Have I borke the law, am I a thief?

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  • Have I borke the law, am I a thief?
  • peter1979
    Member

    Ok so some minor details have been changed to protect their identities but the story goes like this.

    Just recently decorated the back room and wanted to get a piece of furniture in there in time for christmas gathering. Bought said piece of furniture from well known high street department store as it was advertised that it would be delivered by christmas.
    The day after purchase my wife receives a phone call saying sorry we are out of stock, so we decided to get a refund and try elsewhere. Refund given and a new similar piece of furniture bought from a similarly well know high street furniture store.

    A few days before christmas both pieces of furniture arrive within 1 day of each other. My wife, not knowing why its happened gladly accepts both and we check to make sure that furniture item 1 was refunded, which it was. So we decide we prefer the look of furniture item 1 and process a collection and refund for item 2. Item 2 collected and refunded.

    So we are now +1 item at no cost (item value approximately £600) and feeling not too guilty about it really. Today my wife has a phone call from Furniture Item 1 store, nothing was discussed as my wife made an excuse that she was busy and could they ‘call back later?’. Since then she has had a voicemail asking if she could call back but no further calls or police at the door or such.

    So my question is. Am I a thief? Can I keep the item, or can they call the rozzers on me? What would you have done?

    Pete

    Premier Icon easygirl
    Subscriber

    Yes you are a thief
    You have 1 dishonestly appropriated property
    2 belonging to another
    3 with the intention of permantly depriving them of it.
    Thief, thief 🙂

    I have been in a similar situation in the past and got to keep the item. However it wasn’t £600 worth to be fair. I would sit it out and see what happens

    Premier Icon siwhite
    Subscriber

    Yup, it meets the definition of Section 1 of the Theft Act;

    “Dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive…”

    If you want to keep the bit of furniture you like, just pay for it and it becomes yours.

    dan77
    Member

    I wouldn’t make a point of contacting them, but I wouldn’t ignore them if they tried to contact me incase they do try and take it further, worse case scenario is you have to pay for the one you preferred, hopefully they give up and you get it for free.

    hora
    Member

    You’ve deprived a highly-taxed business of £600.

    You dont feel bad about it?

    And you’ve had to ask the question. Who taught you you morals, your parents?

    Email them, I have had companies reply ‘thanks for letting us know, just keep it though’. Keep email plus be not a thief.

    peter1979
    Member

    hora – Member

    You’ve deprived a highly-taxed business of £600.

    You dont feel bad about it?

    And you’ve had to ask the question. Who taught you you morals, your parents?

    No I dont really. Would you? I think the parents thing is a bit harsh.

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    Wouldn’t it fall under the ‘unsolicited gift’ bit of the law?

    hels
    Member

    Yes, you have an item that came to you through dishonest means. A sin of omission right enough, but still very wrong.

    Phone the company and explain that it was a misunderstanding between you and your wife, you are very sorry and offer to pay for it.

    Would I feel guilty ? I would have burst into flames by now, but then I was raised to believe that lying and stealing are wrong.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    I’d have phoned them up, but then I’m honest and not a thief.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    I would have burst into flames by now, but then I was raised to believe that lying and stealing are wrong.

    I know, kids these days. They even have to ask if stealing is wrong….

    5thElefant
    Member

    I’d be worried what else my wife was up to if she was as dishonest as that. Paternity test?

    wiggles
    Member

    If they hadn’t noticed I probably wouldn’t bring it up, but wouldn’t ignore them if they called me.

    Edit: didn’t realise it was £600 would definitely call then

    IanMunro
    Member

    No I dont really. Would you? I think the parents thing is a bit harsh.

    Presumably that means you think your parents have better morals than you then?

    hh45
    Member

    Well, you ought to either pay or return it but it doesn’t appear that you set out with intent. You should have told the delivery person that it had been cancelled but I can imagine how, on the spot as it were you didn’t do that. You’ve created some bad karma for yourselves here but I cant’t imagine you will get into trouble. The warehouse dispatch person may get spoken to though!

    hora
    Member

    Harsh? Ask your mums opinion. Mine would be pissed off with me. I imagine yours would too.

    Its just weird that you had to ask. I walked out of a B&B yesterday and realised after I’d left that I hadnt paid (I went back)

    Premier Icon bearnecessities
    Subscriber

    I’m not a preachy sort (I don’t think!) but:

    Today my wife has a phone call from Furniture Item 1 store, nothing was discussed as my wife made an excuse that she was busy and could they ‘call back later?’

    ..as you were typing those words, did it not actually register how wrong that is??

    ScoobysM8
    Member

    Fine. Be a thief if you want. It’s your choice. But don’t moan if someone nicks your bike.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    Right, I’ve got a rope, anyone else up for a lynching?

    ninfan
    Member

    Another vote for unsolicited goods here!

    As Easy girl says a well and truly a thief!

    Jamie
    Member

    “OP in sticking his old fella in a hornets nest and acting surprised when it gets stung shocker*

    The fact you’re making a concerted effort to now avoid paying for it makes you both a thief and devoid of morality. Shame on you and your wife frankly.

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Subscriber

    Yes, I think it’s theft and no I wouldn’t keep it.

    Jamie
    Member

    Shame on you and your wife frankly.

    Odd name for a wife.

    tpbiker
    Member

    If they didn’t chase me up I’m not convinced I’d fess up, and I don’t think I’d feel bad about it either. Its not like a small private business.

    but…. if they realised their mistake and chased me up asking to pay I would, no questions.

    peter1979
    Member

    Harsh? Ask your mums opinion. Mine would be pissed off with me. I imagine yours would too.

    They were disappointed when I told them, but when I asked what they would have done they couldnt reach an agreed answer. The thing is, when its hypothetical most people take the moral high ground, but when it happens its sometimes a different story. You suddenly think you could save yourself a few hundred quid here, maybe spend it on something else instead!

    oldboy
    Member

    I once went to my bank (in the days before there were cash machines on every street corner) and withdrew £50. Got back to work and found I’d been give £100. I took the £50 back, realising the poor bank clerk would have been in serious trouble if I hadn’t done so. So, OP, do the right thing here.

    Premier Icon bearnecessities
    Subscriber

    They were disappointed when I told them, but when I asked what they would have done they couldnt reach an agreed answer.

    Ah, I’m going with troll. 😉

    They were disappointed when I told them, but when I asked what they would have done they couldnt reach an agreed answer. The thing is, when its hypothetical most people take the moral high ground, but when it happens its sometimes a different story. You suddenly think you could save yourself a few hundred quid here, maybe spend it on something else instead!

    No, I’m sorry there is no way I could happily steal £600 through any means from anyone, whether they are a large multi national company or otherwise. It’s theft and morally bankrupt.

    gordimhor
    Member

    How about this scenario. They realise you have the goods, contact you again but it’s not convenient for you to take the call. The company go to debt recovery specialist, who charge interest, notify the credit rating agencies and eventually the sheriff officers force entry to your home.
    It was an error rather than intent but you have their goods they know it they want to be paid.Pay up now and no harm is done.

    The thing is, when its hypothetical most people take the moral high ground, but when it happens its sometimes a different story.

    I’m not so sure. I told my insurers when the actual cost of new carpets was several hundred pounds less than the quote (fitters misinterpreted my drawings). They had already paid me based on the quote, fitters said they wouldn’t say anything to insurers, but there wasn’t any question about what was the right thing to do. They asked for a cheque for the difference, and got one.

    MrSmith
    Member

    Your moral compass is broken.

    69er_Gav
    Member

    As a store manager for a relatively large retailer, i’d say thief is a little strong however you have been dishonest and should return the item.

    The fact it’s £600 worth is key as most retailers wont sit back and let you take it without a fight, especially as they’ll have proof you haven’t paid. I assume it was signed for when delivered?

    If we wrongly delivered £600 worth of stock in a similar scenario, i’d be straight on your back to get the funds or the item back. Were it £30 i’d probably just suck it up. The fact you ordered it in the first place suggests you can afford it.

    I think you know the right thing to do.

    peter1979
    Member

    The fact you’re making a concerted effort to now avoid paying for it makes you both a thief and devoid of morality. Shame on you and your wife frankly.

    This has been my favourite one so far.

    Im not so bothered about the morality behind it. I havent lost sleep over it as I dont believe its really that bad. I paid for an item which couldnt be delivered on time, it was refunded then mistakenly delivered. I didnt go out of my way to steal it, it just came into my possession. I haven’t particularly gone out of my way to rectify the situation and really wanted to know the legalities behind it before I proceed. (to put it on ebay (im joking))

    It sounds like someone has noticed that a refund has been made but an item has not reappeared in stock – I suppose you need to consider if that someone’s arse is on the line for refunding you without confirming your item was on the truck or in the warehouse – and how you might feel if it was you in that person’s situation. You haven’t paid for the item, it’s not yours. Noone’s died or been physically injured so it’s not exactly crime of the century – so I won’t be using any exaggerated hyperbole, and the fact that it’s all a bit faceless makes it easier for you I guess. But I reckon you know it’s not yours. Looks like you’ll have to give it back.

    peter1979
    Member

    I think you know the right thing to do.

    Cheers for the insider info Gav. I know the right thing to do, call and get it paid, which is what is going to be done tomorrow. However, i’d want to know what happens if this doesnt happen.

    From talking with my sister who is in retail management she told me that previously she had mistakenly given a customer a PS3 with a mobile phone contract as it was part of a free gift deal. However it turns out the deal was supposed to be with a free PS3 motion controller, not PS3 console and had to chase up the customer to get it back. The customer basically said ‘its your mistake, sorry’ and it turns out that the my sisters company couldnt or wouldnt chase it any more (of which im not sure). Which made me think perhaps there is no legal grounding to getting the item back once it has been delivered.

    Technically, I’d say its theft, but I wouldn’t blame you for keeping it.
    But I reckon they are going to chase you for it.

    Premier Icon takisawa2
    Subscriber

    If they’ve a stock control / inventory system that lets this sort of thing happen then your probably not the first that’s had a free lunch on them.

    It’s probably breach of contract – read your T&C’s

    Im not so bothered about the morality behind it. I havent lost sleep over it as I dont believe its really that bad

    Ahhh yes, definitely a troll.

    Premier Icon lapierrelady
    Subscriber

    To ‘borke’ the law is surely ill-advised, in any context.

    grum
    Member

    A building society accidentally gave me £1500 of shares when they demutualised (I was actually too young to be issued them according to the terms of the demutualisation).

    Sold them and kept the money and never lost a wink of sleep over it.

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