GCN Hank is is a proper posh dude!

Penelope Keith made a documentary about it in the 1970’s.

😀

I am of the “its not what you are born to, its what you do with it” camp.

Living in North Norfolk ,we are surrounded by large farms and many large estates and houses.

You get the very good, like the Holkham estate here run by the Earl of Leicester, but a fantastic and large employer, who has regular work open days and recruits a lot of youngsters straight from school, made sure his son did every job on the farm first, made sure all of the grounds were open for people to get fresh air during COVID, and invited people with food trucks or businesses to come to the grounds when others were closed for COVID, I know four people that work for him, including one who’s wife died and the lady of the house spent the morning baking for him and went to see him with food, they kept the pub on the estate open at a loss for the estate workers too. They are a large part of the local economy, and hold cycling, running and triathlon events all from the grounds.along with concerts and are a real social hub.

Then you have the other extreme, Count Luca Rinaldo Cantardo Padulli di Vighignolo, an italian viscount who has bought large swathes of Norfolk and is the largest ground rent  landlord in the UK but actually lives on Guernsey, we cycle through one of the many estates near us he owns, the house is falling down, he forced the closure of the local pub and shop, and seems to have bought the land for shooting rights only.

There is a very good website and accompanying book:

https://whoownsengland.org/

I think the vigour comes from people who have such mega assets & then they moan about not having enough money – just sell the **** house then

I know plenty of ordinary folk who inherit the family 3 bed semi, complain about the responsibility but can’t bear to sell the family home. Even more fun if it’s passed down yo more than one child.

Anyway back to Hank – I loved his latest video riding with the infamous Donny Chain Gang.

I know plenty of ordinary folk who inherit the family 3 bed semi, complain about the responsibility but can’t bear to sell the family home. Even more fun if it’s passed down yo more than one child.

I know plenty of ordinary folk who inherit the family home and can’t wait to sell it, to pay off their mortgage and make their life less stressful. I know one who used it to buy a 2nd home in the Lake District.

My oldest mate, 1 of 2, lost his sister and mother during lockdown. His sister owned a small house outright in the SE. His dad passed her estate to him and he’s now semi retired. Just waiting for his 90 something dad to pass and he will have an estate of around a million. He may actually keep the family home as it’s a rather smart Edwardian Terrace and he lives in a 1990’s 3 bed detached,.

In fact I can’t think of anyone who hasn’t been happy enough to take the money. Who would get overly sentimental or entitled over a 3 bed semi?

Who would get overly sentimental or entitled over a 3 bed semi?

Idiots, but I’ve seen it happen.

Good on him.

There are too many stately homes in the hands of the National Trust, (Some due to previous IHT bills?) The value in these estates now is to the community and local business. If they go on the market they will be bought by foreign investors and never used or developed.

Don’t blame him, it looks like quite a burden to me. How many peoples mortgages is that supporting?

Maybe some of the nay sayers should watch a bit of his YT Channel and get some insight to his situation without all of the preconceptions, but maybe he has a 4×4 too?

Don’t blame him, it looks like quite a burden to me

A burden that is pretty easy to not have I imagine while walking away with millions and living an easy life. Not many people have that opportunity do they. Although agree that it is supporting more in the community than if a billionaire bought it as somewhere to stay for 2 days a year.

Not many people have that opportunity do they

I would not necessarily say he is lucky. The current inheritance tax threshold is £325k

Now in some parts of the country that means your parents may be able to die and you get a nice some of cash to put in the bank/ pay off the mortgage as above, bet there is not 1 person who decides to give more of that money to the government for the greater good. £325k will make some people more cash rich than Hank I would imagine

Hypocrisy is great when it suits the narrative

It will be a full time business and burden maintaining that house and estate .

A burden that is pretty easy to not have I imagine while walking away with millions and living an easy life. Not many people have that opportunity do they. Although agree that it is supporting more in the community than if a billionaire bought it as somewhere to stay for 2 days a year.

So which do you want – the estate to remain with someone who feels they should try and run it to continue to support the community (and in my experience, that’s how many estate owners feel) or for them to give in, pocket a billionaires cash and walk away?

The change to IHT rules arguably doesn’t go far enough, but there’s an element of people wanting their cake and eating it – in the general debate, not aimed specifically at kerley.

I don’t think it would be easy to sell and walk away from several hundred years of family investment (blood, sweat and hard work), history and assets and remove that opportunity from your future family. Living with that would for most people be quite a burden. (if you cared about it)

Not to mention the future income from the estate. Accept £Xm from any buyer and once its gone its gone, keep the estate and run it well and its an income for generations (as proven for the fact it’s been in the family for generations).

You get the very good, like the Holkham estate here run by the Earl of Leicester

I think the thing is that you can believe that the way land and wealth are distributed in this country are wrong, without at the same time thinking that individuals who benefit from that system are to blame and wholly evil or lead a blissful existence as a result.

Similarly, wanting to live in a country where unnecessary poverty is alleviated through fairer wealth distribution doesn’t at the same time mean that people’s opportunities to better themselves cease to exist, we should aspire to a society where both are possible.

You can minimise poverty and improve overall well-being without, at the same time, preventing people from doing well for themselves, despite what the Daily Telegraph would have people believe.

I would not necessarily say he is lucky. The current inheritance tax threshold is £325k

it’s actually a round million for a married couple passing property on to their children (or grandchildren) as everyone who has even a passing understanding of the subject knows full well.

Cash rich is very much relative.

I’ve dealt with lots of old money toffs over the years, and pleading poverty is a given.  A shitty old car is often the order of the day, to reinforce this.

But one must maintain certain standards.

There’s always a housekeeper.

There’s always a gardener/ handyman.

There’s always a nanny when kids arrive.

The kids will be packed off to an expensive school.

Holidays will not be TUI.

There’s always enough money lurking for these basics.

That said, fair play to Hank, as above, he’ll provide local employment and seems like a nice enough fella.  Better for community than selling out to a Quatari to leave it dormant like one place local here.

Or, horror of horrors, new money!  Hows about a Michelle Mone or Anne Gloag??  The latter miserable old scroat has a castle along the road from me, currently for sale if anyone is interested.

Bed maker / I wouldn’t disagree with any of those you have said. Just look at all the employment that provides though

The local private school where we live is one of the biggest local employers

I’ve dealt with lots of old money toffs over the years, and pleading poverty is a given.  A shitty old car is often the order of the day, to reinforce this.

Indeed, we had this recently with a chap who owned various sprawling stately homes and grand ceremonial county titles. Turned up in a old VW. Still managed to be delightfully pompous and rude to all our wedding guests though, which was a relief.

So which do you want – the estate to remain with someone who feels they should try and run it to continue to support the community (and in my experience, that’s how many estate owners feel) or for them to give in, pocket a billionaires cash and walk away?

I don’t think I really care.  Just saying that to me it would not be a burden as I would give it a go (it would be more enjoyable and varied than my job) and if I got fed up with it would just walk away with £20 million or whatever.

Sometimes being an emotionless, black and white autistic person is helpful.

Good job you aren’t the custodian of a country estate then. ?

You can minimise poverty and improve overall well-being without, at the same time, preventing people from doing well for themselves, despite what the Daily Telegraph would have people believe.

BWD for prime minister!

Good job you aren’t the custodian of a country estate then. ?

Possibly.  As I say, I may enjoy it and the work it involves and keep it going.  It is however not something I would feel is a burden.

In fact I fancy giving it a go, how do I inherit one again?

So which do you want – the estate to remain with someone who feels they should try and run it to continue to support the community (and in my experience, that’s how many estate owners feel) or for them to give in, pocket a billionaires cash and walk away?

A false dichotomy, surely.

What about splitting it up into numerous properties, selling them and paying tax on the proceeds. Also helps with the housing shortage. No need to lose any viable businesses on the grounds and may in fact increase the potential for more. You could also build more houses on unloved parts of the grounds. Support the community by making it an actual community instead of a place offering a handful of low paid jobs.

Don’t blame him, it looks like quite a burden to me

And there’s me hoping I can spend enough on food before payday next week while putting petrol in the car to get to work. At least you’ve given me some perspective.

What about splitting it up into numerous properties, selling them and paying tax on the proceeds. Also helps with the housing shortage. No need to lose any viable businesses on the grounds and may in fact increase the potential for more. You could also build more houses on unloved parts of the grounds. Support the community by making it an actual community instead of a place offering a handful of low paid jobs.

But those jobs are often head gardener, grounds men, farmers, then if it is a tourist destination, cafe staff, car park attendants, nature wardens etc, so all jobs that depend on there being a nice grounds to actually go and visit, not a small housing estate?

I referenced the Holkham estate near me above, they actually make a point in paying above average wages, my father in laws friend, retired from farming himself when his hands could no longer take it, and now works part time on an education project there “Farm to Fork” educating people on farming, he hated retirement and loves the job, another mates lad works in the cafe, and again loves it.

I guess my argument is that not all these big estates are run the same, and often it is the “old money” that do feel like they have a sense of community as opposed to the “new money” who would rip out most of the houses original features for a swimming pool and cinema room and just have the land for shooting rights and Range Rover parking.

I referenced the Holkham estate near me above, they actually make a point in paying above average wages,

Slightly better than McD’s rates, or enough to go on the same holidays as the landowners?

A burden that is pretty easy to not have I imagine while walking away with millions and living an easy life

I dunno, it’s usually pretty difficult to sell.even one house from an estate like like. I could take a guess that It’s not just Hank that’ll be solely in charge of the estate as a whole – like I said right at the start of the thread its highly likely that it’s in a trust with Hank as a primary benefactor. Let alone factoring in his wider family that also earn a living from the estate.

and often it is the “old money” that do feel like they have a sense of community as opposed to the “new money” who would rip out most of the houses original features for a swimming pool and cinema room and just have the land for shooting rights and Range Rover parking.

Very true

Slightly better than McD’s rates, or enough to go on the same holidays as the landowners?

I can’t afford the same holidays my boss can, I’m not sure it makes me one of the downtrodden masses

But those jobs are often head gardener, grounds men, farmers, then if it is a tourist destination, cafe staff, car park attendants, nature wardens etc, so all jobs that depend on there being a nice grounds to actually go and visit, not a small housing estate?

That’s a handful of fairly low paid jobs. There would be better jobs available in converting the grounds and more importantly, more houses available.

My point was in response to somebody claiming that the only options were either selling it to a billionaire who would leave it empty, or taking on the “burden” of having to run it as a business, implying we should somehow actually be grateful towards them, as if inheriting millions for doing absolutely nothing is some Mother Theresa-esque act of selfless heroism.

I can’t afford the same holidays my boss can, I’m not sure it makes me one of the downtrodden masses

Is your boss taxed at a lower rate than you?

BWD for prime minister!

Too busy trying to work out where the weird creaky, clicky noise on my hardtail is coming from, soz 🙁

Is your boss taxed at a lower rate than you?

Nope

The accountancy press has caught up with the IHT story anyway. A “survey of accountants” has apparently revealed less than half of farming businesses claim all the existing reliefs they are entitled to, so message seems to be don’t panic, get advice.

That’s a handful of fairly low paid jobs. There would be better jobs available in converting the grounds and more importantly, more houses available.

I can only give the estate I work/live in as an example but, those the workers on the estate (like myself in some way) generally have tied accomodation to the job. The full time Gardener for example is rented a house by the estate at a huge drop in market value. If the estate was sold privately he’s wouldn’t be able to live on the estate or afford a house to purchase or rent within 10+ miles of the estate.

The historical workers who also would have had low paid jobs in the past have lifetime rents on the properties – there’s around four or five of these left in our village. Each house is worth in excess of 400 – 700k, and extremely desirable.

Yes they are comparatively low paid jobs, but the quality of life and perks of countryside living with zero commute in some way make up for it.

The estate could sell up, make staff redundant and cash in on the property, those jobs would still exist but would costs to the private properties would increase.

My contact with estates round here was in connection with those tied/protected workers who had protection under the rent acts.

One estate used to hike rents for incomers to keep rents low for the local families. I remember his excitement when he rented a place for £1000 a month for the first time. He still couldn’t believe what Londoners would pay for to rent in the Peak District.  (Going back 15-20 years)

The local hospitality business where I live, have to offer accommodation to get staff to work for them.

The large caravan park gives catering staff a static caravan to live in, the fish and chip restaurant has numerous properties to put staff in.

The property market is completely out of sync with wages that can be earned locally, there is a lack of social housing and very few long term rentals due to the large number of holiday homes and holiday lets.

Should they be given an IHT break as well?

One estate used to hike rents for incomers to keep rents low for the local families.

Sounds familiar – regular rents in my village are around 20% above the local average. But that’s because it’s Cotswold, traditional, picturesque, and have very high demand. We have quite a few families that would be in London but live here because it’s cheaper. Unfortunately as the market value increase due to the current on trend of Cotswold living, the families that have lived here for decades are being pushed out.

The property market is completely out of sync with wages that can be earned locally, there is a lack of social housing and very few long term rentals due to the large number of holiday homes and holiday lets.

Exactly. That’s a failure by government to provide affordable social housing and control second/holiday homes. Though the examples you’ve quoted are not agricultural businesses so not really tied to the IHT/landowner debate.

Recent local news round here to try and make the Peak NP allow affordable social housing within the Park. Quite a well argued case that without it the area will turn into a museum. It also puts big pressure on the local councils to try and meet housing targets in the bits of their areas that aren’t within the Park boundaries.

But then it’s not that long ago the head of NP was chuntering about banning lorries in the Park.  Presumably all the dairy farmers were going to build a **** pipeline, and bins would not be emptied, shops and pubs not restocked….

are not agricultural businesses so not really tied to the IHT/landowner debate.

Yes they are.

This IHT exemption was granted to some of the richest people in the Country in the 1980’s, while the Tory government implemented a policy of “managed decline” to large parts of the Country, including the area I was brought up in. I saw the harm and damage that was done to some of the poorest parts of the country.

Why should they have a tax rebate because “farmers”?

Your examples of these caring, benign landlords is not one I recognise. A friend’s son lives with his partner and young baby in a house in the grounds of a local Peel Tower. It’s part of his employment package. He earns a crappy wage, the house is poorly maintained, he ends up fixing things himself as the landlord takes so long to get anyone out. He doesn’t want to kick off too much as the land owner has history of evicting people who complain too much.

It’s a very shitty, almost feudal system and I would not like to be trapped in that position.

Where I live, the Duke of Northumberland owns huge areas of the AONB. He has no interest in social housing, he’s worth about £500 million. Whenever he sells off land to developers they always get planning permission. Recently he sold off land in a coastal village, which has one of the highest % of 2nd homes in the UK, which then was developed with houses that could only be bought by someone who already owned another house and must be a 2nd home. I have never heard of that be a thing before?

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/152607809#/?channel=RES_BUY

Why should he and his family avoided fair taxation for the last 40 years?

@scud – Holkham is ace. A proper sense of Noblesse Olige.

but – in a similar vein to your WhoOwns Website – here’s the proper Norfolk one, with the maps on. https://www.whoownsnorfolk.org/westnorfolk. And who actually owns what https://www.whoownsnorfolk.org/post/norfolks-largest-landowners-revealed

The only other county I’ve found is Berkshire. https://whoownsengland.org/2017/04/17/the-thirty-landowners-who-own-half-a-county/

Fascinating websites. You end up with little snippets like

Through a historical anomaly the le Stranges own much of the beach and seabed surrounding Hunstanton, land that would traditionally be owned by the Crown Estate, and even a stretch of Hunstanton’s world famous cliffs.