F1 2019 (spoilers obviously)

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  • F1 2019 (spoilers obviously)
  • Klunk
    Member

    in some snippet of an autosport utube video there was the suggestion that the red bull high rake may not work as well with the new aero rules

    roady_tony
    Member

    “with the new aero rules”
    proposed new aero rules – dont think its been signed up to yet…

    Premier Icon root-n-5th
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    On the subject of the speed Merc have found at Monaco, Maximum Verstappen said in Spain that Red Bull were no quicker than them anywhere in Spain. Fast and medium speed corners Merc were faster as usual, but in the tight Monacoesque final sector where Red Bull have traditionally been faster, the were pretty equal. With the proper Monaco setup Merc have found something else.

    It might be closer in qualifying if we’re lucky. Merc have just refined their car year after year, smoothing off all the rough edges (not without some errors along the way of course). Ferrari seem to have gone the wrong way this year and are getting left behind, Red Bull, maybe lacking Newey’s undivided attention and having to adapt to a new engine, just aren’t really there.

    We need a wet race or 10. It’s a silly sport really, and it’s always had dominant teams, but it really could do with being a lot closer.

    hols2
    Member

    the red bull high rake may not work as well with the new aero rules

    This was posted earlier, but Merc are the only team that haven’t just been following Red Bull’s aero philosophy for quite a few years.
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/47838557

    They’re also the only team to have won championships for quite a few years. The Mercs have generally been very fast, but difficult to set up, especially regarding tyre management. However, Merc put a lot of effort into understanding the tyres and seemed to have sorted it out last year. The tyres were changed this year, with a thinner tread, so that’s apparently caused problems for Ferrari.

    However, Ferrari’s tyre problems may also be related to aero – they designed a lower drag setup than Merc, but that seems to have limited their options on balancing the front and rear downforce to address the tyre problems.
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/47527705

    Klunk
    Member

    proposed new aero rules – dont think its been signed up to yet…

    my mistake, I ment this….

    A simplified front wing with standardised endplates, tweaked dimensions and no upper flaps. This will encourage aerodynamicists to direct more of the flow to the underbody (where it is less sensitive to the disturbed wake of the car in front) than the outer body

    The deletion of the upper flaps at the outer ends of the wing will make it impossible to create the vortices that are generated by the current, highly complex endplates to enhance the outer-body aerodynamics. This will further encourage the so-called ‘inwash’ aero philosophy of directing airflow to the underbody, rather than the current emphasis on ‘outwash,’ which is highly sensitive to the air from the car ahead and therefore makes it harder for cars to follow one another closely

    Tweaks to the front wing’s dimensions and the limiting of under-wing strakes to two each side to further discourage outwash aerodynamics

    Winglets mounted on the brake ducts currently play a part in directing the flow to the outer part of the body. These are banned from 2019, as are blown axles, which currently use air directed out of the centre of the wheel at high speed to energise the flow down the outer surfaces of the bodywork further back

    Barge boards are lowered by 150mm (to make them less powerful in directing the airflow) and moved forwards by 100mm to make them less sensitive to the airflow being disturbed from the car in front

    The rear wing endplates will no longer be permitted to have horizontal gills. These equalize the pressure between the inner and outer faces of the endplate to give a faster flow over the top of the wing for more downforce, but they introduce an extra disturbance to the wake, which worsens the performance of the car behind

    The DRS opening will be increased from 65mm to 85mm. Together with an increase in width and height of the wing, this will make the DRS around 25-30% more powerful so as to allow it to be effective on those circuits with too short a straight for the current system. The FIA will also review the length of DRS zones at every circuit in order to maximise the effect of the changes

    The increased height of the wing will take the ‘rooster tail’ wake coming off the back of it higher into the air than currently. More of the energy from that wake will be diffused into the free air around it before it returns to the level where it will be affecting the following car

    which are obviously not new rules

    Premier Icon bruneep
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    looks more fun than F1

    Klunk
    Member

    oops finger boy sticks it in the barriers

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
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    oops finger boy sticks it in the barriers

    Damn, I missed that!
    Monaco is normally only worth watching for the crashes, it’s often one of the dullest races on the calendar.

    Edit: just seen it on Twitter. Still dull.
    Wonder if they have time to fix it before qualifying…?

    Klunk
    Member

    another fiasco at team vettel

    It’s like they’re doing it on purpose!

    Finger boy bottles it again.

    Excellent.

    Klunk
    Member

    mr pole strikes again.

    mashr
    Member

    Finger boy bottles it again.

    Being 1 place lower than possible is bottling it these days? I would rather he was able to give Mercedes a run for their money.

    Stuffing it into the barrier in FP3, nearly going out in Q1 and hitting the barrier in Q3 I’d say is bottling it.

    I’d rather Ferrari be taking it to Merc but Vettel cracked under pressure as usual. Just a shame LeClerc went out in Q1.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
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    I’d rather Ferrari be taking it to Merc but Vettel cracked under pressure as usual. Just a shame LeClerc went out in Q1.

    LeClerc to come through the field from 16th and take out Vettel.
    Hamilton and Bottas to cruise off into the distance for another 1-2.

    I hope someone can keep Merc honest come the race but I can’t see it.

    Ironically, wasn’t it Vettel that bumped LeClerc into the bottom 5 in Q3? What stopped LeClerc getting out again?

    Premier Icon bruneep
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    Im guessing Ferrari thought they’d done enough for LeClerc to get though.

    wiggles
    Member

    They miscalculated and thought his lap was enough apparently.

    Was watching it on the sky app on a tablet that is scabbed off the inlaws account (to tight to pay for it myself) and an ad break came on during the last few minutes (thought it was strange) then after the ads the football was on?! So I missed Hamilton’s lap and switched back over just in time to see him getting out the car

    Premier Icon slowoldman
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    Well the race might be a procession but you have to admit watching an F1 car round Monaco is pretty exciting.

    jimster01
    Member

    Just don’t understand Ferrari’s reasoning with regards to LeClerc, the set the quickest time in FP3, said to the team “we need to go out again”. And the statistician just ignored him. Almost as though they want him to fail.

    hols2
    Member

    Apparently, the statistical model didn’t include the other drivers trying really hard when elimination loomed.

    Any chance of rain during the race? I’m getting conflicting reports depending on where I look.

    Monaco is up there with Melbourne for the borefest factor but I’m hoping the weather might spice things up a bit.

    Klunk
    Member
    Premier Icon crazy-legs
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    Apparently, the statistical model didn’t include the other drivers trying really hard when elimination loomed.

    Worst. Statistical. Model. Ever.

    Premier Icon daviek
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    Never been a fan of Monaco, I remember years ago (i think Mika Salo in a tyrrell?) Loosing a part of his front wing and staying out as he would have lost more time stopping during a wet Monaco race.
    I only really try and watch Spa and Suzuka these days.

    I’m the opposite daviek – I love Monaco. I just love to see the cars being driven so close to the edge. The slow motion shots of them skimming the barriers are fantastic.

    Even a dull race can turn with one mis-judged corner.

    hols2
    Member

    I think Monaco would be much more exciting as a different format. The race itself is usually boring because overtaking is virtually impossible so the leader can just cruise along and conserve his tyres, but seeing an F1 car being driven flat out is exciting.

    Instead of having all the cars on track at the same time, use a flying lap elimination format. Each driver would have three timed laps (plus an untimed warmup and cool down lap). Cars would be released onto the circuit one at a time, one lap apart, so there’d be three cars on flying laps at any given time. After the first session, the slowest four drivers (totaled over three laps) would be eliminated and the surviving sixteen would repeat, with another four eliminated, and so on until there were just four left fighting for the win. This way, drivers would have to push flat out on every single lap, so there would probably be plenty of cars stacked into the walls and a good chance of an upset by top drivers in a lower-ranked team.

    Will never happen, of course, but I think something like that would be much more exciting than a bunch of cars cruising around line astern because it’s impossible to pass anyone.

    Yep – dull as hell! 🙂

    Premier Icon Pook
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    I was screaming “SLOW DOWN CHARLES!!”

    Gutted he’s retired

    Premier Icon Pook
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    Come on Lewis!!!

    He’s going to need a miracle to win this, his tyres are shagged.

    LeClerc was daft with that puncture, he saw his arse and drove too fast on the in lap.

    Premier Icon Pook
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    monumental drive if he does it

    edit: oof, champions drive that

    Thought it was game over when Max sent one up the inside!

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
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    Niki would have approved of that

    Klunk
    Member

    damn tense that

    Premier Icon convert
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    Hmmmm.

    Listened to that on radio whilst doing something else. It’s an odd kind of race when the winner wins by driving just fast enough to keep the next person on track at bay without really getting close to the potential of the car and someone in 4th in an identical car deliberately drops 2-3 seconds back so that he can make a big enough gap to the person in 3rd to have a go at a fastest lap before rejoining the train, closing back up in a single lap seemingly at will. Whilst impressive to keep the door shut at a muted performance for countless laps it’s no advert for motorsport.

    Premier Icon slackalice
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    @hols2, that’s what’s known as Sprinting, all part of the speed event discipline which includes hillclimbing, tarmac against the clock stuff. Always a wide variety of cars from modified production cars, Caterhams to F1 style single seaters and everything in between, motorbikes too.

    Much much better spectator sport than processional circuit stuff. IMHO of course.

    @hols2, that’s what’s known as Sprinting, all part of the speed event discipline which includes hillclimbing, tarmac against the clock stuff. Always a wide variety of cars from modified production cars, Caterhams to F1 style single seaters and everything in between, motorbikes too.

    Much much better spectator sport than processional circuit stuff. IMHO of course.

    Hmmm – not sure about that. I raced in the ASWMC series for a while many years ago and dragged my wife to quite a few windy circuits. Not sure she’d agree that it was better than F1.

    JP

    Gee-Jay
    Member

    Like Convert I listened rather than watched and actually really enjoyed it, I thought having the commentators explaining more made it much more interesting and tense, quite what it would have been like watching the procession I’m not sure that would have been as good.

    Lewis being a drama queen (if that’s an allowed expression) about tyres was a bit of a bore but he’s done it before and no doubt will again.

    Premier Icon Bez
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    Shades of ‘92 there.

    The race did at least highlight one of the feathers in Monaco’s cap: teams and drivers have to roll the dice. Red Bull releasing Verstappen, Leclerc throwing it into Rascasse… and to be honest I’m surprised the C4 team were so hard on Leclerc. It was the team that had put him down in 15th, what was he supposed to do but go for it? It’s a fine line at Monaco between hero and zero… Leclerc on Hulkenberg got unlucky, Verstappen on Hamilton didn’t, it’s a capricious venue.

    Had to chuckle at the post-race observation that Hamilton is now two points behind Ferrari 🙂

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