Getting speed limit reduced/traffic calming measures installed – how?

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  • Getting speed limit reduced/traffic calming measures installed – how?
  • Premier Icon woody2000
    Subscriber

    The road outside my house is a 30mph limit, but we regularly get people driving down there at 50mph plus at least (that’s a guesstimate obviously). Last night (for the 2nd time in 5 months), 3 of my neighbours cars were written off by some idiot driving at ludicrous speeds – given the damage, I reckon it must have been 50ish, but I’m no accident investigator so I’ll never know for sure.

    Given that there are several schools, a playground and of course houses along the road, and that doesn’t seem to discourage anyone, I want to try and get some traffic calming measures put in place or at the very least a reduction to 20mph and some enforcement. I have no idea where to start though – can anyone give me some pointers? Do I contact local MP, or Police?

    TIA

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    I’d start with your local councillor who will know the right people in the Council to talk to.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Get a cardboard cutout of a kid and roll it out into the road from between parked cars – scare some people.

    barkm
    Member

    ‘scaring’ people is only likely to increase risk of a serious accident.

    Can’t be many people who live on similar roads who don’t have this problem. We do. 20 mph helps, but only lowers top speeds a bit, so you’re still looking at 40ish. You’re unlikely to be considered a special case by the council as the problem is so ingrained and everywhere.

    Traffic calming does quite the opposite in my experience, and causes continuous repetitive heavy acceleration, bad for the environment, and noise and from what I can see doesn’t calm traffic, only makes it worse.

    Really the only way is actual enforcement. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an actively enforced 20mph speed limit.

    johndoh
    Member

    I don’t think I’ve ever seen an actively enforced 20mph speed limit.

    They do – plod near us regularly sit there at 10pm on a Friday night generating revenue.

    Not once have I seen them there during the day when actual children are actually walking to actual school.

    rogermoore
    Member

    I don’t think I’ve ever seen an actively enforced 20mph speed limit.

    They do – plod near us regularly sit there at 10pm on a Friday night generating revenue.[/quote]

    I got told on a speed awareness course that there isn’t a fixed penalty for speeding in a 20 zone and if you are caught it goes straight to court – was this correct.
    RM.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    I’m sure these folk are just “pressing on” and “driving according to the conditions”.

    Premier Icon woody2000
    Subscriber

    I’ve fired an email off to the local councillors (one of whom got done for drunk in charge of a vehicle 😕 ), we’ll see what happens.

    It’s definitely lack of enforcement that encourages people to be reckless. On the main road that ours runs off, there are loads of signs warning of speed cameras, but everyone knows that there aren’t any and so don’t give a monkeys.

    Premier Icon Yak
    Subscriber

    Get onto your council.
    The design and perceived attainable speed can make a huge difference. Small changes in street design can change a carriageway designed for speed to a shared place with the perception of other uses.

    this

    to this:

    Its basically a change in surface, but the perception is that you are driving into the same space as the pub frontage, gates and front gardens seem closer etc. Note removal of lines and signage. The driver doesn’t have the additional information to line up on the bend and take it as speed.

    Small changes that work.

    Premier Icon ahwiles
    Subscriber

    scotroutes – Member

    I’m sure these folk are just “pressing on” and “driving according to the conditions”.

    you forgot ‘making progress’

    and ‘you fail your test for not driving like a total c***’

    and ‘i reckon the IAM would make me president of awesome if i ever got round to taking that course i always tell people i did ages ago’

    sbob
    Member

    scotroutes – Member

    I’m sure these folk are just “pressing on” and “driving according to the conditions”.

    If you really are sure then you almost certainly need to reassess your driving capability.

    OP, if people are already ignoring the speed limit by such a margin then lowering it will not help.
    “Traffic calming” is expensive, increases noise and air pollution and increases wear and tear of your car.
    I think enforcing the existing law is probably the best option, and most local police forces do hold open evenings where you can air your concerns.

    Premier Icon woody2000
    Subscriber

    Yak – that’s a great example, cheers. Our road “suffers” from being completely straight for maybe 1/4 mile and that encourages people to boot it seemingly. If it wasn’t for a mini roundabout at about the 1/4 mile mark, it would be much, much worse I think as people would have an unbroken mile or more stretch of pretty straight road to go at.

    Premier Icon Yak
    Subscriber

    Yes – straight roads with good forward visibility will do that.
    Get onto the council about this. If they are doing a neighbourhood plan, make sure it gets in there too.

    This lot:
    http://www.hamilton-baillie.co.uk/
    (not an advert – I don’t work there!)
    have done many similar projects. Have a look for similar examples to yours and speak to your councillors and get them on-board.

    good luck.

    globalti
    Member

    We’ve been campaigning for 30 years for traffic calming in our street and I can tell you with certainty that you’ve no chance. Traffic calming is expensive and once installed, 50% of residents will start moaning about the speed humps so it is now unfashionable amongst local councils.

    You will find that there’s an accident “league table” for your county’s streets and those at the top of the table with lots of pedestrian accidents will get the few funds that are available for 20 mph limits etc. Anywhere else, the council’s attitude will be: “Yours and every other street!”

    The only point you’ve got in your favour is the school; that should enable you to get a 20 mph limit at least.

    maxtorque
    Member

    Firstly, trying to estimate the speed of a passing car, without any actual measuring equipment is extremely difficult!

    Secondly, i suspect the recent crash was not at 50mph. Take a look at some NCAP tests, done at a much lower speed into a deformable barrier.

    Thirdly, getting traffic calming will cause you a lot more upset. Go stand next to some speed bumps when a bus, truck, or van crashes over them and see what it sounds like.

    Fourthly, most people who speed in built up areas are locals.

    Fifthly, the more we continue to treat all drivers like idiots, and pander down to the lowest common demoninator, the longer the issue will continue for.

    So, after all that. My suggestion, if you really think it is an issue is to just move house. Sorted.

    Premier Icon Yak
    Subscriber

    I’m certain speed bumps are not the answer. The road has to have the perception that you cannot drive fast, rather than have stuff on it to inconvenience the driver. This is a change in approach that some councils have got to grips with, but many have not.

    globalti
    Member

    Just re-read one of your posts – if there are signs warning of speed cameras, it means your road is a site of community concern and somewhere there’s a site for a mobile revenue collection speed enforcement camera van. You need to be putting presure on the Police or the county authority who decides where the van goes every day. Make friends with the local traffic sergeant who controls the couple of Police cars still actually patrolling the county; I did, I went and saw him at his office. He was delighted I’d made the effort but could do nothing to help.

    Premier Icon woody2000
    Subscriber

    Yellow line is the main rd (also 30mph, the A marks a speed warning sign that warns you to slow down). The speed camera signs continue all the way into the local town from the initial warning flasher. The red line is where I live – I’m sad to say I don’t know if there are any camera warning signs, but I don’t think so.

    maxtorque – I realise actual speed is hard to estimate, but it’s not hard to know when a vehicle’s speed is not appropriate. We’re not moving – I already suggested it (for other reasons TBH) but SWMBO has said no 🙂

    johndoh
    Member

    I do find it astonishing how many people ignore the 20mph zones though – when I make my regular walk along the one near us, the majority of people are speeding (flashing sign warning drivers constantly going off). Many of these live along the road too (as I often see them pulling into drives etc) or use the school facilities halfway down the road.

    When I drive it, I generally stick to the limit within a mph and often have people tailgating me – and have been overtaken on a couple of occasions.

    poly
    Member

    Local councillors quite like people who come to them with things they can actually influence without necessarily big expense – this should fall into that category.

    Police traffic officers quite like people who are proactive about road safety rather than telling them to catch murders and rapists.

    Don’t go down Molgrips route – you are likely to find yourself in trouble. However I believe some areas were experimenting with cardboard cut out traffic police with ‘speed guns’. Probably won’t work for long…

    Estimating speed is not that difficult but if it were me I would be measuring some points on the road and getting a stop watch (actually I am sad enough to make something with a raspberry pi) to collect a load of data that shows the time of day when problems are worst etc – and so you can repeat at intervals to show if remedial measures are having any effect.

    We have traffic calming on the roads round near where I live. The speed bumps are horrendous, they haven’t maintained them properly, they are all worn away on one side and still very high on the other. They are all different heights and it’s difficult to judge. They are all the way across the road which makes it annoying on a bike too.

    b r
    Member

    Create a ‘chicane’ by parking a big van outside you house, and get a neighbour opposite to do the same?

    Premier Icon Mad Pierre
    Subscriber

    They are all the way across the road which makes it annoying on a bike too.

    How can mini-tabletop jumps be annoying? 😉

    If you complain to the Police about speeding motorists in your street they will often set up a speed trap and (according to my copper mate) most of the folk that get nicked will be local residents!

    Premier Icon woody2000
    Subscriber

    poly – that (collecting some rough speed data) is on my list of things to do, thanks. I do know a couple of local PCs and a few firemen (they’re the ones that get to clear up the mess after all!) though cycling, so I’m going to have a word with them next time I see them to see how they’d approach it.

    br – that’s how the neighbours cars got wiped out, the driver on both occasions bounced off a car parked on one side of the road before careering into cars on the other!

    Premier Icon woody2000
    Subscriber

    most of the folk that get nicked will be local residents

    I don’t see how that is a bad thing 🙂

    Interesting this

    We have the same problem here where the road is a 30 limit , is straight for about half a mile and is sandwiched between two 40 m.p.h. zones. It doesn’t help that it’s impossible to get to the bypass that er bypasses our village and the next, hence people living in the villages just floor it.

    How do you find out who to pester?!

    maxtorque
    Member

    The problem is that blanket limits only teach drivers (and we are all drivers, it’s not “them” and “us”) to ignore those limits. Think, about your driving history. Every year you drive thousands of miles without incident, and you do that at a speed that feels appropriate to you. Suddenly sticking up a 20mph sign doesn’t change how you view the road in front and around you. In fact, a dumb 20mph sign just sits there, shouting out a message that your very eyes can see, for the vast vast majority of the time, to be completely erroneous!

    The simple fact of the matter is that the driver who crashed outside your house at “50mph” didn’t crash because they were speeding, they crashed because they were a terrible driver. Our recent obsession with speed limits, (and machine justice), focusing on some completely arbitrary value has mean’t that there are more and more “bad” drivers on the roads, often who drive at or below the speed limit and so are practically invisible as far as the system is concerned. Everyday you will see poor attention, inappropriate speed (often below the posted ‘Limit’), inappropriate vehicle positioning, poor lane discipline, failure to indicate and use mirrors, tailgating etc etc. Since we took real policemen and women off our roads in favour of speed cameras, those supposedly minor offenses have, imo, been left unchecked. And once you get into the habit of poor, lazy, inconsiderate driving, doing 50mph down someone else’s street (or often even your own!) doesn’t seem so bad.

    Add to this modern cars, that now completely isolate the driver from the outside world, and take little of no skill whatsoever to operate, and becoming a lazy driver is the norm. You simply don’t have to think about driving any more, just do it.

    So, whilst driving is considered just a means to getting from A-B between all the other more important things you needed to do today, rather than a proper task in itself, then people will continue to drive at inappropriate speeds, whatever the actual speed limit is set too………..

    Van Halen
    Member

    get someone to run over a child.

    most road safety works are prioritised on an accident record.

    if teh child is killed this will speed things up otherwise you may have to have a few extra children lined up in reserve.

    globalti
    Member

    As I wrote above, it’s all done on county accident league tables. No deaths = no concern so you and your neighbours are victims of your own success in training your kids to keep off the road. By contrast, in areas where residents’ religion gives them fatalistic acceptance of God’s will, there are speed humps, chicanes and markings galore.

    bazzer
    Member

    Thats the Red Lion at Chalton isn’t it ?

    I ride my motorbike on a route around there quite a lot. Try to respect the 30 speed limit though !!!

    Premier Icon tomaso
    Subscriber

    Alledgedly the 20mph speed limit introduced in my neighbourhood has reduced vehicle speeds, but it is not apparenty. Its no surprise that knobs still drive like knobs!

    Interestinly a mate who lives on a rat run with chicanes and 20mph speed limit still complains because now the Subarau’s have technical features to hustle round and slow down and accelerate from! Irnoically when he is late to pick me up for a night ride he comes down my street at more than 20mph.

    As a convicted speeder I can’t really talk with too much criticism for others… However, much I drive too fast on national speed limit roads I am very adherent to 30mph and 20mph limits. But motorcycles are different right…

    eranu
    Member

    Thats the Red Lion at Chalton isn’t it ?

    No West Meon. Think it’s closed now.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    There are plenty of traffic calming measures that don’t involve speed bumps.

    Round near me we have (as well as speed bumps) roads which have bollards every 50 yards or so alternating “give way to alternating traffic.” You can’t speed through them because you spend all your time weaving in and out.

    Other roads have had priorities changed so that the main road has to give way to adjoining minor roads. So again, you can’t steam down at takeoff speed cos you’ve to give way after every block.

    Where we have speed bumps, they’re universally inappropriate. Huge great things that you can’t hit at 20, let alone the posted 30, without risking severe damage to your car. That and they’re ill-maintained so they’re no longer smooth; hitting one is like driving into a kerb.

    One of the main drags into town was badly maintained for years. Potholes and years of badly patched / subsided patches where utility companies had performed maintenance. The residents complained for years, and it was eventually resurfaced. A month later, they laid speed bumps down the entire length (on a major bus route). Should’ve just left it as it was and saved a load of expense.

    ska-49
    Member

    There’s a road (newly resurfaced) in the next village which goes from a long straight 60mph road (1.2 miles+) into a 30mph and immediately past a school. I’ve seen clips and heard of people bragging that they’ve hit over 110mph into the village. When people leave the village they plant their foot too so they’ve hit about 60mph+ before leaving the 30mph.

    School/MPs/residents have all complained for years and still nothing.

    Consider yourself lucky! less unfortunate.

    Premier Icon honeybadgerx
    Subscriber

    Van Halen – Member
    get someone to run over a child.

    Better still, children on bikes not wearing helmets when there’s a low sun – this means you’re guilt free as they weren’t wearing the proper protective equipment, they’re too young to pay road tax with their pocket money and the sun was in the driver’s eyes so it’s not their fault either AND the accident statistics still go up. Win/win.

    Van Halen
    Member

    No deaths = no concern so you and your neighbours are victims of your own success in training your kids to keep off the road.

    that tickled me.

    i used to go puddle jumping on our busy village through road. i`ll have words with my mum about why she let me…

    bazzer
    Member

    Yep of course its West Meon. I recogised the bend. I ride through there a fair bit.

    graemep
    Member

    Maybe invite (bribe with cakes) the local traffic police along to do some stinger deployment practice? That’ll learn ’em

    globalti
    Member

    We’ve had a bit of success in encouraging residents to use the Police non-emergency number to report speeders; several habitual speeders have received a home visit from the Police and they no longer speed. How much this creates a local “no-speed” zone in drivers’ minds is anybody’s guess but we are now thinking of starting a disinformation campaign by social media, on the grounds that the community is small and most of the speeders and short-cutters are locals and commuters.

    We have had a couple of smiley SID (Speed Indicator Device) surveys and they showed that after we got one chicane installed the numbers of cars cutting through dropped by 24%, which is pretty good value for money. Our street is restricted to access only but drivers coming out of town only have to do a quick left, whizz through then left again and they are back on their route home. The choice between staying on the main road or breaking the law and cutting through is a fine one and depends on where they think they will be delayed the least. I have been on the phone to local highways departments (our road bridges two local authorities) and have got them to replace and freshen up the restriction signs at each end, which ought to help reinforce the message.

    IanW
    Member

    I’m sat on a bus at the moment, my phone gps says we are doing 40mph, it’s a 30 mph zone. Nothing will stop them but absolute enforcement, probably with an AK47.

    hjghg5
    Member

    Other roads have had priorities changed so that the main road has to give way to adjoining minor roads. So again, you can’t steam down at takeoff speed cos you’ve to give way after every block.

    My parents town in Spain has done this to good effect – essentially it’s a grid pattern. Most of the roads are one way although there are a couple of bigger two way roads, and almost without exception they all have to give way at every other junction (the one road which does have priority all the way through is a “shared space” road where there is no distinction between road and pavement and pedestrians have priority at all times). Speeds are low and drivers will happily sit behind cyclists.

    project
    Member

    When i lived in chester, a local person stood at the side of the road taking pictures of all speeeding motorists, what he did with the pictures ,nobody knew but he got the speed limit reduced while getting a lot of cheery waves from passing motorists.

    Perhaps all the neighbours come out ans stand still but with a camera in hand.Flash optional.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    ianw wrote:

    I’m sat on a bus at the moment, my phone gps says we are doing 40mph, it’s a 30 mph zone. Nothing will stop them but absolute enforcement, probably with an AK47.

    Is your bus driver on his smartphone posting under the name of Maxtorque by any chance?

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