it avoids that.

So one solution to avoid expanding the M25 …

You’re creating your own problems.

Nowt compared to the 12,000,000,000 wasted on the NHS phone system that’s useless.

Which bit of the south? have a look at the job market in Cornwall… I know on the maps in London they do mark the bit outside the M25 There be Dragons… but try and remember that there is a country away from London and the commuter belt.

I am in awe of your intellect…

I am in awe of your intellect…

Well as your the one who said south and meant london, i thought i ought to correct you.

I live in the South, but not London – how does that work then?

plus I said

what if I want to live and work near London or in the south?

that’s an or, implying that I don’t have to be near London to be in the South.

gorehound a useless phone system has litle to do with spending 250 on a new scalextrix track for a motorway,it just allows drivers to arrive at the next crash or delay a bit quicker and to wait longer, for it to be cleared.

mrmo – Member

But yes cull MPs, ministers, etc first.

Coalition policy until the Lib Dems had a fit of pique

ask Ed what his view is on the number of MP’s for the next Parliament 😉

No problem with me – this and other widening schemes keep me in work – and hundreds/thousands of others, just as the Olympics did.

However, I’ll put together a more constructive argument when I get time.

Getting rid of the Dartford Toll booths will get rid of a huge amount of congestion. Going up to £2 next week. It always caused mega queues when they change. It’s all paid for and the official line of “tolls reduce pollution” is bizarre to say the least.

I don’t see why they don’t just introduce a hard shoulder system. It works in plenty of other places.

Well, 18,000,000 people live within the normal commute time into London. That’s 1/3rd of the population of the UK. Project – you live in north Wales – if there’s more than 1m people within an hours drive of you I’d be surprised.
Building real public transport systems would be much better use of the money – Crossrail, Chelsney, Airtrack, Crossrail 3, HS3 etc, etc. But not guided bus lanes or the Edinburgh tram obviously.

London is the capital city and the South East the centre of a very large portion of our economic productivity. I’d rather see £250m spent on the M25 than £32bn on HS2

Spare a thought for those of us on the South Coast, now the South Downs is a National Park we’re fixed with one road across and 3 North. I don’t know anyone who still drives into London, it’s people trying to get round it!

That and all the trains North have to go through the place too, (cheers Beeching) that city locks down the South East travel wise for about 5 hours a day…

Basically, I should have a special lane all to myself.

Basically, I should have a special lane all to myself.
😆

Project, just come straight out with it, you hate cars. There, that didn’t hurt now, did it.
😉

Yeah, move all the jobs to the S/E. Leaves the rest of the country for cycling.
😀

The M25 is a nightmare, particularly that strip, if you want to go anywhere for a meeting or flight, you need to be on the M25 by 5.30, 6 am at the latest.

It is the main route for all continental inbound traffic from the Tunnel and Channel Ports North, so the problems are mainly created by Trucks, everyone in our town knows somebody that has been killed by a truck, usually continental and usually due to a sideswipe or just plain being run right over by a trucker watching a dvd or dozing. Without wanting to sound to xenophobic the East Europeans are often the worse.

The simple solution would be to divert the container trucks onto the rail system and disperse by local hubs.

Take the trucks out of the equation and more motorists would use the inside and middle lanes and there would be less accidents, it very seldom car on car, it’s more usually truck on car and they take longer to clear up.

edit + Agree with Dartford Tolls, they did say once it was paid for they would be dropped – ha as if.

The Blackwall Tunnel is equally chocker in the morning, but one solution oft forgotten about if you’re headed North over the Thames, say visiting the London Bike Boat show, try the Woolwich ferry, it’s a free service which is quite amazing in this day and age.

Re-open the beeching lines, I say. Especially the one to Brecon