EU Referendum – are you in or out?

Where are the nurses going to come from? this is a real issue

where did they come from before, I wonder?

I met someone who worked in the NHS that reckoned the quality of staff went down once it had been diluted by EU staff compared to the previous sources of staff…

And is is not racist to discriminated against those from outside the EU? At least brexit will put everything on a level playing field for all immigration. What is so special about people from the EU?

No its blindingly obvious folk care for a myriad of reasons not least because they have just stated them.

Perhaps if you’d paid attention at primary school you’d know that.
Take a long look at yourself…

I think you could have only made that more ironic if you had offered to meet him on the playground for a fight

is is not racist to discriminated against those from outside the EU?

Only in the “sense” its racist to give someone from scotland more freedom than someone from Peru. What is so special about Scotland. Why can someone from Yorkshire move to Kent? is that not racist as well?

I do like the I want to stop all immigrants coming here so I am fairer and less racist line of argument

Its a great insight into the average Brexiies voters critical faculties

Just look at the contents of TTIP for one thing – OK it isn’t going to get through,

dont worry the tories will be signing us up to something similar once free of the ‘shackles’ of the EU

result!

dont worry the tories will be signing us up to something similar once free of the ‘shackles’ of the EU

result!

the thing is if the tories overstep the mark too much they will just get voted out, the EU is so entrenched that that would be virtually impossible.

I take it that’s a joke ?

on us I suspect.

Troll of the day, well done.

-double post-

It’s not over just yet
Article 50 Challenge

TurnerGuy – Member

And is is not racist to discriminated against those from outside the EU?

Correct.

it’s a particularly pathetic argument this, one beloved of UKIP though and I can see why it gets traction. But it amounts to “some people get a better deal than others. We will ensure that everyone gets an equally bad deal”. EU freedom of movement was not costing anyone from the ROW anything in terms of movement or opportunity. Taking it away will not improve it for anyone else.

it’s a particularly pathetic argument this

in your opinion, I’ve seen people from outside the EU use it as well.

And?

It’s not over just yet
Article 50 Challenge

Parliament voted for it.

from the link

Immediately after the Supreme Court ruled that no decision had been made – the government took the “decision” as read. Speaking about the rushed Brexit Bill, David Davis could not have been clearer that it was nothing to do with Leave or Remain. He said, that it was: “not a Bill about whether the UK should leave the European Union or, indeed, about how it should do so; it is simply about Parliament empowering the Government to implement a decision already made—a point of no return already passed.”

On this issue, Professor Grayling says: “We feel that the difference between the asking Parliament to make the actual decision and asking Parliament for permission to notify a decision already made is not technical, but fundamental”

The case is based on triggering A50 being “unconstitutional”.

I would think, since Parliament voted for it, that’s not going to fly. Seems a tree that will bear no fruit to me.

The referendum happened and Article 50 happened. I’d love it to be stopped, and I don’t think that’s impossible, but I can’t see this being the way.

I’d be happy if you and they are right though.

TTIP is an excellent example of why having the UK within the EU is good for British citizens.
Westminster supported TTIP even after the EU sidelined it.

Happy trolling

In fact we were worse 10 years ago

So why have we improved relatively? Might it possibly because we are not so constrained in our economic policy?

would naturally look higher in Italy because a larger percentage of that group would naturally be in education.

I did a broadbrush analysis of the total of people in tertiary education over the population as a whole, we are at a similiar percentage to Germany and France (between 3.58% and 3.65%), Spain is a bit higher (4,23%) and Italy (3.01%) is an equivalent amount lower. Obviously you would need to look at demographics to get a more accurate picture.

So why have we improved relatively?

Is it because of the Eu or do they just get the blame for bad things and we take the credit for good things?

Just look at the contents of TTIP for one thing – OK it isn’t going to get through, but the fact that they drafted it with that content

Not this again.

I can’t understand why you would cite the content of TTIP, a deal that the UK gov was massively in favour of but the EU refused to sign, as an example of how terrible the EU is.

Because reason has left the building.

I can’t understand why you would cite the content of TTIP, a deal that the UK gov was massively in favour of but the EU refused to sign, as an example of how terrible the EU is.

Some members of the EU refused, but it was the EU itself that came up with it:

Yet when I asked the trade commissioner how she could continue her persistent promotion of the deal in the face of such massive public opposition, her response came back icy cold: “I do not take my mandate from the European people.”

So who does Cecilia Malmström take her mandate from? Officially, EU commissioners are supposed to follow the elected governments of Europe. Yet the European Commission is carrying on the TTIP negotiations behind closed doors without the proper involvement European governments, let alone MPs or members of the public. British civil servants have admitted to us that they have been kept in the dark throughout the TTIP talks, and that this makes their job impossible.

In reality, as a new report from War on Want has just revealed, Malmström receives her orders directly from the corporate lobbyists that swarm around Brussels. The European Commission makes no secret of the fact that it takes its steer from industry lobbies such as BusinessEurope and the European Services Forum, much as a secretary takes down dictation. It’s no wonder that the TTIP negotiations are set to serve corporate interests rather than public needs.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/i-didn-t-think-ttip-could-get-any-scarier-but-then-i-spoke-to-the-eu-official-in-charge-of-it-a6690591.html

Is it because of the Eu or do they just get the blame for bad things and we take the credit for good things?

As it is a comparison with other EU countries, it is probably smart to look for a differentiating factor rather than a common one.

it was the EU itself that came up with it

That’s not the way negotiations work. The US made proposals and the EU offered counterproposals.

The most controversial stuff regarding ISDS, and changes to environmental, consumer protection and public health standards came from the US proposals and were opposed by the EU.

If it was up to the UK alone we’d have signed it already.

If it was up to the UK alone we’d have signed it already.

This.

Its pretty dumb for somebody to be using this argument against the EU, when the UK wanted to sign up to it.

To quote Germany’s Economy Minister, Sigmar Gabriel back in August 2016:

“The negotiations with the USA have de facto failed because we Europeans did not want to subject ourselves to American demands,”

Its rather unedifying watching him try I feel embarrassed for him.

I’ve spent the week sampling our European Union via an Erasmus project.

Firstly it reminded me of what we stand to lose in terms of friendship, collaboration, learning, trade and opportunities. Massive. This project is worth £80k to my organisation, and we have another two just starting. The outcomes and knowledge we have shared this week will help my employer really take the lead nationally in a specific area, worth even more in trade for future years and benefit to young children across the UK – to the benefit of all UK society.

It also reminded me of the EU bureaucracy. Some of our partners had brought cash to pay for thier costs of the week long event, as they claim costs to EU individually rather than a block grant. That said, there’s a really, really good reason why they ask have thier own travel and costs allowance to attend training – it’s just odd knowing EU are happy for cash to be used for a total bill in the thousands.

Overall, this week has highlighted the benefit of the EU membership to me. Can we please change our mind?

Anyway, next meeting is Estonia and I’m looking forward to trying to hire a bike and head into the forest on the spare day I have over there…

As it is a comparison with other EU countries, it is probably smart to look for a differentiating factor rather than a common one.

You were arguing it was the EUs fault re unemployment and not nation states and Kimbers and others challenged you on this

Now you seem to be accepting its nothing to do with the EU but the fault of nation states – which was the point of my statement.

The referendum happened and Article 50 happened.

sshh, there are some sensitive folk around

Best not to mention the direct link between € and unemployment esp on a Friday evening

You were arguing it was the EUs fault re unemployment and not nation states and Kimbers and others challenged you on this
Now you seem to be accepting its nothing to do with the EU but the fault of nation states – which was the point of my statement.

Neither, actually, my argument is that it is down to the Euro, which doesn’t apply to certain EU states and is therefore a differentiating factor.

Kimbers just went off on a sidetrack backed by misleading data – plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose

Oh eck * we are in trouble now

(Amusingly autocorrects to ECJ 😉 )

Oh eck * we are in trouble now

Not really I’m off to the pub in a minute.

Already there !!

my argument

Just as I leave, I should say it is hardly my argument, it is one widely made by far better educated people than me from all sides of the political spectrum and all sides of the Brexit debate.

Neither, actually, my argument is that it is down to the Euro, which doesn’t apply to certain EU states and is therefore a differentiating factor.

Indeed – but someone on here was making out that the Euro was a reason we have to leave the EU!

Research paper by City University of London identified a network of 13,493 bots were used to tweet Pro Leave messages in the run up to the referendum.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/a-suspected-network-of-13000-twitter-bots-pumped-out-pro

Kimbers just went off on a sidetrack backed by misleading data

the data to which you said

I take your point,

That misleading data?

Its no wonder I am confused.

As for the Euro I only hope that there is a point in time when folk stop predicting its demise

ah yes , i remember the Pesetas and La lira being such strong currencies ( no need to devaluate them every other year) , and the low numbers of people unemployed in Spain and Italy ………

As for the Euro I only hope that there is a point in time when folk stop predicting its demise

Reminds me of the colleague in seasonal forecasting who predicted 9 of the last 3 El Ninos.

Kimbers just went off on a sidetrack backed by misleading data – plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose

Already there !!

Strange. When I am in the pub I tend to talk to my real friends, not my internet chums. Tell us where you’re at and someone might be able to swing over and cheer you up.