GCN on losing weight…and Huel

Best definition I’ve heard of ultra processed food is if items on the ingredients list are things you wouldn’t find in your cupboards at home then they’re ultra processed.

The Biryani did ok on that test

INGREDIENTS: Vegetables (42%) (red pepper, cauliflower, butternut squash, courgette, peas), onion, basmati rice, rapeseed oil, tomato, half fat cream (milk), ginger purée, tomato paste, chopped coriander, garlic purée, butter (milk), green chilli, salt, chopped mint, jaggery, ground coriander, paprika, turmeric, cumin, crushed coriander seed, cumin seeds, colour (paprika extract), fennel seeds, kalonji seeds, mace, chilli powder, nutmeg, cardamom pods, whole bay leaf, cinnamon, white pepper, clove, ground ginger, ground bay leaf, saffron, cardamom

That’s the way I see it.. It’s better than your typical meal deal from a supermarket in that it contains a balanced array of carbs, fat, protein & vitamins…

… So you only really need to measure out how much you want in terms of calories.

Really ? There is no secret magic formula to weight loss…. Just need to make sure that the amount of calories going in is less than the amount of calories going out. I found that by exercising I got more calories going out per day. I kept a thousand calorie deficit going for about 6 months and the weight just fell off (by the way, it was a lot harder than this sentence makes it seem – 1000 calorie per day deficit sucks)..

those people who think there is no link between exercise and weight loss and afraid are wrong. Anything that up to your calorific burn (and so long as you don’t replace it) means that you will lose weight as you’ve got to be able to find that energy from somewhere

so based on my experience I would catagorise that research as flawed…

He also says that the science is not black and white and that individual’s metabolisms  can vary the results hugely. But this area of research is pretty well understood now, Chris Van Teluken describes the same thing in his podcast and book (Ultra Processed People). Folks need on average about 2000-2500Kcals a day to maintain weight, and that’s true of miners as it is of office workers. Eat more food; gain weight, eat less food; loose weight, everything else is pretty much just comment.

The type of food, or type of diet may have [even a significant] effect on you as an individual in the short term, over the long term, its mostly just down to quantity.

I think that the likes of Huel and Soylent

Soylent? There’s a brand naming decision hoping the intended audience either finds it funny, or has never heard of the movie.

I have Huel a couple of days per week, at work, as a lunch when busy.
Its probably the very definition of processed food, but I’m fine with that a couple of times a week.
400 calories for the higher protein version, so a bit less than a supermarket salad or meal deal.
Definitely seem to lose weight the days I have it, but more because it always seems to facilitate a second 💩 of the day!

What’s that? Huel gives you the shits? Hmmmmmm. So it is both nutrition and laxative in one meal?

What’s that? Huel gives you the shits? Hmmmmmm. So it is both nutrition and laxative in one meal?

I found it fine when I had it as a lunch replacement at work for several months, but then I do have a cast iron stomach and can tollerate most things.

Stopped eating(drinking?) it as I just found it a bit boring really, I prefer ‘real’ food! That was just the regular powder though, not the pasta stuff they do.

Interestingly that GCN video debunks the link between exercise and weight loss.

The subtlety that gets lost in that debunking is usually that gym (or turbo) based training a few times a week burns a meaningless number of calories.

Even a decent length MTB ride probably barely justifies a slice of cake.

Even a roadie Sunday club run will struggle to break calorie even if you start it with porridge, coffee and cake, and lunch when you get back.

But if you commute to work every day 10+miles each way, and don’t eat extra, then those “barelys” and “struggles to break even” start to add up.

A bit like saving money. £10/day won’t make you rich, it’ll barely put petrol in your car to commute. But ride a bike to work, put that £10 in a savings account and in 45 years you’ll be a millionaire (and thinner than the person doing a pointless amount of exercise from a calorie perspective each day).

But if you commute to work every day 10+miles each way, and don’t eat extra,

All other things being equal then yes but the research suggests that if you say ride 10 miles then you will be a bit less active for the rest of the day than normal as your body knows if has used up some energy so takes a bit of a rest, even down to less fidgeting/restlessness. It is also difficult to not eat that little bit extra as we are not all measuring exactly what we eat each day.

In my experience of avoiding UPFs I am less hungry and just feel that bit better. It is not very dramatic and hard to prove but I know how I feel and ultimately why eat a cocktail of crap when I can avoid it.

To be fair to Oli it wasn’t just Huel he had a pop at. Morrison’s butties, McD and Burger King were all hinted at.

In my experience of avoiding UPFs I am less hungry…

That’s because UPFs are designed to leave you wanting more.

Removed

That’s because UPFs are designed to leave you wanting more.

Yes, I have read Ultra Processed People so know quite a bit about it!

And once you have spent time looking into packaged foods there are some you can actually eat and avoid UPFs, just not many. Things like Tracklements condiments, Costa Millica bread/wraps/pizza bases are the exception and prove that it can be done but the cost is higher as they are not from mass produced processers that seem to rely on putting in as much crap into the process that they can.

Luckily it is not a religion so way I see it is that as long as I am trying and end up probably eating 90% of ‘clean’ food then not bad.

The subtlety that gets lost in that debunking is usually that gym (or turbo) based training a few times a week burns a meaningless number of calories.

Even a decent length MTB ride probably barely justifies a slice of cake.

Even a roadie Sunday club run will struggle to break calorie

Thats a ridiculous thing to put on a forum without any proper qualification and kind of implies we should all stop bothering.  I turbo train “a few times a week” and ride at the weekend – club run or MTB and average about 3500 weekly calorie deficit on as accurate basis as I can get it.   Having lost 1.5 kg since 1st Jan debunks your statement.  FWIW yesterday’s ride measured through an PM and HR was a 2200 calorie loss on top of a 2000net cals day.  I ate 2,600 calories in return, very roughly speaking thats 1/2lb of weight loss in one ride.

Thats a ridiculous thing to put on a forum without any proper qualification and kind of implies we should all stop bothering.  

No, go back and read what I said.

A mars bar takes 60 seconds to eat

250 (net, on top of your resting calories) takes about 2400seconds to burn.

It’s a re-hash of the phrase “you can’t out train a bad diet”

I turbo train “a few times a week” and ride at the weekend – club run or MTB and average about 3500 weekly calorie deficit on as accurate basis as I can get it.   Having lost 1.5 kg since 1st Jan debunks your statement.  FWIW yesterday’s ride measured through an PM and HR was a 2200 calorie loss on top of a 2000net cals day.  I ate 2,600 calories in return, very roughly speaking thats 1/2lb of weight loss in one ride.

Is a long detailed way of evidencing my point that :

 and don’t eat extra, then those “barelys” and “struggles to break even” start to add up.

You did a 4 (?) hour ride, ate an average ammount of calories and lost about double the daily rate of someone on a normal restrictive diet (aiming for 1kg/week), so over a week where you don’t do that every day, about the same.

So you eat a average number of calories.

You consistently exercise.

You race to a reasonable high level as a result (cause and effect maybe swapped arround but you get my point).

It’s people!!!Huel is people!!!!!!

A mars bar takes 60 seconds to eat

Well fair enough, but my assumption (yes I know) here is that anyone contributing this far into the thread should know a modicum about heathy diets and caloric use during exercise.    Shoving a Mars bar in your face post ride isn’t doing much of your body any favours at all.

You race to a reasonable high level

Not at the moment 😀

Going back to the green stuff, there’s a lot of science out there now that shows we’ve generalised off-balance as a species toward a carnivorous diet and with processed fast food availability a pretty poor one at that.  I have this year tried to defer away from that a bit, helped by Mrs K who has twice now had a lot of success with the Fast 800 diet for weight loss.   Her main meal – and now mine on non-training days – is devoid of non green carbs e.g. 2 c chicken thighs with a leaf salad, and proportionate avocado and pulses.   I feel just as full and reach my net 2k calories with less process food.    I couldn’t tell you if I feel different because its a small part of my overall diet btw.

You can do tiny things to reduce the amount of processing – look for wholemeal products vs “white”, brown sugar, a handful of plain nuts rather than cereal bars etc.

It’s people!!!Huel is people!!!!!!

It’s not; they wouldn’t fit through our equipment. Unless you shredded them first, in which case all bets are off.

Folks need on average about 2000-2500Kcals a day to maintain weight,

Net calories, but I think there is more to it than that.

I can do a local hike around the hills which the apps say burns 2400 calories but it’s weight loss effect seems to be on a par with a short zone 2 ride on the trainer which the apps say might be 300 or 400 calories. I might have had a packet of low-salt crisps on the walk, so knock it down to 2000 calories, but even so it doesn’t compute on simple calorie terms.

So I just weigh myself every day and notice what appears to work. Baked potatoes are always good, Ritter marzipan bars are always about 1lb in weight gain, regular short zone 2 on the turbo is good and easy and effective, running is good but requires more recovery at my age, walking not very good, etc.

I did watch the video and think wowsers when the hurl package was subtly on the table  🙂

I’ve used meal replacements in the past (slim fast) and tbh don’t think they are the solution to any problem other than separating people from their money.

Minimise sugar, carbs, seed oils and booze. Simple, ancestral and unprocessed all the way.

You can do tiny things to reduce the amount of processing – look for wholemeal products vs “white”, brown sugar, a handful of plain nuts rather than cereal bars etc?

Oddly brown rice costs more than white rice despite needing less processing…

Cereal bars can be very bad news.

Oddly brown rice costs more….

I once watched a presentation within which the summary was “its isn’t that healthy food is expensive, it’s that processed food is cheap”.

It takes far less effort to roll process chicken nuggets of a production line that it would be to make them by hand from a free range organically fed chicken, with an organic/non processed batter.

Oddly brown rice costs more…

I used to work at a sugar factory, brown sugar was made by putting some of the stuff back into white sugar that had earlier been removed!

So, vegetables, what are we eating?

Anything that isn’t celery.

I wouldn’t touch Huel with a very long, pointy stick as long as actual food still exists.

Beyond that, cakes, biscuits and chocolate – just don’t touch them. The interesting bit is you soon stop craving the stuff and if you do try some, it tastes almost unbearably sweet. As an experiment, I made some air fryer flapjack as ride food. My mate loved it and though it ‘wasn’t particularly sweet’. I found it sickly to the point where I’m now contemplating throwing out the remaining two. Now looking for a healthier ride bar solution.

I once watched a presentation within which the summary was “its isn’t that healthy food is expensive, it’s that processed food is cheap”.

Yes and once again it will the poor in society who have to buy the crap UPF foods if/when the better off wake up to how crap they are and insist on ‘proper’ food.

Of course if you had a decent government they would not allow UPF forcing the food manufacturers to come up with meals free from ultra processing at scale, just as the smaller manufacturers can today but with reduced cost but we won’t hold out on that sort of proactive policy…

I’ve used Huel for about 2 years. every weekday lunch pretty much. Why do I do it?

It’s quick and easy – don’t need to think about lunches in the morning

400 cals, 40g protein – try getting that from a meal deal

it’s vegan – and nutritionally pretty good

It’s keeps me full till tea

For me, it’s a great option. I don’t use it to lose weight – 400 cals at lunch is a decent amount of calories.

other than Huel I eat vegetarian, homecooked, from scratch food 95% of the time, so an easy, vegan meal, with no faff or thinking is a no brainer for me.

Now looking for a healthier ride bar solution.

Oats, mix in apple juice, add some berries, bake like flap jack. No need for butter or sugar.

Agree about the sweetness thing. we’ve gone back to making our own cakes; mainly banana bread, carrot cake and scones. None of them get any added sugar or salt, and I find the stuff in shops and cafes inedible due to the sweetness.
I find the same thing with salt and savoury food; we don’t put salt in any food we cook, and I frequently find things like soup in cafes unbearably salty.
In both cases, we made these changes, and a general shift to a more plant based diet, for health reasons; I have to manage hypertension, and get problems with osteoarthritis in my knees, so lots of compelling reasons to eat in support of an active, healthy lifestyle. Despite that, I still struggle at times to not ‘fall off the wagon’ big time, especially around Christmas time.

Oats, mix in apple juice, add some berries, bake like flap jack. No need for butter or sugar.

I’ll give that a go. My experience is generally the issue is binding the oats and stuff together. I’m guessing you’re relying on the sugar in the berries to do that? Thanks!

I’ll give that a go. My experience is generally the issue is binding the oats and stuff together. I’m guessing you’re relying on the sugar in the berries to do that?

The apple juice seems to do it. Mix It into oats press a layer firmly into a tin lined with baking parchment, I then use a layer of mixed frozen berries and then another layer of oats mix. Press fit again and bake. Whole thing about 5cm or so thick.

As an experiment, I made some air fryer flapjack as ride food.

Is there a contractual obligation on all air-fryer owners to crowbar it into every possible conversation?  😆

I don’t exclude anything from my diet. Life is too short to be making cake without butter, sugar and other nice ingredients. Just have them as treats rather than something for everyday.

Well fair enough, but my assumption (yes I know) here is that anyone contributing this far into the thread should know a modicum about heathy diets and caloric use during exercise. Shoving a Mars bar in your face post ride isn’t doing much of your body any favours at all.

I think it’s one of those arguments that you can make as simple or as complicated as you like.

At the simple end it’s “calories in – calories used = accumulation”.

Or it’s 2 degrees, a PhD and a couple of Sunday Times bestsellers.

e.g.
Michael Mosely is convinced that intermittent fasting is the panacea.
Your solution is to ride your bike for as many hours as most people would consider it a 2nd part time job.
Some people it’s iDave
Some people it’s kimchi and fermented milks.
Some people it’s not eating processed foods.
Some people it’s meal replacements.

The trouble is that by saying “It’s ………..” is that it makes it sound so black and white that anyone thinking about losing weight is left thinking “f***, unless I eat nothing but fermented cabbage and ride my bike for 14 hours a week then I’m a failure, I’ll just stick to eating the mars bar”.

Whereas if the advice was “do anything that isn’t an utter con/fad, doesn’t matter which”, just stick with it for 5 weeks and see. They’d probably have less issues. Is Huel better than [insert fashionably healthy food of choice here], probably not. Is Huel better than a sandwich mars bar and protein shake in the Tesco Meal Deal, very much likely. Probably better enough that it’d tip most people into a deficit.

The other problem with overwhelmingly complex advice, even “eat less” and “do more” is as soon as they wobble and miss the gym / ride / walk / class because they actually have a life, then they just give up and have a kebab because they’ve already failed.

Tonight I’m going to a spin class (tut tut, don’t you know you should be only be doing 3 hour Z2 workouts, HIIT doesn’t work) and then I’m going to eat a stir fry with quorn chicken (ewwwwwwww, processed), soy sauce (gasp, salt), and golden syrup (whaaaaaatttttt, that’s inverted and will mess up the alignment your glyocelularfascialinsulohemoglobular receptors!!!!!!!).

My weights been like a yo-yo over the years, been as heavy as 24 stone and as light as 13 stone twice in a 20 year period.

My problem is im acutely aware that I have a bad relationship with food, binge eating, stress eating, comfort eating in tough times, and in the good times foods always something that adds an extra layer of joy to everything. Combined with my penchant for high % craft beers weight for me has been a nightmare over the years.  I know what I need to do most times but actually doing it is easier said than done as it’s all a mental game for me.

Interestingly I’ve started running doing the Garmin Coach 5k training plan thing, Since week 2 my appetite has been massively less than what it has been. What I have found is when losing weight from cycling the following 2 days my appetite has been through the roof, I want to eat everything I can and as much as I can, with the running I’ve lost 6 lbs so far but controlling my eating has been much easier, I seem way less hungry, stomach isn’t rumbling half as much and because I’ve reduced volume my stomach has shrank and it’s hard to portion sizes like I used to.

Sure it was Piers Morgan who caught a lot of flack for saying it but having been through the process twice and now doing it for a third time, “Eat Less, Move More” really is true. In terms of UPF food, the next time you guys are eating healthy then decide to treat yourself to something like a chinese or indian takeaway or boxed up shove it in the oven meal for 2 from Asda box, if you’ve been enjoying and eating fine the healthy stuff, the night after the UPF food I can guarantee that healthy food wont seem half as appealing as it did the week before, and it takes 2-3 days for the UPF cravings to subside. The stuff sucks.

My image of Huel:

Is there a contractual obligation on all air-fryer owners to crowbar it into every possible conversation?  😆

Did I mention the time I tried air-frying Huel in my AIR FRYER? 🙂

Noticed a lot of people mentioning calories and calories in vs out.

If you are involved in IF,Keto or low carb then there’s a very high chance your body is producing glucose through Gluconeogenesis. In terms of energy efficient it’s extremely inefficient as it takes a lot of energy to produce glucose from a non glucose source. These kinds of diets have a metabolic advantage

Noticed a lot of people mentioning calories and calories in vs out.

If you are involved in IF,Keto or low carb then there’s a very high chance your body is producing glucose through Gluconeogenesis. In terms of energy efficient it’s extremely inefficient as it takes a lot of energy to produce glucose from a non glucose source. These kinds of diets have a metabolic advantage

Yeah, but it’s still cals in vs cals out, just slightly different numbers. And those diets may work for one person but not for another. I’ve yet to see anyone saying that they can lose weight by overeating.

Van Tulleken didn’t read the paper about miners correctly – miners of course use more calories than sedentary office workers – it is idiotic to think otherwise. This caused him, the charlatan that he is, to come up with some crack pot theory about food and exercise. The Ultra Processed Food fad is just another modern moral panic based on quack science. If Huel works for your lifestyle – go for it.