EU Referendum – are you in or out?

You guys are still forgetting half the Labour front bench and 100mps have said publicly they will vote against any attempts to delay or stop brexit. Corbyn is as boxed in as May by his own parliamentarians. No other labour leader could do anything different.

If Corbyn comes out for a second referendum he will lose any vote on it – thats clear. Tories would be whipped against it, a few would rebel. Labour would be whipped for it and dozens would rebel and half his front bench would resign including many of the so called moderates.

Bowglie- same reason as he won’t condemn the regime in Venezuela as the oil-rich ‘socialist’ country crumbles into civil war, poverty and starvation.

My enemies enemy is my friend in Corbyn’s simplistic 1970’s worldview.

He’s a useful idiot for Putin, the hard right of the Tory party and all manner of other thoroughly unpleasant entities just through his sheer pig-headed stupidity

I wonder if one of the main problems in Britain is the right wing press, and until someone has the balls to say that they’re only supporting the Tories and Brexit so that their multimillionaire owners can keep avoiding paying tax…and dodge Leveson2.

Unfortunately, I can’t see any high profile opposition MP’s standing up and using parliamentary privelidge to call out the tax dodging bas***ds in the press and Tory party.

He’s a useful idiot for Putin, the hard right of the Tory party and all manner of other thoroughly unpleasant entities just through his sheer pig-headed stupidity

Unfortunately for the country, I think you’re right.  I’ve always had the feeling that he’s just another pig-headed personality cult dictator that’ll have to be dragged kicking and screaming from the leadership.

We wouldn’t have the problem of the likes of the Daily Mail if it wasn’t able to tap into a rich seam of ignorance, prejudice, self-righteousness, stupidity, racism, xenophobia and pettiness.

Unfortunately there is a rich seam of all the above to unite their fellow arseholes. And ultimately, that is what we are talking about here. Arseholes.

Owen Smith on channel 4 news now saying Corbyn is enabling a xenophobic, nativist, racist right-wing Brexit that betrays every single Labour Party value

Bang on!

I hope this marks the beginning of the party membership finally seeing through Corbyn’s Brexiteer stance, his MPs growing a pair and doing something to stop it/him

NO chance of the labour MPs growing a pair – 100 of them are insisting that brexit goes ahead and half the front bench will resign if corbyn supports a second referendum or attempts to stop / delay brexit

If corbyn really wanted a hard brexit would he be pushing for this softest of soft leaves? Its the only position that he can carry most of his MPs along with.

Do you really want to see a labour party split with 100+ mps voting against the labour whiop if Labour propose a second referendum? Make no mistake – thats what would happen.

Its the spineless nincompops that are labour MPs that are the problem here

dammit, its time we got organised and rebelled against this kind of shenanigins

lets go and form a protest queue in the great british tradition

I see Labour are polling really well again today.

Always been suspicious how Corbs used the Stop the War campaign to get rid of Blair, and then they did F*** all to stop the carnage in Syria.

So what was leader of the opposition Corbyn supposed to do in Syria?

I hate to defend the clown but would rather reproach him for not doing things he could do than things he can’t do.

Edit: caught out by the page lag again, this is now water under the bridge.

Again… where are you getting these stats from about who will and won’t rebel/resign?

Jezza talks the talk, but when push comes to shove – every time – he whips his MPs to enable a hard Brexit

hate to say it, but all of you going mental about what is basically a sensible approach to delivering a soft brexit, are basically just pissed off because you’ve finally realised brexit isn’t going to be cancelled. Brexit is happening, get used to it. Whether it’s in no-deal, hard or soft form is still to be seen, but you really need to take your heads out of the sand

You speak absolute sense.

The hysteria on here rather than then pragmatism is bewildering.

I’m looking forward to the tiny centrist breakaway party of Owen Smith and the Yvette ‘vote for more wars’ cooper.

Good luck with that.

Isn’t there another thread about Corbyn specifically if you want to discuss Syria etc not just Brexit

May and her mates must be mighty relieved by the fact that Corbyn personally seems to be taking a large chunk of the blame for the Brexit disaster created and continuously mishandled by the Tories.

half the Labour front bench

Because anyone publicly saying what needs saying about brexit has been kicked off the front bench. The Labour back benches is full of talented MPs ready to take their place in a shadow cabinet.

Corbyn is not in a corner, reluctantly supporting Brexit, he wants Brexit. Hard. Anyone supporting a Soft Brexit, or another vote, has been sidelined by his team. Portraying him as at the mercy of the very people he has chosen to surround himself with, because they won’t question his approach, is grade A bullshit.

At least two thirds of Labour MPs are strongly pro-remain. So where you get 100 of them resigning I’ve no idea

Feel free to enlighten me

Just about everyone outside the inner cabal/front bench think, correctly, that Corbyn is a brexiteer clown, so who’s going to resign?

Just seen on Channel 4 news that Tony Lloyd is shadow Northern Ireland Secretary. Who knew? Hear that? That really is the sound of the bottom of a barrel being scraped. Can’t be long before he runs out of similar minded 70’s relics to support his Brexit stance and surround himself with in his Islington echo chamber.

All his backbenchers think he’s a **** and can’t wait to see the back of him so they can try and drag the party back into the 21st century instead of 1973, and that includes being pro EU instead of being in some Bennite backwater

So back on tpic, May got nothing out of Junker, zilch. Which is exactly what he was mandated by the 27 to give her. The only stuff they’re talking about is non-binding stuff outside the agreement(deal) offered and refused by parliament.

lets go and form a protest queue in the great british tradition

Yes lets. After you.

After you…

No… after you….

binners

Subscriber

Owen Smith on channel 4 news now saying Corbyn is enabling a xenophobic, nativist, racist right-wing Brexit that betrays every single Labour Party value

Someone should remind Owen Smith he tried to bring down Corbyn before, got his ass absolutely whipped, then instantly declared that they were bezzie mates. Still, he’s one step ahead of Chuka Umanna, forever throwing peanuts but too scared to ever get on the stage.

AFAIC Corbyn actually did something very smart here. He’s extended a reasonable offer that May won’t and can’t take, because her own party would eat her. It’s pretty close to what he’s demanded before- but moved enough that it’s a compromise so people can’t reasonably claim any more that he’s refusing to negotiate. And it means that May’s going to back to parliament and insist hers is the only possible deal (again) and can’t be improved (again) while there’s a better proposal right there in front of her that she’s refused and that her own nutters won’t accept.

And when it does go back to the commons, obviously one of the big risks is that people do panic and vote for May’s shitty brexit out of fear of May’s even shittier no-deal brexit. This puts another option on the table other than calling it all off- which means people can vote against May without instantly being put into the “no deal psycho” or “no brexit traitor” groups. Which imo is just 100% positive.

And also he’s given the EU something to be visibily reasonable about at the exact point the ultras are claiming that Europe isn’t listening. They can’t accept it- they’re not negotiating with him- so again no risk but it improves the visuals.

If there was any chance of May accepting his offer I’d say it was a terrible idea, but there isn’t.

Owen Smith on channel 4 news now saying Corbyn is enabling a xenophobic, nativist, racist right-wing Brexit that betrays every single Labour Party value

As we all know, Owen Smith definitely represents the views of the membership.

A good analysis NW.. But the vice is tightening, there’s very little room for the UK to manuvere now. That’s both good and bad.. Good in that it will force our politicians to actually do something.
Bad in that no one knows what they might do with the in fighting in both parties as they are both broken and dysfunctional.

mattyfez

Member

A good analysis NW.. But the vice is tightening, there’s very little room for the UK to manuvere now.

TBH I don’t think that’s true- we can’t maneouvre but not because there’s no room, only because some idiot dropped the anchor in the wrong place. Nicely demonstrated by May’s new demands being more or less laughed at, while Corbyn’s comments get treated with more respect and seriousness despite him not even being in power,not because they’re amazing but just because they’re not basically moronic.

Also, neither of us can spell manuva.

Where do I get the hundred MPs that say they will vote against any delay? – publicly declared positions reported in many places. Same as the half the front bench will resign. Maybe less would when push comes to shove but there is no doubt there is a large swathe of labour MPs who believe the ” will of the people ” shtick

these are the folk who may be for remain but believe that their constituents will kick them out if they don’t back leave.

It’s all in the great British tradition of the Charge of the Light Brigade.

Only they’re charging our own lines.

And all the casualties will be us.

I agree mostly but..

idiot dropped the anchor in the wrong place

It does not matter, the UK was never going to get a better deal than it already had.. So the placement of the anchor was, and still is, largely irrelevant.

.

half the front bench

‘Half’ of either, or both, of the front benches resigning is pretty much normal politics these days. Both leaders have survived that kind of ‘manuva’ by ministers and shadow ministers a few times already. The back benches are already full of people who have resigned or been fired over Brexit policy. More to come. Some you might even notice.

Huffington Post reporting on the US lobbyist’s view of what they want from a future US-UK trade deal.

Lobbyists for big firms made more than 130 demands, which include:

• Changing how NHS chiefs buy drugs to suit big US pharmaceutical companies
• Britain scraps its safety-first approach to safety and food standards
• Law changes that would allow foreign companies to sue the British state
• Removal of protections for traditional British products.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/what-us-lobbyists-want-donald-trump-to-get-from-the-uk-in-a-post-brexit-trade-deal_uk_5c5b26c6e4b00187b5579f64?utm_hp_ref=uk-homepage

Just an example of what DFDS Liam would be up against.  He hasn’t got a chance.

We have a solution, a solution proposed by a staunch Brexit supporter here at work.

Pack your bags Scotland you are moving to Ireland and the Irish are moving to Scotland.

No border issues, except the Sea.

Off you trot..

🤣🤷‍♂️

And i’d say that’s a fairly typical attitude from a Beexiteer.

We wouldn’t have the problem of the likes of the Daily Mail if it wasn’t able to tap into a rich seam raging flood of ignorance, prejudice, self-righteousness, stupidity, racism, xenophobia and pettiness.

FIFY

Good analysis (if a little optimistic) of labours plans here http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/02/07/labour-s-new-brexit-policy-looks-an-awful-lot-like-norway-pl

My worry is that May will simply never go for it, which leaves everything unchanged & a choice of Mays deal Vs no deal.

As for DFDS fox, that huffpost is terrifying considering how desperately out of his depth he is, even worse in a no deal scenario where we would be so desperate for trade deals we’d be shafted by everyone.

My worry is that May will simply never go for it, which leaves everything unchanged & a choice of Mays deal Vs no deal.

This has been the plan since last year, IMO. At the last moment Labour will support it on the basis of some vague assurance that maybe at some point in the future the govt will perhaps consider doing something for the poor folk below stairs.

Huffington Post reporting on the US lobbyist’s view of what they want from a future US-UK trade deal.

And that, given the complete lack of control over US politicians being totally owned by lobby groups, is rather scary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNjckHXBNBI

And what a position we’ll be in to do a trade deal with the US that looks after UK interests. All the cards, they need us more they we need them, etc.

So a quick poll – who’s the worst PM out of May & Thatcher?

Cameron

My worry is that May will simply never go for it

Does she have to though? Isn’t there enough centre ground who’ll go for it and get it through?

So a quick poll – who’s the worst PM out of May & Thatcher?

Corbyn

May, Thatcher at least had a plan, no matter how heartless or destructive that was.

May, no plan and thoroughly incompetent and unable to put any kind of fear into her MP’s or listen to them – you either need to lead or listen.

Do I get points for being able to read the question and know who has been a PM?

Mays problem has been the lies………

She lied to Business- that she could keep frictionless trade & lied that Nissan didnt get extra cash

She lied to the EU- signed the WA, then reneged on it, lied that she wouldnt go round barnier & tried twice to go straight to heads of state, icluding the googletranslate letter farce

She lied to MPs (first about no GE) then later about when the meaningful b=vote would be etc

She lied to her party- when she said last december that teh backstop wasnt the CU (they were too dumb to notice, it was only when geoffry Cox pointed it out they got uset)

She lied to voters when she said that she thought ‘No Deal was better than a bad deal’ which is bollox coz her deal is a bad deal yet she knows that No deal is much worse….

I know all politicians lie, but she has eroded all trust, Im amazed she doesnt get called out more often