Finding property boundary in Scotland

I’m on the committee for the winding up of a brass band: location, declining interest, and finally COVID did for us and so we’re now in the process of liquidating the assets using the money to set up a trust to further music in the local area.

Part of the band’s assets includes a large hall and an undetermined area around the hall which was gifted to the band by the neighbouring property some time in the late 19th/early 20th century. Currently the hall sits within an area which is completely walled off on three sides and separated on the fourth side from the original neighbouring property by a fence and tree line. Every plan/drawing we can find though shows the band hall and surrounds as within the boundaries of the original property. Seems like boundaries were never updated with the land registry and the deed in which the hall and land were gifted is very vague. We’re not talking about acres of land here but certainly enough that it would be of great interest to a property developer looking to build a couple of big houses or some kind of low-rise apartment block.

Original property boundary in yellow, current assumed band property in blue.

Anyone have any ideas how we might go about getting an official status on the band’s property boundary?

Every plan/drawing we can find though shows the band hall and surrounds as within the boundaries of the original property

It could be that way to effectively act as ‘ransom strip’, to ensure any change of use/redevelopment could be controlled by the original landowner. You may find that the details are in the deeds of the original property.

Land registry search. It’s online.

If it’s not on there then you will need to search the Sasine register which predated it. This will cost 30 quid iirc, they do it for you

It’s conceivable the land is not registered to anyone but unlikely

I am not a lawyer

When I bought a flat in leith 20odd years ago the solicitor showed me the map of the “property” boundaries the block stood on and then the updated unifying one but said that the latter one was strangely hard to find.

Hopefully you will have the same issue. Ask a selling solicitor to look for you. It’s their job.

Every plan/drawing we can find though shows the band hall and surrounds as within the boundaries of the original property. Seems like boundaries were never updated with the land registry

There might be some clarification in looking at the property next door/that gifted the land. Your hall is unlikely to show up on the online registry as its not changed hands since the registry went online. But if the property next door has been bought / sold the deeds for that should show where your boundary is.

Registers of Scotland have an excellent online system. You put in the postcode and it spits out the info they have for free. Worth a look.

Sorry to hear about the band, which one is it? I was a keen bandsman back in the 90s. Some brilliant memories in various bands. Hope the money you raise can do some good.

Unfortunately the property isn’t showing on the Registers website. I think we’ll try knocking on the door of the neighbour to see if we can have a look at their deeds. Thanks for the suggestions.

@sas78 – it is/was Tayport Instrumental in NE Fife. Too many bands north of the bridge to attract any players from Dundee area, and the rest of Fife has Buckhaven, Dysart, Tullis Russell, Kingdom, Dunfermline, etc. so nobody’s making the journey up here. Lack of players seems to correlate directly with the introduction of peripatetic tuition fees in schools. Prior to that we had a full band and were competing regularly, even had a couple of trips to the nationals for our section.

Jesus, i looked at that map and was like “feels very familiar that” thats a nice little plot, i always thought the hall looked like a nice little project but i assumed the bricked up windows meant it was long unused.

Thats a shame about the band but atleast there is good scope in that area for the money to do some good.

As a mully boy it might have been on my radar but for the small fact i’m a flautist.

We are in the middle of a protracted process with the council trying to find who owns a piece of land. I’ve also had sight of a deceased neighbour’s addition to the register that was in flight when they died. From what I’ve seen adding land to the modern register has a few minor flaws; like drawing your own boundary and just hoping nobody challenges it, and/or removing bits that have expensive liabilities associated.

Just buy a copy of the neighbour’s deeds, 3 quid or something. I would be initiating the sasine search before alerting the neighbour.

The hall would make a tremendous conversion, loads of space inside, huge cellar and a nice little garden/orchard round the back, believe me I’ve considered it. But it’s in a very poor state of repair, would probably need a good £150-200k spending on it + initial purchase price. Even if I had the money there’s no way I could persuade MrsFlyingOx to get another project on the go.

I’ve just street viewed it, a no from me – a right money pit (with an unknown boundary) 😉

this

Just buy a copy of the neighbour’s deeds, 3 quid or something. I would be initiating the sasine search before alerting the neighbour.

don’t speak to the neighbour before you know what the title scenario is. It might get them thinking they own it. I’ve just done this for a client, the online boundary search is ok but relies on the Ordnance Survey for the mapping and in a lot of cases this is woefully inaccurate for this type of thing.

In my case tittle search showed the neighbour had put 2 sheds on my clients land but further digging and an older title plan appeared and the boundary was actually in the right place on the ground but not on the title deed the registers have online.

@TheFlyingOx – oh no, we competed in the same section quite a few times – I recognise a lot of the late 90s and 00’s test pieces by looking at your competition profile. That’s a real shame, and I hope the funds you raise can do some musical good. I played with Annan from 92 to 2002ish.

Oh wow, I hated growing up in Taypsie but the band just seemed like a constant. And good. I don’t think my stepfather will ever tire of telling how they all stopped in unison when a learner in a Panda pulled out of Craig Road and sent him flying off his FZR…

The next door property, The Old Manse and showing in the extended boundary on your annotated air photo is on the Land Register here https://scotlis.ros.gov.uk/property-summary/FFE91055/1

It’s likely that there has been a Transfer of Part (TP) which has split the original plot into two. That would have had to have happened before the Land Register existed, and then the old manse has been sold since the Land Register was formed which is how it’s ended up on there.

The existing title and related deeds should show when / if the larger plot was split.

I’ve only had to involve the staff at the registers of Scotland once to find the owner of a property and they were very helpful.  I also would be trying to avoid asking the neighbours first.

presume you’ve checked their are no covenants on the original provision of the land that it can’t be resold?

I understand the impact that killing off free music tuition in schools has had.  A typical short sighted policy by councils  doing the statutory minimum rather than considering the long term bigger social implications.  One of the arguments used here when they tried to do it was there were voluntary organisations who would pick it up!

Have a look on ScotLIS (which is the Scottish Land Information Service). It can be used as a “Zoomable” map which as you zoom in to an area starts to break down into the boundaries of all the land parcels which are registered, when it was last sold and how much it was sold for, great if your nosey about how much a house or piece of land went for. Some of the older stuff is not there and you might have to pay to search on the Sasines. It is a great resource.

Here’s the link.

http://Scotlis.ros.gov.uk

Acht, late to the party as usual.