EU Referendum – are you in or out?

We could have had a softer May Brexit but it was blocked by Remainer MPs on all sides and the ERG, setting off the course of events that leads us to where we are now.The country now faces a Boris Brexit which could be harder than practically anyone wants, however the size of his majority may mean that he is not depenedent on the ERG and so may push for a softer Brexit after all.Fingers crossed for the latter.

This brings us back to the fact that there’s no way to win Brexit.

– Remainers unhappy with any form of Brexit

– Leavers unhappy with any form of Brexit that isn’t precisely what they imagined it to be: Hard, Soft, Norway, keep/ditch CU, block all/some/none immigration etc, etc….

verses

This brings us back to the fact that there’s no way to win Brexit.

Planet you on? It’s been won. Boris brexit won, what ever the heck that it, he’s just been given the authority of a blank page.

It matters no more if remainers/leavers etc are happy, long as he keeps tories happy.

It matters no more if remainers/leavers etc are happy, long as he keeps tories happy.

Which, I think, was verses’ point. Any form of brexit is simultaneously too brexity for some of the Tories and not brexity enough for others.

“Get brexit done,” **** me. Three years down the line, umpteen court cases and general elections, and god knows how many billions of pounds later, we still haven’t even made up our minds what we want. We invoked A50 without a clue and in six weeks time we’re almost certainly going to be entering the Transition Phase still without a clue.

The tories will be united behind whatever Boris wants to do. This GE win gives him absolute authority.

Having calmed down a bit I’m now thinking that if we are going to leave the EU and suffer the consequences….I’m glad BJ and the Tories are going to be the ones accountable.

Even they can’t blame Labour for the **** storm that’s going to ensue in the years to come.

Still a bit stunned that many people see the way to reverse the years of Tory dismantling of society is to vote them in again.

All feels very 1980’s again.

Hope so. I loved the 80s.

The music was better. Sort of.😁

Planet you on? It’s been won. Boris brexit won, what ever the heck that it, he’s just been given the authority of a blank page.

I’m on the planet that can see we’re still a hugely divided nation whichever side of the remain/leave debate you’re on.

You can please some of the people some of the time, etc etc…

The music was better. Sort of.😁

And hair. I had it on the top of my head. Loads of it.

I’m on the planet that can see we’re still a hugely divided nation whichever side of the remain/leave debate you’re on.

One half of that division is about to inflict whatever form of Brexit they want, and there’s nothing the other half can do.

Game over

Yes, the game looks to be over, but I still think there’s few/no winners.

verses

I’m on the planet that can see we’re still a hugely divided nation whichever side of the remain/leave debate you’re on.

Nations are always divided. This one nation come together stuff is nonsense.

Is it the end of this thread?

Will those here who have whinged and moaned for the last 3 years finally accept they lost .. twice!

or will they call for a Peoples Vote on the General Election result?

As Brexit won’t be done for… say a decade? This thread still has legs.

Worth keeping it alive for all the “we told you so” moments over those years too.😄

Best park this thread for 18 months and see how much we’ve had to beg for an extension – and how much we’ve been given, by then. Cos there’s no way on this planet progress on a trade deal will be anywhere further than beyond preliminary discussions by then. We woz once at the top table. We’ll be begging for crumbs in a year’s time.

Even they can’t blame Labour for the **** storm that’s going to ensue in the years to come.

binners will still blame Corbyn and Seamus 😉

mooman

Member
Is it the end of this thread?

Will those here who have whinged and moaned for the last 3 years finally accept they lost .. twice!

or will they call for a Peoples Vote on the General Election result?

Nothing like being magnanimous in victory…

Will those here who have whinged and moaned for the last 3 years finally accept they lost .. twice!

No. But expect a bucket load of Itoldyouso it about 2 years.

Nah this thread is going to run and run, it fact it’s only just started. The next 12 months is going to be mental, and Johnson is gonna pivot like a three legged pig.

Ask Boris, it’s all him now.

No, these things could come from the EU unilaterally or come out of the negotiations.

Will those here who have whinged and moaned for the last 3 years finally accept they lost

Is that what you think this is about? We’re just sore losers? No wonder you’re so cynical.

We’re upset that our rights have been stripped, our kids’ futures have been jepoardised, our worlds have been shrunk, and our country is probably going to decline for a decade or two. We will continue to be upset about this as long as it continues to be the case!

And we’ll come here to discuss the inevitable string of **** ups as the EU do us over in a men v boys sort of way.

A working and mature democracy can change its mind and reverse decisions. The campaign to rejoin has just started!

Our young people deserve the opportunities we were afforded in our youth. We’ll be going back with all the trimmings of Schengen, Euro and anything else that happens between then and now.

We also need to change our voting system 43.6% of votes cast gave a majority government, 43.8% gave a minority opposition. If half the votes don’t count the system is not fit for purpose and needs changing to a better model.

Big remain supporter here. But surely after last night we have to acknowledge the consensus is to leave. Breaks my heart how the turkeys vote for christmas but gobble gobble.

mooman

Member

Is it the end of this thread?

Will those here who have whinged and moaned for the last 3 years finally accept they lost .. twice!

or will they call for a Peoples Vote on the General Election result?

I think that we can finally admit that there is a majority of morons in this country. Whether we actually leave still remains to be seen.

JP

But surely after last night we have to acknowledge the consensus is to leave.

How so? A pro-Brexit party is forming the government, that isn’t the same thing at all.

molgrips

Subscriber
Ask Boris, it’s all him now.

No, these things could come from the EU unilaterally or come out of the negotiations.

Yip, but whatever brexit turns out to be, it is happening, it’s boris’s vision.

You’re basically asking, will there be free movement, unlikely..looks like I’ll be getting an irish passport after all.

kelvin

Subscriber
But surely after last night we have to acknowledge the consensus is to leave.

How so? A pro-Brexit party is forming the government, that isn’t the same thing at all.

I’d put that an other way, surely you can acknowledge that the remain side was routed.

Will those here who have whinged and moaned for the last 3 years finally accept they lost .. twice!

Think history will show we all lost but hey rejoice your(hollow) victory

I’d put that an other way, surely you can acknowledge that the remain side was routed.

Oh, completely. But we have no idea if more than half the voters still think we should leave. That would require a vote asking them that.

kelvin

Subscriber
I’d put that an other way, surely you can acknowledge that the remain side was routed.

Oh, completely. But we have no idea if more than half the voters still think we should leave. That would require a vote asking them that.

It would, but the current government isn’t and won’t be minded to ask.

Yes, Br3xit is happening, it was the claim that we know there is a consensus that it should that I was questioning.

There’s a consensus under the parliamentary system, the only ones with power, so aye there is a consensus.

What people think no longer really matters in relation to getting the withdrawal agreement finished. Which will be celebrated as “Brexit got done”.

The things that come after that, I guess there room for public opinion to sway some things, to an extent, as they get brought up in the press. But I think most of it will lie in the hands of lawyers and Tory policy as it develops though.

Of course Brexit will happen now. The question is what sort. A country with a 5% lower GDP negotiating with three powerhouses each of over 300m people, but we hold all the cards, apparently. Well we want the German cars anyway and they need us…

Nobody will be satisfied. That is my one certain prediction. It wont be hard enough for the ERG or soft enough for remain. My less certain prediction is that economic reality will out in the end and a cushioned soft landing of BRINO will result. The conservatives know they have to sustain GDP to pay for the services the country expects and they have promised to restore in the coming post-austerity era.

And I get a works trip to Amsterdam instead of Canary Wharf.

TiRed

Nobody will be satisfied.

You’ll only find that out next election tbh.

Think history will show we all lost but hey rejoice your(hollow) victory

And if that view is carried into the next election then the tories will be handed a get out of jail free pass as they easily be able to say it failed because the remain side frustrated it. The only option is to jump on board and try to make it work. If it fails it needs to be a collective failure, and equally if a success, then a collective success.

I actually think Johnson has given himself a big problem. The practicalities and realities of the economics will drag him towards a softer brexit. When that happens the ERG will kick off, and Farage will be back on the scene. It won’t be long before the tories are fighting with each other again.

The only option is to jump on board and try to make it work.

What exactly does that mean because it sounds like the old meaningless toss them used to come out with? Give us some specifics.
I can’t jump on board a change, I have no say in it and cannot influence or adapt, I just get whatever’s coming with not much if anything I can do to mitigate the results. Do I go around saying brexit’s great, please enlighten us.

My fear about Brexit is not that it’s happening, but that it is being done at the behest of foreign money and being handled by incompetents here who do not yet seem to have realised that we are no longer in an equal negotiating position, but very much the weaker party.

Predators eat the beast that strays from the herd.

I was and still am slightly euro-sceptic, but always figured the benefits outweighed the negatives. Now that we have no choice in the matter, I am fervently hoping I was wrong about that.

We have to accept that England has had a democratic vote and they have endorsed getting Brexit done, so that is what they should have.

Where it leaves the other nations in the UK is the next question.

I don’t see any reason to get behind Boris’ Brexit. I still despise him and what he stands for. Why should I want him to succeed? So he and his successors can shaft us and keep shafting us for decades? Yes we have had a democratic vote that gives him a big majority but we still have something called Her Majesty’s Opposition and I expect it to oppose, robustly – something it has failed to do in recent years.

Bollix to getting behind brexit, but there’s no real point in arguing though, let the car crash tv commence..

CHB

Subscriber

Big remain supporter here. But surely after last night we have to acknowledge the consensus is to leave.

We don’t, no. Boris’s brexit won the election but they still didn’t bring a majority, and all of the same issues still exist- people voted for brexit but even though there’s now a solid brexit on the table they still didn’t universally vote for that one (partly through believing there are options, partly through just going “**** it, let’s get it over with” regardless), and even many of the people who did vote for that brexit and who believe it’ll be delivered, aren’t totally happy with it, they just think it’s the only option they had.

And most importantly, it was sold once again entirely with false information. Every single person who believed in “let’s get brexit done” and “we have to do brexit before we can fix the NHS” and “it’ll be over with and then we can move on”, was lied to just as much as in the referendum. Just that this time, it’s not a swarm of lies from a dozen different sides, it’s all down to the prime minister. And literally none of the persuasive arguments were true (and that was a political position chosen freely)

So nothing has changed at all re concensus, and it never could. But what has changed, is that the brexit side has absolutely won the argument despite that. Concensus never really mattered which is why they didn’t bother to build one.

Only thing there is to do now, is to make sure they get their noses rubbed in it as hard as humanly possible, when they finally “get brexit done” and everyone wakes up the next morning and discovers there’s still years more of it to come, and it’ll be way worse than the ruling party promised.

They’ve now decisively sold the electorate a pup, and they can’t deny that they own it 100%. We can’t fix that any more, all that remains is to make sure the shit sticks to the shits that did it. It’s not a consolation prize, it’s just our part of the next five years of Still Haven’t Got Brexit Done.

I won’t be getting behind it, why would I? It’s still stupid and damaging, and no amount of quietly falling into line will stop it being hugely divisive- I mean, it’s literally a process of division. This new government has no interest at all in reducing that, in fact they’re going to increase it- their idea of reducing division is still to do what they want and to tell everyone else to suck it up, as if beating people into submission is the same as uniting them

There’ll be nothing approaching a concensus until brexit either turns out to be great and it turns out we were wrong, or brexit turns out to be a disaster and everyone but its most rabid fanboys settles down to living with it and dealing with it. That’s what concensus means with brexit, there’s no middle ground and there’s no compromise option. There was never even a brexit that could unite brexiteers never mind remainers.

No doubt Mooman will think stating the obvious is “whinging and moaning”, or maybe “project fear”.

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