How do people afford BMWs?

Nobody (except the exceptionally wealthy perhaps) buys expensive cars with cash, for a number of reasons. Mine include:

1: Using cash to invest in things that make money, not almost definitely lose money (in some rare cases you can make money on a car, I once sold an M3 CSL for a couple of grand more than I paid for it after ragging it for six months, crazy).

2: Some people want a new car every year or two. This is very easy to arrange with finance as you can often port the finance to another vehicle without much hassle, and don’t need to put up with idiots coming to test drive the car you’re selling; the dealer or finance firm will come and pick the car up.

3: Liquidity. If I suddenly need money, I can hand the car back and stop paying for it. Sure there is likely to be a penalty and a credit score hit, but I won’t have an expensive lump of metal sitting on my drive that I can’t afford.

If the rate I’m paying on the finance is greater than the rate that my savings are attracting, for sure I’m losing out, but financing makes “owning” a car pretty much stress free, and you can get some really great deals. I currently drive a Merc S65,you could argue that this sort of car wouldn’t exist without financing, as nobody in their right mind would pay that sort of money up front on a car. The monthly payments are surprisingly low and the interest rate on the finance is just 1.8%, while my investments are earning more than this.

Oh and just to add some more fuel to the fire of this thread 🙂 I’ve owned loads of BMWs over the years and they are absolutely fantastic cars to drive. The engineering is massively superior to the junk that VAG (excepting the skunkworks AUDIs) or the frenchies churn out. RWD makes for a better driving experience.

BUT THEY ARE RUBBISH IS THE SNOW AHAHAAHAHA? When it snows stick winter tires on if you really need to get out and about for the three days a year there’s actually snow on the ground, for the other 362 days of the year enjoy the brilliant driving experience RWD gives you 🙂

BMW envy (well any nice car really but BMW seem to suffer from it the most) is a curious thing in this country; back home in the states on more than one occasion I have had strangers come over and start a conversation about a car I’m driving, and the attitude is almost always “Wow I love your car, tell me about it”, whereas here in the UK I’ve had no end of small minded plebs driving aggressively and looking at me with hate in their eyes. Hey it could have been someone from this thread, reading some of these green eyed posts!

The engineering is massively superior to the junk that VAG (excepting the skunkworks AUDIs) or the frenchies churn out

Bo lucks.

Btw I don’t envy BMW drivers any more than any other car. I don’t drive one, but I’ll let you into a secret – I can afford one 🙂

The reason people look at you funny when you are driving one is that conspicuous consumption is not generally admired in this country…

Oh and with regards aggressive driving – the majority (but not all) of the aggressive driving I see here is done by the people in BMWs and Audis – not the other way round. Again, simply an observation.

back home in the states on more than one occasion I have had strangers come over and start a conversation about a car I’m driving

I wonder where you’re from. In the UK BMWs are so common that you wouldn’t talk to someone about one unless it was a particularly rare one and they were into BMWs.

I think the answer for most of those with “executive cars” is that actually they can’t afford them, well as they’re mostly on lease agreements they don’t own them anyway.

I drive a 51 plate 330d touring and when it’s not in the garage having the suspension replaced (again) it’s ace. It’s as sweet to drive on the motorway as it is on a B-road, goes like stink, has more airbags than I can count, does an average of 44mpg and the straight 6 diesel sounds brilliant.

It’s certainly no status symbol but it is a lot of fun to drive.

Whats the mileage on it Wozza?

I think the answer for most of those with “executive cars” is that actually they can’t afford them, well as they’re mostly on lease agreements they don’t own them anyway.

Also if they are company cars, the company will not be paying anywhere near the prices quoted above.
Dear BMW, I’m interested in buying 250 of your finest….

It’s as sweet to drive on the motorway as it is on a B-road

Except in winter. 😛

Personally can’t understand why someone would be happy shelling out anywhere between £250-£350 a month for what at the end of the day are some pretty mediocre new cars. BMW 316 or 318, Audi 2.0ltr Diesel Estate – hardly cars that set the heart racing are they? Dull, dull, dull. Automotive porridge? Struggling to get my head round it to be honest.

Why not spend the money on something nice to drive instead. Sure if you want a BMW for the same money as that new 318i you could have a 4-5 year old M3 Coupe and still have cash to spare to cover the extra fuel and insurance. For less than half the price of a boggo and boring new 2.0 A6 you could get a ten year old RS4 – a car that is no longer depreciating at all.
I just wanted a large car to transport my family and it was marginally cheaper than a mid-spec Mondeo. I have had the nice fast car (TT as most will know 😉 ) and now it is time to get a family car and my opinion is that I don’t need something fast, just something practical, should be reliable and is warrantied. We all make our choices for our own reasons.

Regarding leasing – mine is capped at 10k per year but I won’t go over that – I just get a car through my business as it is a tax efficient way of getting rid of profit and I get to drive a nice (IMO) car.

And the cars I have always got have been covered by the BRVLA (?) ‘fair wear & tear’ policy which means small scratches etc are not penalised on hand-over.

Whats the mileage on it Wozza?

About 155,000 with FSH. Paid about £3000 for it a year or so ago.

Except in winter. 😛

He’s right you know. Winter driving is a bit “interesting”. 😆

BMW envy

ermm no. You’re mistaking hate for envy 😉
It’s because, in the UK, the people who aspire to BMW, Mercs and more recently Audi’s tend to <stereotype mode> drive with little care for other road users </stereotype mode>.
This means that since the 80’s (when this attitude kicked in) there has been a massive social negativity to b|00#y minded w@^(£+ drivers.

European BMW drivers are fine and Merc’s, BMW and Audi’s are all well engineered cars. In the UK it’s linked with a certain social mindset.

Which is not to say that I’ve never come across well mannered drivers of Germanic cars. They are out there but like UFO’s there’s not many of them.

randomjeremy – Member
RWD makes for a better driving experience.

Why’s that?

Mercs? Mercs are for old people. My mum had a very nice E-Class – hardly ever went over 70. Never ever floored it. Whoever got it after she traded it in got a bargain.

The one and only BMW I ever drove had been ragged – and more interestingly had an almost unreadable black speedometer. I’m guessing the previous owner had chosen the trim so that he could negate ‘speed management’ as much as possible..

BMW envy (well any nice car really but BMW seem to suffer from it the most) is a curious thing in this country

Does it really exist? Seems to me people from all walks of life drive them these days. Same with Mercs and Audis. True, they used to be seen as exotic and even my dad aspired to own a 3 series but I don’t think that is the case these days.

European BMW drivers are fine

Not in Spain or Portugal. No-one can drive well in those 2 countries, regardless of vehicle marque.

Try driving in California on the bendy roads. The yanks are so perplexed by the concept of a corner they slow down to 15 mph.

As a bmw driver, its quite unpleasant how anti people are towards the badge, with no real meaning behind their dis-like, as far as I can tell and reading this thread.
Mine is a company car.
It has low Co2 so was a cost effective choice.
I picked the equivalent of a MKI Escort – the 120d for some rear wheel driving fun – I treat it as you would a hire car and it is great to drive – has real soul, versus say a golf gti or similar. Equally I pick my moments and always try to be a courtious road user.
Our family car for ages has been a clapped out Mondeo which is befitting of my earnings, when trying to juggle mortgage, 2 children, wife, biking, etc.
I had a friend in my car tell me cocks drive bmw, which is far from pleasant, yet beyond the car, we rub along well – strange behaviour?

A guy on bikeradar who I was trying to agree a price for a 456ti frame, said if I arrived in a bmw or similar the deal was off, that was an interesting lesson in the art of negotiation for him, as I pointed out I took offence to his comments and withdrew the offer I had made.

Does make me think I might pick a different car when it comes up for renewal to avoid this stigma that comes with driving a bmw. Which is sad, as I like driving them.

randomjeremy – Member
RWD makes for a better driving experience.
Why’s that?

At a very basic level because one set of wheels is providing the driving force, and one is providing the steering, rather than one wet of wheels doing everything.

Big Dave – Member
BMW envy (well any nice car really but BMW seem to suffer from it the most) is a curious thing in this country
Does it really exist?

It’s alive and well in this thread 😉

“RWD makes for a better driving experience.

Why’s that?”

Becuase the car gets pushed forwards rather than scrabbling to pull the car forwards. BMW also used it in their own adverts, the front wheels just steer, rather than having to put power through as well.

The best bit of RWD is in corners though, where rwd helps to give more neutral handling. FWD cars tend to push out wide and understeer out of corners. RWD tuck in and accelerate you out of the corner, helping steer the car round the corner. It just feels nicer and if done with skill can make for a much more rewarding drive.

I assume that most modern cars are FWD for 2 reasons 1. If you go beyond your skill limit in a FWD all that tends to happen is that the car understeers and scrubs off speed. If you go beyond your skill limit in a rwd you can end up in a spin. 2 It costs more to build a chassis that takes power to the rear wheels.

However in real world most people can drive quicker in a FWD than a RWD.

I think the *hate* some people have goes back to the OP question – they assume they cost loads and that the drivers are willy waving. In all honesty I couldn’t afford a BMW or Audi – I had looked into an A4 Avant base model and it was out of my price range this time around (£340 per month) and had accepted I would be getting a more modest car – I had looked at Modeos, Insignias (which I really like the look of BTW), Octavias, Mazda 6s etc then (due to really boring reasons) I didn’t get around to ordering the Mazda I had decided on and the offer I found had gone, taking the price of it back up to £310 a month. Then the great offer on the Audi came up – it just happened that an Audi main dealer specialising in business leases got a load from Audi ex-stock and were the fully loaded ones. I had no choice on colour but it was cheap.

If someone thinks I am willy waving then go ahead, think that, but they are wrong.

JPcapel the cars aren’t the problem its the sales people and detritus that are attracted to the brand to ‘tell the world’ about themselves.

The cars themselves aren’t bad at all.

The other issue is the UK marketing. It really is bad for the brand here in the UK. Strip out the cringeworthy ‘power’ advertising its actually a lovely proposition.

Hence you can’t blame other punters for saying ‘BMW’s are for cocks’ as we see the perception given from the advertising.

Take Audi- they concentrate on quality (i.e. good). Take BMW and previously they have told us that its the ultimate driving machine.

The latest ‘joy’ makes my skin creep.

I drive a BMW too, but im not a sales person and dont feel like a drive like a cock, but yet because I drive a BMW I am a cock according to a fair few people on this thread!

Haterz gonna hate I guess…….

crispo read the above.

One of my mates used to sell cars for a living. In his time he worked for Jeep, Ford and BMW. One of the reasons he quit working for BMW was that he thought most people who walked in to the showroom had an attitude.

Ironically he now sells construction equipment and he likes to be seen in the blingist Audi he can get.

A guy on bikeradar who I was trying to agree a price for a 456ti frame, said if I arrived in a bmw or similar the deal was off, that was an interesting lesson in the art of negotiation for him, as I pointed out I took offence to his comments and withdrew the offer I had made.

There are some very strange/weird people about with funny attitudes to cars?

I would have borrowed one just for the day to P him off. 😉

I drive a BMW too, but im not a sales person and dont feel like a drive like a cock, but yet because I drive a BMW I am a cock according to a fair few people on this thread!

There’s no smoke without fire. 😉

Ten years ago you’d have been safe in assumingthe numpty behind you on the motorway was in a BMW if you couldn’t see the grille of his car in your mirrors, nowadays it seems to be Audis. That aside, they are simply well designed and engineered cars especially if you appreciate driving as opposed to simply getting from A to B. They aren’t as far ahead of the opposition as they used to be but are still at the upper end.

Nearly bought one when I was looking last year but TBH I didn’t enjoy driving the one I tested (320D Tourer) as much as some other makes. What was surprising was that you could spec up a Mondeo or Insignia to a high level to compare against the BMW & they worked out a similar price (full OTR that is).

The worst attitudes I have seen in showrooms were, by far and away, those in the Mini showroom (which was a huge contributory factor in my wife buying a Mazda 3 four years ago). My business partner also had a pretty rubbish experience with them which made him almost pull out of a purchase at the last minute.

Ohh, and Volvo – asked them to send me a brochure and they told me to look on the website for a PDF download.

Ohh and Honda – told us to come back in the new year (we were looking over the Christmas break) if we wanted to test drive one as they were quiet so were going home early. Err, and you are quiet because…

I’ve driven a few decent cars as we have a fair variety of pool cars at work, and I’ve been able to borrow cars occasionally. As a result, I’ve driven most 3 series sized stuff.

There are two sides to the 3 series. One is the image – “I’m a go getter who needs to sit 6 inches off your back bumper, because I’ve got a photocopier lease to sell. RAAWR!”, and of course Surf Mat, and the actual car.

The other side is the actual car. They’re probably about equivalent in terms of reliability, fit and finish, comfort etc. to their competitors. However, they win out on two big points. Firstly, BMWs don’t lose much money, and they don’t emit a lot of CO2. This makes them fantastic value as company cars. Secondly, the 3 series is streets ahead of the Merc and Audi equivalents to drive. Hugely, massively better. The 320d actually does a decent impression of a big petrol engine, and the car goes round corners.

Some can’t seperate the nobby image from the actual motor, which is very, very good.

Funkydunc do you know him as well? If its the same lad hes a top lad/down to earth and warm fella isn’t he?

Hora – Lost you there? Do I know who as well?

Figures from 2010:

What Car? 10 most reliable manufacturers:
1. Honda
2. Subaru
3. Mitsubishi
4. Lexus
5. Toyota
6. Mazda
7. Nissan
8. Skoda
9. Kia
10. Mini

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-1686756/Most-reliable-cars-2010.html#ixzz1XS1Rt6Ai

Which? most reliable new cars
1 Kia Picanto – 98.1%
2 Mazda3 – 97.6%
3 Daihatsu Sirion – 97.0%
3 Honda Insight – 97.0%
5 Honda Jazz – 96.2%
6 Toyota iQ – 96.1%
7 Toyota Prius – 95.4%
8 Volkswagen Golf Plus – 93.3%
8 Mercedes-Benz SLK – 93.3%
10 Mazda2 – 93.2%

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-1686756/Most-reliable-cars-2010.html#ixzz1XS1c7XfX

Warranty Direct most reliable (Jan 2010):
1 Suzuki
2 Honda
3 Mazda
4 Toyota
5 Skoda
6 Smart
7 Citroen
8 Hyundai
9 Nissan
10 Ford

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-1686756/Most-reliable-cars-2010.html#ixzz1XS1jfoHN

And now the least reliable (2010):

Which? least reliable new cars
1 Land Rover Discovery 3 – 67.8%
2 BMW 3 Series convertible – 73.9%
3 Hyundai Santa Fe – 75.0%
4 Renault Mégane CC – 75.7%
5 Volkswagen Eos – 75.7%
6 Land Rover Range Rover Sport – 75.8%
7 Jaguar S-type – 76.0%
8 Ford Focus CC – 77.2%
9 Citroën C4 Grand Picasso – 77.4%
10 Volvo S80 – 77.6%
10 Ford S-Max – 77.6%

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-1686756/Most-reliable-cars-2010.html#ixzz1XS25GF8W

Warranty Direct least reliable (Jan 2010)
1 Jeep
2 Porsche
3 Landrover
4 Alfa Romeo
5 Chrysler
6 Jaguar
7 Audi
8 MG
9 Mercedes
10 Saab

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-1686756/Most-reliable-cars-2010.html#ixzz1XS29N7hi

2011’s figures so far (best):

1 Toyota Corolla 4.00
2 Suzuki Alto 7.00
3 Honda HR-V 8.00
4 Ford Fiesta 14.00
5 Honda Jazz 16.00
6 Volvo S40 18.00
7 Mazda 2 20.00
8 Mitsubishi Colt 21.00
9 Lexus IS 21.00
10 Toyota Yaris 22.00

Worst:

1 Mercedes-Benz SL 349.00
2 Mercedes-Benz CL 327.00
3 Land Rover Range Rover 295.00
4 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 287.00
5 Nissan Pathfinder 269.00
6 Renault Espace 264.00
7 Jeep Grand Cherokee 256.00
8 Mercedes-Benz V-Class 248.00
9 Renault Vel Satis 247.00
10 Citroen C8 238.00

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-1686756/Most-reliable-cars-2010.html#ixzz1XS29N7hi

2011’s figures so far (best):

1 Toyota Corolla 4.00
2 Suzuki Alto 7.00
3 Honda HR-V 8.00
4 Ford Fiesta 14.00
5 Honda Jazz 16.00
6 Volvo S40 18.00
7 Mazda 2 20.00
8 Mitsubishi Colt 21.00
9 Lexus IS 21.00
10 Toyota Yaris 22.00
I would only look at either the Volvo or Lexus for rep mobiles out of that list from an image point of view.

mmmmm Lexus RX400H

mmmmm Lexus RX400H

New car perchance?

All that reliability stuff needs to be taken with a massive pinch of salt.

The 2010/2011 numbers include the Renault Vel Satis, which isn’t sold here any more, and in any case only dribbled out of the showrooms. The Citroen C8’s still on sale, but I’ve only ever seen about three. SAAB have essentially closed down, so again, you’re hardly talking representative samples, and MG disappeared in 2008.

The reason people look at you funny when you are driving one is that conspicuous consumption is not generally admired in this country…

On the contrary, I think it is far too much admired.

Deviant do you buy cars based solely on reliability figures? You sound like a fun guy 😉

One of my mates used to sell cars for a living. In his time he worked for Jeep, Ford and BMW. One of the reasons he quit working for BMW was that he thought most people who walked in to the showroom had an attitude.

Ironically he now sells construction equipment and he likes to be seen in the blingist Audi he can ge

Stuart?

Yep brummy Stu! Small world ay. Unfortunately dont get to see him that much these days, as he’s all loved up and my lifes a bit mad.