[Closed] Expander sprockets and 1x for the average rider...

Fashion innit.

Maybe they were riders who can manage 1x10 on their home trails - just not on trips to Wales?

I was OK with it when I lived in Herts but hills go on too long now I'm oop north. So I'm on 2x10.

Primary reason for me to change would be chain security BTW.

Fair enough point about local trails. Is a N-W ring really more secure than a double with front mech (bash-ring) and lower roller?

Is a N-W ring really more secure than a double with front mech

Nothing to do with chain security for me. It's simplicity of setup and maintenance.

As for the riders pushing up, maybe they'd been out for hours already? Maybe they just fancied a push? Did it spoil your ride in anyway? If not, let others do as they please.

He didn't say anything like that, nor did he say he accosted them to ask why, he did let them "do as they please".

I agree with him, I don't quite get why you'd handicap yourself, so if the answer is that they're happy to walk in exchange for improved chain retention, and/or they're riding somewhere different to 99% of the time, then so be it. Question answered. Different mindsets is all.

It's simplicity of setup and maintenance.

Seriously,it's an easy to fit & then forget about for years item.... the one on my Anthem has done well over 10,000 miles & is still going strong...

depends mine is perfectly fine for local trails [ without an extender] but I would not take it to proper mountains and expect to climb them

if i only had one bike it would not be a 1 x set up

If they had a double; I'm sure they could have been riding as well as having a closer spread of gears.

i haven't been to wales to a couple of years but i often saw people walking with triples.

I did let them do as they please, hence asking the question on an online MTB forum rather than getting in their face on what was a nice weekend to be on a bike 🙄

I've got 1x10 (non extender) on the fat bike, can't say it hasn't been bloody hard at times but I've just had to get fitter to use it, hoping it'll pay off on a normal bike when the trails dry out

i used to walk up cwmcarn climb loads on my 2x and 3x setups

fitter these days so i can manage it on my 1x, with an expander

I dunno where that fits in with the OPs ideas of what i should ride where

but for me its definitely a simplicty thing, and cheapest way to shed a pound in weight of a bike, maybe not so much at surfaced trail like cwmcarn but its also one less place for mud to collect as well
oh and its less likely to loose the chain on descents

so theres actually loads of good reasons and if it means an extra 5 minute of pushing up a really boring climb, wahey!

a pound in weight of a bike

Its swapping weight from the middle of the bike to the rear wheel generally ...unless you use an XTR cassette

The good news, is that no one is (YET) forcing you to go 1by!

I've been 1by for a couple of years now, and after a lot of miles, including long days in the Alps, and Wales/Peaks etc, i can't think of a single hill i've pedaled up when 2by/3by that i haven't got up when 1by.

What 1by does bring is:

1) simpler riding imo, loosing the front shifter, and having just 10 gears makes gear choice easy, particularly without having to think about "cross shifting etc". Just push the lever to go up, pull to go down. I know this sounds stupid, but on trails where you always seemed to be "between front rings" this is a real benefit.

2) Less complexity. 1 shifter and cable, means the de-rigure dropper remote can now sit in the right place

3) Allows better design of the bike, in the crucial seatpost/chainstay/crank area. This area takes massive loads on an MTB, and keeping short chain stays (esp with the bigger wheels) is important to keep the bike feeling chuckable) Without having to get in a front shifter and extra rings, bearings can be bigger, geometery more optimised, frame can be stiffer

4) More robust. Half as many moving parts, and parts that used to get absolutely covered in s**t thrown forwards off the rear tyre.

5) Chain security / robustness. Brilliant chain retention, built in "bash" protection for your front chain ring (as the chain is always round it!)

6) Lower mass. Ok, it's a small factor, but it all adds up, use the mass "saved" to put on some chunkier tyres instead!

7) None, or a tiny reduction in overall gear spread with a range extending sprocket. Depending on your budget, the loss of gear range over 2by/3by is now tiny. Chances are, if you can't get up something with 1by, you also couldn't have got up it with more gears!

8) "Shorter" rear mech is definitely less vulnerable to damage, as it sits higher into the bike than the long cage version required to take up all the slack in a 3ring system

Ad finally, how do you know those people walking up with 1by didn't also walk up last week when they still had 2by on their bike???

(it ain't about the bike 😉

I dunno where that fits in with the OPs ideas of what i should ride where

I don't see him saying who should ride where, he's asked a question.

Some weirdly defensive people here.

You have either a flyweight expander or the worlds heaviest front shifter?
Its swapping weight from the middle of the bike to the rear wheel generally ...unless you use an XTR cassette

The cassette is largely net neutral, as the expander sprocket is alu versus a steel sprocket taken out. So you've got the weight of a front mech (SLX is c150g), two chainrings (25g and 80g say), shifter (SLX - 142g including cable inner), a bit of cable outer (say 30g), tiny bit of chain, call it 10g.

That's 437g, so 0.97lbs. Think that's close enough.

Like many "improvements" it not a huge deal for many.

I'm putting it on my fatty for clearance and lack of front mech faffing.

My bike has 1x10 on it and I've been able to ride up everything I could ride up with my old bikes 3x8. I only really lost 1 1/2 gears from each end, so it's not much of a change. The only bits I walk are the bits that I walked with 3x8 too.

I don't really see the point of a double, when you can have a triple. You can get more range, and the only extra thing is the outer ring.
When I bought the new bike it had the option of 1x10 or 2x10, so I went 1x10. If 3x10 was an option, it would've been a harder decision.

My old hybrid had something like this on it. Not too different from an expander cog, but the jump was crazy. Even when going slower than walking pace in the next gear, switching to the mega range gear nearly through you off because your legs would go from v. low cadence to v. high cadence with one click of a lever.
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I've done it for several reasons.
1: Saves some weight (about 850g in my case)
2: Simpler gearing
3: Less stuff to get full of mud in the winter = easier cleaning, less maintenance
4: More ground clearance
5: Better chain retention than with a front mech
6: I can climb everything I could do 2 x 10 on my expanded 1 x 10
7: Less bar clutter, dropper remote and brake lever on LH side only
8: I wanted to. Can always go back if I feel the need..

Maybe it was the 6" travel bikes 🙄

I've 1x10 (with expander cog) on my 29er HT. I lost two gears at either end of the range when compared with a 3x setup - I rarely used the lowest ratio anyway. As others have said, it's a simpler system: just up or down.

Downsides? It was hard work at first especially since I happened to get on some pretty steep climbs. It's got easier as I've got fitter.

I don't think I'd go back to a 2x or 3x system so it probably suits me.

Surprised it weighs that amount and that the extender is neutral

Cassette must weigh more amd a thick thin] but it will be negligible

Retracts comment

Not had much of an issue with mine. But fitness is an issue but sometimes it's social to push and bullshit when you want to stretch your legs between decent.

Though honestly uplift solves all the issues

All the above reasons for me, I hate front mechs ant the noise they make. Stealth granny ring for emergencies.

Hope TRex weighs 41g, not sure what the 17T weighs but lets say half that.
Hope Retainer ring weighs 41g for the 30T so lets say 45g for the 32T. A Shimano XT 32T chainring weighs 40g (the 42T weighs 80g and the 22T weighs 20g)
Deore XT front mech weighs 140g
Shifter weighs c. 125g

So the difference is (20 - 41) + ((20 + 40 + 80) - 45) + 140 + 125 = 341g

There's the cable and outer to consider but it's not going to be huge.

I cut 1lb from the gubbins I took off (Deore mech and shifter plus cables). Didn't have an expander ring fitted but I have bought one now just to try it.

Having got bikes with front derallieurs and one set up 1x9 I much prefer a less spread of gears but could do with a better crawler gear to winch up the stuff that 1x9 won't enable me to do....and as soon as the 1x9 cassette and chain are dead I will be swapping out the rear shifter/mech for a 1x10 set up with an expander. It's ideal for muddy riding if your knees or fitness can't take SS set up! Greater chainring clearance on techy climbs, logs etc, easier and cheaper maintenance and post ride cleaning/lubing, quieter running...NW and no clutch mech only derailed chain once when riding with a twig between chain and front ring.
As far as people pushing their bikes , don't worry about it were not all obsessed with being to ride everything/all day and the fact of it is that that bike they were using maybe specifically set up for descending.....and as for the riders ability they make not look like XC whippets but believe it or not us big blokes tend to be pretty strong when it comes to lifting heavy weights and static strength!

I'm running 32t x 11-40t rear on my Alpine Five 29er. I've barely lost anything gearing wise.

It's become fashionable to go 1x10, as a lot of enduro bikes are specced off the peg with 1x11. With very good reasons, but it's not for those who are unfit - however, I'd argue that even with a triple there'd be lots pushing on climbs.

There's nothing I could ride on a triple or double that I can't ride on a single. This is Tweed Valley riding, so a good mix of long, steep and undulating.

As everyone's said, it's just such less faff overall. When riding it's just once shifter, and less cables kicking around, when it comes to changing the drivetrain it's a little less to mess about with too - less theading of the chain, and only a single ring to change.

Noise is significantly quieter, and retention of the chain is miles up.

If you're not fit, then I can see the point in running something like a 22t at he front to give you more range. But if you ride all the time, then it's just bags simpler.

I've no idea if dropping to 1x10 makes you slower going uphill, but who really cares about that if you're not XC racing? Which most aren't.

I find I use more of my gears with 1x10 too. I used to nearly always double change, but now I'm more likely to just shift one gear at a time.

1x10 seems to have made me faster going up hill. I guess it's because I can't go into an easier gear.

I just wanted my Reverb remote to look better. Don't judge me.

A lot of people feel no need at all to keep pedalling on their bikes up hills. Pushing is sociable and chilled and it's about the downs anyway. This thread could equally habe been "I saw a lot of people with short stems pushing their bikes", or "I saw a lot of people with flat pedals pushing their bikes" and so on.

I ditched outer & granny rings years ago, as I never used them. Not because I'm some sort of climbing god either, far from it in fact; but I hated having kit on the bike that I never used. Tried doubles but hated the gap between ratios, always seemed to run out of gears at the wrong time. (Down to my riding style probably). I've never been a sit & spin sort of rider anyway, much prefer to be out of the saddle when climbing. If it got [i]that[/i] steep or loose I'd happily be off & pushing. Back then it was the bloomin expensive Pauls device or some lash up or another, to keep the chain on. Decent 11-36 cassettes were a very welcome development though.
On some bouncy full suspension bike I can see how the standing climbing can be a pain though, without a decent lockout. My main bike has been a singlespeed for a good few years.
I've just had a new FS delivered & whipped the double off straight away. Will see how it pans out, but the 1x10 feels ok.

I'm running 32t x 11-40t rear on my Alpine Five 29er. I've barely lost anything gearing wise.

Interesting, as I'm on a similar kinda bike and could do this setup very cheap.

Were you on 2x10 before? How would you class your fitness?

I totally get why people might not want to go 1x10, but to say the weight savings aren't significant is a bit daft.
Try saving 300-400g anywhere else and you either have to make big compromises (e.g. tyres) or spend a lot of money.

I get the point that someone might not care too much about saving that weight on their own bike, but don't underestimate the number of man-hours that have gone into producing amazing bikes and components, that are still an acceptable weight.

At a rough estimate my bike cost £2/gramme, to cut the weight would cost serious money and I don't think I'd get a significantly better bike for that outlay.

As an example, my handlebars cost £40 and weigh 370g, go to the carbon version and they cost £110 and weigh 210g. Would I notice the difference or think/feel they were better? I doubt it.

I don't have Easton wheels but their Alloy Haven wheels are 1780g for £750 and the carbon version of the same wheelset is £1750 for 1590g. Yes that's an extra one thousand pounds to save 200 grammes. My Hope wheels are £340 for a weight of 1750g so to save that 200g I'd actually be adding nearer to £1400 for the privilege.

At a rough estimate my bike cost £2/gramme, to cut the weight would cost serious money and I don't think I'd get a significantly better bike for that outlay.

You sure about that 😕

So your 10kg bike cost £20,000?

Even 2g/£ is still quite a bit...

£1/g is the oft quoted threshold for common sense weight savings, so going single ring is certainly a cheap saving, particularly if it doesn't bring performance compromises for you.

Interesting, as I'm on a similar kinda bike and could do this setup very cheap.

Were you on 2x10 before? How would you class your fitness?

I've been on 2x10 for a couple of years, and triples before that, plus been on 1x9 and (no one knows why) singlespeed.

I'm fitter than your average rider 😉 My missus is also fitter than your average male rider, and runs a 30t with 11-42t without any problems.

I've swapping down to a 30t up front, to just not have to smash up climbs - I find that on the 32t I may have to get off pedalling up to the res on the Golfie, with the 30t I really don't have any worries.

You sure about that

Doh!

Got the figures the wrong way round - should be 5g/£1

1x10 with a clutch mech and NW chainring (no chain retention) means no dropped chains for me in about 10 months. I was often dropping chains with 2x9 until I put a Blacksire thing on.

Im always using my Reverb and now its in a better position (as good as can be with Shimano brakes)

No more chainring gouges in my leg.

I have pushed up two or 3 climbs which Id been able to struggle up in the granny, but I can live with that.

Its alot quieter on bmupy ground, like alot alot.

Not snapped 1 chain (spoke to soon Shirley) but snapped a few with front mech mongo panic shifting.

Cheers Rickon. I'd also say I was fitter than average but knowing the climb you mean it sounds like 32t with 11-40 would still be a bit harder than my dodgy knees would like.

🙂

How does everyone find it when going the other way? When you are on a few of miles of flat road/railway for instance? (Sections where I usually just put mine into the big ring)

I'm still on a triple by the way! Next time I am out I think I will try staying in the middle ring as I guess that is what will be closest to a 1x

The pub run at end of night rides is a spin out. 😉

I'm trying it out of interest and because my 2x9 (22/36 and 11/34 cassette) set up was nearly worn out. It's tidied the bars up a bit and in particular allows the reverb remote to sit more comfortably. With a One-Up 42t ring and 32t chain ring I think I have lost less than a full gear off one end of the range and a bit more than one gear off the other. Seems to be manageable on Dartmoor. Dropped a small amount of weight although I hadn't thought of it as much as a 1lb.

However, I've never really had much issue with dropped chains, and I quite like the panic mode of a front ring downshift which is obviously not possible now. Time will tell if I stick with it or just go 2x10.

Depending on your choice of ring size you might have to accept your top speed on the road is a bit slower. Only you will know if this is an acceptable draw back. I happily run a 36t on the front so I don't spin out until I'm on a descent hill and my mph is way into the 30's.

@markshires Some say they spin out too easily but by the time I get to that sort of speed (about 30mph at 115rpm) I'm happy to freewheel 8)

[i]edit[/i] I'm on a 29er with 30T front and 11-40T rear. There's a calculator here - http://www.machars.net/bikecalc.htm to work it all out.

Cheers whitestone.

Doesn't sound like it will be a problem then. I think it is something that I may have to consider myself.

Spinning out is not a problem.

Actually I found with a 36t chainring on 26" wheels it was undergeared for riding to the trails on the road. Descents are fine, freewheeling isn't a problem, it was long fast sections of road, much above 22ish mph got very spinny, enough to be a pain! Spinning out isnt the specific issue.

32t chainring on 29" wheels and a 10t sprocket have sorted that.

I've got a 1x10 to make me climb harder, saving weight is much easier and far cheaper by have by a dump imho.

When I the thread title 1x I thoughT it was about single speeds but no. Given I ride a single speed alot and up some very steep climbs 11 is best.

I'm far from the average rider. I'm chunky to say the least, and get over everything with 1x I could with 3x. if I'm spinning 22x36 up a hill I might as well walk, it's that slow.

if I'm spinning 22x36 up a hill I might as well walk, it's that slow.

While this may be true i absolutely hate getting off the bike once on a ride...walking with the bike is not pleasant as its not a natural 'walk' as you're leaning to one side pushing a 30lb full susser up a hill!....crap.

...secondly i get a perverse satisfaction from cleaning all the climbs on a ride even if it means grinding the lowest gear at slower than walking pace.

Never dropped the chain on a 2x10 since i've been back into MTBing over the last 5 years....i had a poorly setup 1x9 bike that would wrap the chain around the bottom bracket with alarming regularity....and thats the crux of the matter, it comes down to how well set up your system is whether its a 1x or 2x or even 3x....

Each to his own but having changed to Sram 1x11 courtesy of a new bike I can honestly say whatever tiny bit of range I have lost I genuinely cannot notice, either uphill or downhill. What I do love though is the ultra secure chain, near silent operation and Sram matchmaker clamps meaning my Reverb remote is in the perfect place. I don't particularly care about the weight but the whole system works fantastically well.

I went 1x because it was easier than learning how to set up a front mech (I still me maintain they work by magic). That any my bike at the time was a not-so-lovely BB386 crank with a 26/42 chainring combination, I found I was cross chaining in races and when I did try to shift up/down on the front I would drop the chain completely, so decided to go to 1x instead, because it was just simpler.

I went 1x because it was easier than learning how to set up a front mech

I suppose the ability to set up a front mech will soon become one of those forgotten skills. Like setting up V-brakes and riding fast without the motivation of Strava.