Glasgow Rangers

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  • Glasgow Rangers
  • uwe-r
    Member

    Would Scottish football (and maybe Scotland) be better of in the long run if they just wound it up.

    don simon
    Member

    Does that really matter? My concern is whether a badly managed company should be allowed to survive or not?

    Premier Icon DirtyLyle
    Subscriber

    I know it makes me a bad person, and it’s a pretty craven thing to wish for, but I reeeeeally hope they go out of business. Horrible club, with a suspiciously high percentage of horrible fans. Rangers and Celtic are part of (only part though, mind) the reason Scottish football is so utterly crap at the moment.
    I’m a Caley fan, to declare my interest.

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Subscriber

    Hope it does, might make footballers think about their overpaid wages for working 90 mins a week.

    Junkyard
    Member

    i tis too importnant to Scottish football fo rthis to happen

    Celtic would be trying ASAP to leave th eleague for obvius reasons

    DS football is much more than just a business- like a true capitalist you know the price of everything and the value of nothing πŸ˜‰

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    I suspect I’m not the only Manchester resident who’d probably raise a glass to their demise. If no other city had their delightful fans hoisted upon them, I’m sure they wouldn’t miss them. They’re animals, quite frankly.

    They’ll still be animals of course, just animals with fewer reasons to leave Glasgow

    uwe-r
    Member

    I’m not Scottish but you get the vibe there is very little sympathy with their plight. Even the media who generally love to get on the side of the fans seem a bit passive towards the current events.

    BlindMelon
    Member

    No, the revenue that the other clubs get from having Rangers in the league would dry up after Celtic join the English leagues. I can’t see any of the TV companies shelling out for the rights to watch the smaller clubs.

    I don’t think Scotland would be better off either, the numpties that want to cause trouble will just find another excuse to act like morons. See last years riots.

    matt_bl
    Member

    Junkyard – Member
    i tis too importnant to Scottish football fo rthis to happen

    There are some interesting arguements that suggest this would not be the case and that removing one or both of the old firm would actually have a positive effect for the other clubs in the league and scottish football as a whole.

    Why should a team/club/business that has systematically been cheating for god knows how long, be allowed to carry on?

    Of course they could always apply to join an English league if they go into liquidation!

    Matt

    Gary_M
    Member

    binners I’m sure residents of other cities would say the same about Manchester United fans!

    If they can’t sort their finances out then they go out of business, same would happen to any other company that can’t keep their finances in order. Unless of course the govermnet step in to use tax payers money to support it.

    Whilst the right thing to do may well be to kick them out the spl this won’t help any other club in the spl so I can’t see that happening.

    Apart from ‘normal’ folk losing their jobs I could give a shit really.

    BlindMelon
    Member

    There are some interesting arguements that suggest this would not be the case and that removing one or both of the old firm would actually have a positive effect for the other clubs in the league and scottish football as a whole.

    Matt what does these arguments say? Genuine question not being sarky

    don simon
    Member

    DS football is much more than just a business- like a true capitalist you know the price of everything and the value of nothing

    πŸ˜†
    You’ve just made me think about what would happen if Man Utd went under. On the business level I would accept that bad decisions had been made and they deserve everything they get, on an emotional level I’d want to string the b******s who were responsible from the nearest lamp post. I can separate the two.
    As for not knowing the value, this is the essence of building a business. what value can you add to an existing product/service, no? If you can’t add a value, you shouldn’t be in business. πŸ˜‰

    uwe-r
    Member

    I don’t ever see Celtic / Rangers being allowed in the English system. To many issues to resolve to allow it to happen: what league would they go into (EPL? Are they good enough?). What happens if they get relegated? Who do you kick out to allow them in (already to many clubs in England).

    hels
    Member

    Is there a Football league in Northern Ireland ? Perhaps they could just move over there, and take all the fans with them. Or maybe the middle east, or I know perfect, the Falkland Islands.

    MrSparkle
    Member

    Celtic / Rangers being allowed in the English system? Er, no thanks. Enough bigots about as it is.

    BlindMelon
    Member

    Is there a Football league in Northern Ireland ?

    Yes, but the PSNI are already busy with sectarian violence so they can stay put.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Celtic could replace Portsmouth when they finally go bust, next week. They’d never get out of the Championship into the Premiership though. Actually … Portsmouth were destined for the drop again anyway. You could look forward to travelling south for glamour ties like Oldham Athletic, Wycombe Wanderers and Yeovil Town πŸ˜‰

    I say, bring Celtic to the English league and swap them for MK Dons.

    Over half of those that attended a football match over the weekend in Scotland were at ibrox to see Rangers. That is generally how it always is when one of the Glasgow teams are at home. Outwith those two Scottish football is in terminal decline with low attendances, no money and crap players. Take away a large chunk of the tv deal and the subsequent cut in sponsorship, take away the away attendances (etc) and would Scotland even be able to support a fully professional league?

    All this is made even worse due to the situation at Hearts – they are very vulnerable with their current ownership and level of debt.

    It is a bit of a myth that if you then take Rangers (or Celtic) out of the equation then other clubs will somehow pick up this support and thrive. These fans will be lost and to think otherwise shows a misunderstanding of what it means to be a football fan.

    Premier Icon StirlingCrispin
    Subscriber

    Losing Celtic and Rangers would do Scottish football the world of good. Bring it on.

    Conclusion of discussion at work between me (SYFA coach – level 1, trying to persuade my 5-yr old to support the local team rather than Celtic), a season-ticket holder for a Div1 club who used to audit the the books of big Scottish clubs, and an occasional Hearts fan.

    strackbaz
    Member

    Sorry, but just want my rant…

    I live in Glasgow & have done since I was six. Raised in a Catholic school, brought up around Celtic & Rangers and have tried my best not to get too involved. I have friends & colleagues who are die hard fans from both sides. Went to two Celtic games a few years ago & enjoyed the experience of a live game, but couldn’t get myself into supporting them as I felt embarrassed by the sectarian crap surrounding it all.

    I put it down to the way I was raised by my folks and wasn’t thrust into supporting one or the other. I don’t follow Scottish football because of this feeling of embarrassment (in old firm fans), and it’s a shame as I feel there’s lots of great smaller teams in our leagues suffering because of this. And if I have kids, I won’t be immersing them in the old firm culture.

    So, for what it’s worth, I couldn’t give a monkeys about Rangers or Celtic….in the long run, I think we’d be better off without them. I’m no expert but I think support in smaller teams is what’s needed.

    I did notice last night that it was hell of a busy outside Murray Park last night on the way to Mugdock. It was heaving with press vans, even heading home around 11pm….obviously due to the current situation, but never seen it like that before, even when they signed someone new.

    πŸ™‚

    uwe-r
    Member

    Stack – that is the way I think I would feel if I was from Glasgow. A big chunk of the old firm fan base is an embarrassment (as is the current owners of Rangers), I would not want to be associated with it.

    matt_bl
    Member

    BlindMelon – Member

    There are some interesting arguements that suggest this would not be the case and that removing one or both of the old firm would actually have a positive effect for the other clubs in the league and scottish football as a whole.

    Matt what does these arguments say? Genuine question not being sarky

    The guys who suggested it have looked at the sporting and financial performance of the other clubs when one or other of the old firm have been poor (not a very regular occurence, I grant you).

    They conclude that the money from old firm ‘visits’ can be made up by as few as 1000 more fans per week over the course of a season. Very easy to get if there is a fighting chance of the club actually winning something or getting into Europe.

    Extended runs in cups and Europe, again benefit the clubs to an extent which could easily match, or exceed, the contribution from the OF.

    I don’t have the numbers but it is suggested that in recent years money from Sky to the SPL has been greatly reduced and that the OF get the lions share (I would guess on an appearance type deal). If it were taken away from the other clubs it may not be significant as attendances may actually go up as a result.

    My own thought is that without teams being able to buy players in as a quick fix, they may have to concentrate on producing homegrown. This is already happening in the English Championship, my own club’s youth team are on a particularly good run. The more clubs in Scotland can do this the better for the clubs (nothing fans love more than a local bopy) and the National Team.

    I will see if I can find the link it was a really good analysis, although very focussed on a few years back.

    Matt

    A minority of old firm fans are head bangers but there are alot of decent ones too.

    If the spotlight was shone to the same extent on the minority of fans that follow other clubs as it is in the old firm then no-one would come out of it looking good. In the last couple of years Motherwell and St Johnstone have had incidents of fans giving racist abuse, Aberdeen fans sing songs about another group of fans dieing in a stadium disaster, Hearts fans have had sectarian chanting. Even Scotland fans wouldnt come out of it well with some of the English chants.

    There is a major double standard at play that singles out old firm fans as being somehow unique in what they get up to but they really aren’t anything special.

    Zedsdead
    Member

    If they did go under would there be more money around to be invested in other sports?

    duckman
    Member

    Zedsdead – Member
    If they did go under would there be more money around to be invested in other sports?

    Posted 2 minutes ago # Report-Post

    Certainly be more money for Inverclyde primary health trust to spend on things other than casualty.

    whatnobeer
    Member

    The current TV deal relies on there being 4 old firms games a season. You can tell by the reluctance of the other clubs when it comes to league reform (16 team spl would apparently reduce income by Β£20m!). Without Rangers the TV money will be drastically reduced, the European coefficient will drop even further and Scotland will become more of a footballing backwater than it is already imo.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Very true Zedsdead. Surely Scotland has the perfect climate for…..

    BEACH VOLLEYBALL!! πŸ˜€

    In the interests of balance, apparently men play too. Apparently

    The guys who suggested it have looked at the sporting and financial performance of the other clubs when one or other of the old firm have been poor (not a very regular occurence, I grant you).

    They conclude that the money from old firm ‘visits’ can be made up by as few as 1000 more fans per week over the course of a season. Very easy to get if there is a fighting chance of the club actually winning something or getting into Europe.

    Extended runs in cups and Europe, again benefit the clubs to an extent which could easily match, or exceed, the contribution from the OF.

    I don’t have the numbers but it is suggested that in recent years money from Sky to the SPL has been greatly reduced and that the OF get the lions share (I would guess on an appearance type deal). If it were taken away from the other clubs it may not be significant as attendances may actually go up as a result.

    My own thought is that without teams being able to buy players in as a quick fix, they may have to concentrate on producing homegrown. This is already happening in the English Championship, my own club’s youth team are on a particularly good run. The more clubs in Scotland can do this the better for the clubs (nothing fans love more than a local bopy) and the National Team.

    It is a different era now. One of the biggest problems Scottish football faces is the amount of money on offer in England. In the early 80s Aberdeen or Dundee United could bring through youth and build their team and progress year on year. Now if a promising youngster comes through they will sell before they have even fully established themself in the team. The young player will go to the premiership or championship, immediately earn about 5 – 10 times his salary – and that is often them just being signed for ‘potential’ rather than to go straight into the first team.

    Happens even with the old firm. Islam Feruz, who was (maybe still is) the biggest Scottish youth prospect hadnt even made a competitive first team appearance for Celtic before being lured to Chelsea on bigger wages. That is bigger wages to play for their youth team, he would probably have made his breakthrough to the first team in Scotland this season.

    (Think the max an individual club gets from the TV is about Β£2million and the minimum is Β£850000. So there is a gap but it is not that much, the likes of Hearts, Aberdeen etc will be somewhere between the two figures.)

    matt_bl
    Member

    It’s the current system which has led to Scotland becoming a footballing backwater, if indeed it is. It doen’t offer a way out merely more of the same.

    Edited for latest post: I agree the smaller clubs really struggle to get full value for young players, but it is viable. Kyle Lafferty went to Rangers for 3M, which kept us in cut price full-backs for over a year.

    Matt

    uwe-r
    Member

    Football in Scotland must be at an all time low in terms of reputation. Other than Celtic clubs seem to get weaker and weaker the quality lower and the dominance even greater. The result is I have absolutely zero interest in the Scotish title race.

    If it was a more open contest (a bit like the English Championship) then it creates real excitement and the TV companies / sponsors would benefit from that.

    The whole thing needs a rethink!

    Premier Icon totalshell
    Subscriber

    as long as football allows clubs to avoid paying taxes then this will continue. as soon as football says… to play with us next season you have to have published a full and complete set of accounts at year end and have no outstanding bills then football will be clean and simple.
    but when as in rangers case a guy ‘buys’ a club by ‘borrowing’ the money from a company who he promises to give the next 4 years tickets sales to in return how much more dodgy can it get. leeds utd has never revealed the individuals who owned/ owns the club. how can that be right?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Absolutely bang on! I’ma Man Yoo fan and could weep looking at our clubs finances. We were always profitable, never lived beyond our means, famously ‘the biggest club in the world’. And now look at us. Saddled with vast debt acquired by some yank carpetbaggers, and now apparently the clubs responsibility! All while they rip hundreds of millions out of the club in ‘fees’

    How the hell this state of affairs can be legal is utterly beyond me

    loum
    Member

    This state of affairs is maintained by the fans, and in particular the armchair fans. TV money is the cause, cancelling Sky subscriptions is the solution.

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    Sport should be amateur and business kept out of it.

    Never going to happen of course, that’s how it should be.

    Been a footy fan since the days when Sir Alf left the Town to go off and win the world cup. The Premiership was for me start of a slow decline in my enjoyment in the game. Thats the point where having more money than sense became de riguer in the game. I stopped having any interest at all in the proceedings in 2002 when it became apparent to me that no amount of good management business or sporting wise could overcome the money issues. Hopefully the wholesale demise of well supported clubs will bring sense back into it.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    Wound up? They should get kicked out if even a quarter of the recent revelations are found to be true.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    When will the hilarity end! :mrgreen: . SFA say craig whyte is not a fit and proper person!

    whatnobeer
    Member

    SFA in “No shit Sherlock” announcement.

    stuartie_c
    Member

    Waste of everyone’s time – might as well have staged an inquiry into whether the Pope wears a big **** hat. A more pertinent enquiry might be whether the vultures waiting to pick over the carcass are fit and proper – Dave King and Paul Murray, for instance. As ex-directors, they are deeply implicated in the whole sorry mess.

    This is the perfect storm for The Rangers – well explained here:

    http://rangerstaxcase.com/

    druidh
    Member

    The SFA will turn a blind eye to King and Murray if it means they can get through this season.

    fatboyslo
    Member

    Stirling Albion

    The only team I’ll make the trip from Yorkshire to Scotland for

    stuartie_c
    Member

    The SFA will turn a blind eye to King and Murray if it means they can get through this season

    Yup.

    A minority of old firm fans are head bangers but there are alot of decent ones too.

    If the spotlight was shone to the same extent on the minority of fans that follow other clubs as it is in the old firm then no-one would come out of it looking good. In the last couple of years Motherwell and St Johnstone have had incidents of fans giving racist abuse, Aberdeen fans sing songs about another group of fans dieing in a stadium disaster, Hearts fans have had sectarian chanting. Even Scotland fans wouldnt come out of it well with some of the English chants.

    There is a major double standard at play that singles out old firm fans as being somehow unique in what they get up to but they really aren’t anything special.

    Lots of sense there Omar.

    I suspect I’m not the only Manchester resident who’d probably raise a glass to their demise. If no other city had their delightful fans hoisted upon them, I’m sure they wouldn’t miss them. They’re animals, quite frankly.

    They’ll still be animals of course, just animals with fewer reasons to leave Glasgow

    I read a recent freedom of information piece recently which correctly stated that there were more Man U fans arrested when you lot came up for the CL qualifier that season, but carry on.

    I don’t think Scotland would be better off either, the numpties that want to cause trouble will just find another excuse to act like morons. See last years riots.

    I think you’ll find the riots were actually in England, not Scotland.

    stanfree
    Member

    Rancid club and equally rancid fans and no i’m not a Celtic supporter. If this has been going on for years then strip them of those titles as the money they generated from playing in the champs league etc was gained by devious practises. I hope they go to the wall have to change there name and start again in Division 3 where they will get a doing from elgin city.

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