Enduro World Series controversy

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  • Enduro World Series controversy
  • Tom B
    Member

    What is shuttling?

    sobriety
    Member

    Being given lifts back up the hill in a van.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    getting a lift to the top in a car ! im assuming in practice its still not allowed iirc the course is open for a week b4 hand to practise ?

    Why not disqualified? Event Rules say you will be disqualified for shuttling.

    munrobiker
    Member

    Brian Lopes should whine less about people 20 places ahead of him and race faster.

    Barel is in the wrong, but Lopes is always the first to jump on this when, frankly, he’s not doing very well.

    Why should cheats be tolerated? I’m with lopes on this for speaking out.

    Premier Icon ComradeD
    Subscriber

    Lopes isn’t even racing

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    It isn’t clear that the “race rules” also apply in practice, to be honest I wouldn’t expect them to apply. I think the penalty is harsh, if that’s how they expect it to be, they should clarify the rule.

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
    Subscriber

    Why should cheats be tolerated? I’m with lopes on this for speaking out.

    +1
    The likes of David Millar get welcomed with open arms though so doubt if it’ll go any where

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    more info here……

    Whistler valley, Crankworx created a rule that outlined no outside assistance (including using a vehicle to assist) would be allowed during the event. This rule was further explained and clarified in a mandatory athlete’s breakfast scheduled on Friday morning and hosted by the Crankworx Whistler organisers. Rider’s who chose not to attend this briefing missed crucial information regarding course changes, details of shuttling and race specific information. We are not responsible for educating riders who choose to miss planned briefings. Following the submission of evidence by a number of sources and a discussion with Fabien where he cooperated fully, admitted to a lack of knowledge of the rule due to team communications and an admission of his use of a vehicle, the organisation chose to apply a five minute penalty to his race time, removing any advantage that may have been gained from his use of the vehicle. We are all now looking forward to an incredible race here tomorrow.
    Regards, Chris Ball, Director, Enduro World Series”

    tbh as cheating goes it sounds relatively minor (uplifts were aloud durinf practise at earlier events iirc)compared to karim amour getting an off season ban given anonymity and not dropped by his sponsor for testing positive for a masking agent hence why chris ball banned him from EWS
    http://bikemagic.com/news/talk-to-frank-clive-forth-investigates-doping-in-enduro-part-1-of-2.html
    http://bikemagic.com/news/ttf-part-2-clive-forth-interviews-karim-amour.html#comment-79520

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    The likes of David Millar get welcomed with open arms though so doubt if it’ll go any where

    Served ban and returned? Unless you would like people to serve your punishments rather than those handed down by the governing body.

    He was banned for two years in 2004 after admitting taking banned performance-enhancing drugs

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Millar
    Thats the rules, glad the EWS put a punishment out so quick.

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    Given that the rule was clarified at the riders briefing, then I think that the penalty is fair. 5 minutes means he will absolutely score no points.

    The series is in it’s first year, they need to establish some continuity of rules and regulations between races in the future, but I think its good that a bit of common sense can be applied instead of bringing out the ban hammer for every mistake made.

    Lets not turn mountain biking into a sport like formula 1 where regulations override racing.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Those Clive Forth interviews seem a bit pointless eh? Good idea to tackle the subject but it looks like he felt too awkward to put the question directly to Karim.

    The likes of David Millar get welcomed with open arms though so doubt if it’ll go any where

    Read the story before you get on your soapbox matey, Barel’s already been penalised quite strongly.

    Premier Icon AlexSimon
    Subscriber

    Looks like Syndicate riders, Rachel Atherton, Lopes and a few others consider Barel a bit of a cheat in general, reading between the lines of their tweets.

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
    Subscriber

    Served ban and returned? Unless you would like people to serve your punishments rather than those handed down by the governing body.

    Returned = let off, life ban or nowt

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    rocketdog wrote:

    Served ban and returned? Unless you would like people to serve your punishments rather than those handed down by the governing body.
    Returned = let off, life ban or nowt

    So you want your rules then? Would you like to make up rules for all sports?

    http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Fabien-Barel-In-The-Penalty-Box-Five-Minutes-For-Shuttling.html

    Seems harsh to me. very good point that you can’t actually shuttle the west side trails. he just drove his car 1.5km from creekside to function junction!

    wayniac
    Member

    Is this the Rachel Atherton that cut the tape at Windham World Cup, gained a clear advantage and got away with it scot free.

    juan
    Member

    Well is there a formal proof it’s Amour or just a case of ‘pas de fumée sans feu’?

    juan
    Member

    On the subject of controversy, I think there should not be any change of tyres or bits in the bikes unless the rider carries them with him

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    That’s pretty interesting… Thinking about it, I did exactly the same thing (as did others) at the king of the hill, in practice- rode the glentress side, drove over to cademuir, rode that. You’d never consider that “shuttling”, it’s just “Getting to where the trails are”. Think he got his point across well.

    mikey74
    Member

    I think it’s a reasonable penalty: He missed the riders briefing so may not have been aware it was not allowed. However, ignorance is no excuse and therefore he deserved to be given a penalty. If he had been at the team briefing and still used the uplift, then a DQ would have been justified, together with a ban from future events as well.

    As it is, fair enough.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    mikey74 – Member

    and still used the uplift,

    He didn’t use an uplift, though. This is what rankles a bit, the 5 minutes is supposed to offset the benefit he gained, what benefit is that? A short pedal on the flat. If his account is accurate, anyway.

    juan
    Member

    Then northwind he should have pedal then.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Even if you believe he was trying to cheat, he didn’t get 5 minutes worth of benefit. In fact by his account he got no real benefit. That was effectively a DQ, made it impossible to compete, disproportionate IMO (and a bit mealy mouthed, either give a real DQ or give a sensible time penalty, don’t dress one up as the other)

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    youve gotta draw the line somewhere though northwind

    no shuttling means no driving between stages and you have to start the trails from the start, seems fair enough

    mikey74
    Member

    The benefit he gained is irrelevant. He broke the rules. End of story.

    Is this the Rachel Atherton that cut the tape at Windham World Cup, gained a clear advantage and got away with it scot free.

    You know what – I watched that and she didn’t. If she’d cut the tape on the inside of a corner it would be a different matter. But she messed up a jump, landed out of shape and went out the left-hand side of the track before a right-hand corner. Probably lost 5 seconds recovering her balance, getting back on track and getting back up to speed. That’s why the UCI didn’t DQ her for not going back up to where she left the track – she gained no advantage from a genuine racing mistake.

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    I also read that there was an express queue on uplifts only for Canadian competitors during practice. It seems that the local orgonisers were trying everything they could to minimize the practice of foreign riders, while maximusing the advantage to the locals.

    Premier Icon Speeder
    Subscriber

    Anyone know what the vague whinging from Minnaar et al is all about? Barel has always been portrayed as Mr clean, is there a dark underside we don’t get to see or is it just some random sourness?

    I can’t get over Lopes calling anyone out fro being a cheat. As one of the first to take SPDs into BMX racing when toe clips were specifically banned, I don’t think he should be throwing any stones from his particular greenhouse.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    kimbers – Member

    no shuttling means no driving between stages and you have to start the trails from the start

    See, I would take “no shuttling” as “no uplifts”, or at most “no getting lifts from one point to another”. You can’t shuttle yourself, that’s just plain ol logic. I’ve not seen anything in the rules to suggest that all practice had to start from the same place. Perhaps that was in the briefing, perhaps not. But that’s the sort of thing you really need to be clear about, it’s unintuitive and uncommon.

    But anyway, assuming (lacking anything to the contrary) that his account’s right, it’s a technical infringement only, no unsporting aspect, no actual advantage gained. So Chris Ball says ” the organisation chose to apply a five minute penalty to his race time, removing any advantage that may have been gained from his use of the vehicle”- but that’s not what they’ve done at all, this goes way beyond that- it’s punitive not corrective.

    SO I reckon they’ve made an arse of it. Nobody’ll be happy- I’m not happy that the race was messed with, fans won’t be happy as one of the main contenders was knocked out, Canyon and Barel won’t be happy… critics won’t be happy as he wasn’t dq’d, rules lawyers won’t be happy as the rules were neither enforced strictly, nor clear enough. Total loss.

    Premier Icon Speeder
    Subscriber

    I’m with Norhtwind.

    It seems in the rush to be seen to do something they’ve gone a bit too far and made a complete a*$e of it. Pleasing or appeasing no-one in the process.

    Still I’m sure they’ll learn from it, it’s early days after all and at least it’s not the UCI.

    juan
    Member

    I also read that there was an express queue on uplifts only for Canadian competitors during practice. It seems that the local orgonisers were trying everything they could to minimize the practice of foreign riders, while maximusing the advantage to the locals.

    Could it be to minimize the impact of foreigner riding like pigs and cutting corners?

    Hob Nob
    Member

    Could it be to minimize the impact of foreigner riding like pigs and cutting corners?

    Nice assumption, that anyone other than the natives cut corners.

    Assuming the tape isn’t messed with, what’s the issue anyway? you don’t have to follow the sheep line you know…

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    Speeder – Member
    Anyone know what the vague whinging from Minnaar et al is all about? Barel has always been portrayed as Mr clean, is there a dark underside we don’t get to see or is it just some random sourness?

    I think there was a pic tweeted (by peaty?) of barel with his helmet off on a transition stage at the first round and he didnt get penalised for that one so maybe they are making up for it?
    https://twitter.com/StevePeat/status/336920990112182272

    LoCo
    Member

    http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Fabien-Barel-In-The-Penalty-Box-Five-Minutes-For-Shuttling.html

    Interview with Fab on his side of it.

    que, more comments on twitter, this is an interesting one 😉

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    I really do get the impression that lopes, peaty, minaar dont like barel

    lopes implies that barels being told off because hes got a rep for cheating at the ews

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    But anyway, assuming (lacking anything to the contrary) that his account’s right, it’s a technical infringement only, no unsporting aspect, no actual advantage gained.

    If there was no advantage to it, why on earth did he go to all the hassle of getting in his car?

    LoCo
    Member

    Yep, there’s definatly some history there on all sides

    Well, this might be Barel’s squeaky clean image going down the pan…

    chrismac
    Member

    Given that. Incident happened on the practice day I don’t see what advantage he got. If it happened on race day then DQ.

    I also think that enduro should get rid of all outside assistance and riders should not be allowed to change tyres and various other bits for each stage. They should also have to take all their food and drink with then for the entire race If it is supposed to be more representative of what most of us o

    wrecker
    Member

    Greg Minnaar ?@GregMinnaar 14m

    I love the sob story on @pinkbike. 3 of the 5 Enduro rounds you are accused of cheating…. Never smoke without fire!

    Juicy!

    Premier Icon portlyone
    Subscriber

    Some of the PB comments made out that all he was doing was driving from his accommodation to the trail.

    I assume the organisers wanted the riders to only ride the course as practice and not session particular stages.

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