Enduro World Series controversy

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  • Enduro World Series controversy
  • LoCo
    Member

    The whole thing was solved when Mojo turned up to the WC in Fort Willian in those black wet-look gimp suits which actualy made small children cry (as well as costing an arm and a leg and being even more aero than lycra).

    πŸ˜† I was working for Mojo then, that was funny, the look on the riders faces 😯
    Chris made a pretty amusing point with that one

    The groms aren’t going to want to replicate a bunch of lycra clad perverts.

    πŸ˜†

    Premier Icon Lifer
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    The main problem for me is that lycra makes most riders look tiny compared to the bikes, which looks silly.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
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    Atherton wasn’t happy that Moseley used a skinsuit, which being much more aerodynamic than loose clothing, would have given her an advantage.

    “Fair enough to Tracy if she wants to do that to win, but for the sport and the longevity of the sport, to wear cool race kit and to make an image for yourself is more important than the odd win here and there,” said Atherton.Somebody tell Brailsford!!

    patriotpro
    Member

    no proof beside Fabien’s forthcoming honesty

    and

    he was issued a 5mn penalty

    = underwhelming story.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    thisisnotaspoon – Member

    The rule is pretty simple, clothes have to be baggy (IIRC the test is a 1″ fold in the material at various points)

    My skin’s looser than that!

    Premier Icon chakaping
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    Somebody tell Brailsford!!

    πŸ˜†

    Good point, but the UCI have outlawed loads of stuff that could make road racers faster haven’t they?

    Premier Icon bigjim
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    Premier Icon scotroutes
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    Isn’t that James Butson from http://www.pedals-edinburgh.com/ in Edinburgh?

    Premier Icon bigjim
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    there is a resemblance now you point it out, separated at birth? Not sure if he is an alien too.

    banks
    Member

    Somebody tell Brailsford!!

    **** anyway – next big cheat to be exposed..

    scotroutes – Member
    Isn’t that James Butson from http://www.pedals-edinburgh.com/ in Edinburgh?

    No, Chris Ball, the EWS head honcho.

    duir
    Member

    Chris Ball, I remember when he was a young fellow-me-lad downhill superstar wannbee working in a well known MTB shop…..how things have changed. He now sits in judgement over the biggest names in our sport.

    They broke away from the UCI and formed the EWS to get away from the ridiculous red tape. Sadly they are just turning into the same thing in a slightly different shade. Flexing their muscles at Barrel as a high profile target is definitely just making an example of someone well known. All kinds of competitors will be up to all sorts and Fabien has just been unlucky. Not sure what Minaar’s problem is but the Santa Cruz/Chris Ball link is undeniable and why do they care anyway when enduro is not their main concern?

    Chris Ball is just bitter because everybody in the EWS (the fastest riders on the planet) are all riding clipless and not on flats and that’s really bad for his credibility when instructing as everyone is now obsessed with “enduro”. πŸ˜€

    Seriously though, what a shame that the riders I most admire, aspire to ride like and have influenced me the most over the years have descended into this sillyness in the first year of the EWS.

    muddyfunster
    Member

    duir

    Not sure what Minaar’s problem is but the Santa Cruz/Chris Ball link is undeniable and why do they care anyway when enduro is not their main concern?

    Cedric Gracia’s main concern will now be enduro. Peaty hasn’t got long left in DH and may well be strongly considering a stint in enduro and I would put money on Minnaar moving to enduro very soon. Perhaps as soon as next year.

    Added to that the fact that Santa Cruz surely sell a lot more AM/Enduro bikes than DH bikes and their interest becomes obvious.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    LoCo – Member

    Cedric is a taking the mic. Shirley

    Why? He’s got a point if you ask me, course cutting’s probably the big issue for enduro to deal with, and nobody’s really got a clue how to do that yet. Other than taping and marshalling every inch of every stage anyway.

    Cynical people might wonder if they’re making a big noise about Barel to try and drown out the noise over other unsporting behaviour (everyone expected a Canyon rider to be busted for cheating sooner or later, we just didn’t think it’d be Barel πŸ˜‰ )

    butterbean
    Member

    There seems to be a lot of ambiguity about this whole ‘course cutting’ thing.

    Is there any actual evidence he went through the tape or did he just straightline an untaped wide open section & some other riders have got a bit pissy about it?

    Some of these precious flowers better not turn up to do the Mega in the twilight of their careers, they would have a nervous breakdown.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    butterbean – Member

    Is there any actual evidence he went through the tape or did he just straightline an untaped wide open section & some other riders have got a bit pissy about it?

    Not sure if that was aimed specifically at Barel tbh, it’s a common complaint of enduro. Bottom line is, you can’t tape everything, and sometimes sections change after they’re taped (not always from outright cheating, but sometimes). But o’course you can’t really run a world championship on “sporting” because everyone’s got a different idea of what’s OK. It’s a tricky one tbh.

    At one end of the spectrum you’ve got actual outright cheating- changing courses, breaking tapes etc. But then you’ve got the grey areas, like Joe Barnes in the UKGE, riding through a gap in the tape and skipping a section, in the full knowledge he was skipping the track but at the same time, not actually breaking the rules.

    Glad I don’t have to come up with an answer πŸ˜‰ even if you can tape everything, you can’t eyeball everything.

    Premier Icon kimbers
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    minaar was saying barel used ‘cheat lines’ on twitter, not sure how you define that

    fwiw steve parr on facebook said if he caught anyone shuttling even on friday practice youd be dq’d (although the ukge rules only state no shuttling on sat/sun)

    Premier Icon mactheknife
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    All these dramas would be sorted instantly if riders bothered going to pre-race meetings where the rules for that individual race are laid out. Thats where Barel fell foul a bit. The rest is all behind the scenes politics that you get absolutely everywhere. BUT the EWS need to step up and gets its rules sorted very quickly before it descends into a schoolyard bitchfest after every race.

    Northwind – tut tut. Hope thats not Mr Barnes you are refering to πŸ˜€

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    @mactheknife- you may say that, I couldn’t possibly comment πŸ˜‰

    Truth is there’s no easy definition of what’s a cheat line and what’s a fair interpretation of open taping. Or, what’s intentionally a range of lines and what’s just a lack of tape (btw that’s not a criticism, I’ve taped tracks out and the truth is you can never tape it as tight as you’d like, nobody’s got that much time, tape and stakes… Even for dh it’s difficult, for enduro it’s just not practical. So “if it’s not taped it’s fair play” doesn’t really work)

    2 bad sides to it obviously, one is the impact that has on the sport… the other is trail damage- repairing the innerleithen red route after last year’s UKGE was really disheartening, took 20 people most of a day to block off all the new shortcuts and repair the damage caused, almost every corner and technical feature had a new shortcut.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
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    My one thought from reading all of this is that they should make all riders attendance of the briefing(s) mandatory and failure to comply with that, means a DQ, harsh but it removes the possibility of anyone pleading ignorance as a defence…

    As for Barrels transgression I’m not sure it really warranted the action taken, or the comments made by some other riders (although these can often be taken out of context)…

    A smaller time or set finishing place deduction penalty would have perhaps been better if they are trying to set a precedent. 5 minutes was an effective DQ…

    TBH I think they’re winging it a bit still, it’s early days, do they have any sort of adjudication panel or is it simply done on the say so of Chris Ball?

    course cutting’s probably the big issue for enduro to deal with, and nobody’s really got a clue how to do that yet. Other than taping and marshalling every inch of every stage anyway.

    It could be done you know, using that there technology; some sort of simple GPS tag on every every competitor not for timing purposes, but as means of logging all of their movements during practice and competition, treat them like their “out on licence”, I’m sure G4S could do the EWS a nice deal. whats common GPS the accuracy like these days? +/-3m-ish? that would do surely?

    Any on the day results / Podiums would technically be provisional, and lets say for arguments sake the top 20 ~ 30? finishers would have their individual logs reviewed, and all competitors could be subject to random log checking, just to fully verify the result. it’s pretty simple you’d just overlay their log over the officially designated course and look of any significant deviations, you’ll never stop corner cutting… better yet each trace could published online after the results were finalized for everyone to pour over and bitch…

    Maybe even recommend (but not compel) the use of time coded helmet cams by competitors as a means of corroborating their honest conduct on course…

    My thoughts only I’m sure such a thing would be shouted down, it’s like goal line technology or having a video ref’ in football. Inaccurate or plain incorrect judgments apparently add something to a sport at the highest level… πŸ™„

    muddyfunster
    Member

    I don’t think you could have an automatic DQ for not attending a brief. I’ve done enduros where I’ve only managed to do race day. With riders doing other events it would be pretty harsh to DQ someone for being late.

    As above GPS would almost be accurate enough, but there might be issues under tree cover. In reality there won’t be hundreds of cutting areas, more likely a handful, even a static camera on potential trouble spots might be an effective deterrent.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    Interesting idea that. Though I suppose the difference between the real line and a cheat line (pro line πŸ˜‰ ) might be just a matter of feet sometimes.

    It’s an interesting thing, to me. A mate of mine found a sneaky line that was just about within the tape (you could ride along the tape and push it aside without breaking it) but not as intended at a race. It was closed off between practice and his race run. He knew fine well he was off course, but he was still outraged that they stopped him using it, because he’d never ridden the proper line in practice πŸ˜†

    I don’t pretend to know how proper racers think, mind, I ride the course as it seems it’s supposed to be ridden, otherwise I don’t feel like I’m really racing (and also, more often than not it’s the most fun). But I bet sometimes I’ve done lines that other folks consider cheating.

    muddyfunster – Member

    In reality there won’t be hundreds of cutting areas, more likely a handful

    I worked on 5 within a section about a minute long, there were loads more. Like I say, almost every feature and corner. Astonishing really (some of the cuts didn’t even work- it was just people shortcutting because they thought it was fast, or maybe because that’s what pros do, when the actual trail was faster)

    kudos100
    Member

    maybe he does believe fabs been doping, maybe he just really doesnt like the guy!

    Im always amazed at how the pros come back from serious inujries including Barel and laterly Gracia

    tbh since armstrong and the exposure of systematic doping in road cycling Im suspicious of all athletes at the top level

    I’d be willing to bet that many of the top riders take performance enhancing drugs when coming back from serious injury. Human growth hormone can make a huge difference to the speed of recovery.

    Although they are super fit and are genetically the cream of the crop, the human body can only heal so quickly.

    Whether they are doping at other times is anyones guess, but when injured I know people will do whatever it takes to recover.

    Although MTB does not pay nearly as well as other sports, it is hugely competitive at the top level and as a result the guys will do what it takes to win or come back from injury.

    It doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that there is controversy and bitching and whining surrounding the EWS. I’ve seen how competitive guys get at local races, let alone a new race series at pro level.

    scruff
    Member

    I’ve seen fast riders ‘cutting’ DH courses on lines you couldnt imagine when looking at the course, but still within the tape. Totally different mindset.

    banks
    Member

    @mactheknife- you may say that, I couldn’t possibly comment

    go on…

    Premier Icon cookeaa
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    I’ve seen fast riders ‘cutting’ DH courses on lines you couldnt imagine when looking at the course, but still within the tape. Totally different mindset.

    I’ve seen lines taken that brush the tape or clip a pole used in DH, and I’ve seen organisers bring the tapes in at certain places between practise and race runs, it happens and people simply have to deal with it.

    But it cut’s both ways though (no pun intended), if an organiser hasn’t placed tape or markings to prevent riders taking a certain line then it’s fair game IMO, if you can actually manage to loft it up and over that set of switchbacks and save half a second in doing so then fair play, just cos the other racers and the organizer didn’t spot the line doesn’t make it “cheating” if racing a single prescribed line is what you want, there’s always scalextric…

    Goes as much for Gravity Enduro as DH IMO…

    Premier Icon kimbers
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    I worked on 5 within a section about a minute long, there were loads more. Like I say, almost every feature and corner. Astonishing really (some of the cuts didn’t even work- it was just people shortcutting because they thought it was fast, or maybe because that’s what pros do, when the actual trail was faster)

    that just sounds like me on a race run – charging into stuff without thinking/ forgetting my practice lines and overshooting turns ending up in the undergrowth 😳

    Premier Icon scotroutes
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    I know nothing about this, so in true STW style, I’ll make a suggestion..

    How about just making it a free-for-all between the taped areas?

Viewing 28 posts - 81 through 108 (of 108 total)

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