leffeboy – Member

But they don’t.[url=http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=religious+lobbyying&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=UWT&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&sa=X&ei=05HXTtaYMoaT8gPLnZjMDQ&ved=0CC8QvwUoAQ&q=religious+lobbying&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=f48b2e0d84cb2a30&biw=1162&bih=747]religious lobbying[/url] it’s not just homophobia, they try to influence the rest of the unbelievers lives too. If you’re in the congregation you’re adding weight to their argument, which you may or may not agree with if you cherry pick

I wanted to post the clip from Black Books where the Jehovah Witnesses come round and he invites them in to avoid his tax return but channel 4 have blocked its content boooooo hisssss

DONK – that is of course true but that is also true of any organisation that you are a member of. We aren’t all the same and it would be unreasonable to flounce each time you disagree 😉

As for lobbying, that may be true but the government also directly seek the opinion of a wide range of faith groups and use it to influence policy.

but the government also directly seek the opinion of a wide range of faith groups and use it to influence policy

which I have issues with. Do the government ask the people with their (quite possibly wildly) differing opinions or do they ask the head man who trots out the party line “it’s an abomination!” even tho quite a few of the flock don’t actually agree with that bit of the doctrine.

We aren’t all the same and it would be unreasonable to flounce each time you disagree

well if STW started some heavyweight lobbying I’d be looking closely at what they did and whether I still wanted to be be a member. You know STW rides are just a chance to get together with like minded souls people on a sunday morning for a couple of hours, some discussion about the difficult things in life, sram or shim, gears or the one true way, maybe tea and biscuits afterwards but if it all started getting serious….well I dunno, don’t wanna end up in a cult do i?

<edit>cougar’s analogy is better 🙂

We aren’t all the same and it would be unreasonable to flounce each time you disagree

It’s not quite “the WI is serving Garibaldi biscuits and I hate Garibaldis” though is it; it’s more like joining the BNP and then claiming not to be racist because you don’t really bother with all the “send ’em all back where they came from” bits.

I agree with DONK

You would not join the Clu Clux Clan and say you like the social scene and costumes but you don’t agree with burning black people on crosses.

To paraphrase it only takes good men to do nothing for bad stuff to happen !!!

In order to go to heaven, we have to confess our sins, accept we are in the wrong, and accept that Jesus, who lived a righteous life, chose to die as a criminal in our place. We have to make Him lord of our lives and live for Him instead of ourselves. This decision will affect every part of our lives.

I say this because it’s important to stress that it’s not Adams homosexuality that means he has to repent, if he was a heterosexual he would still need to repent, but yes, I believe that he would have to be willing to put this behind him and live in line with Gods will for him.

I have heard the testimony of a man who was gay before he became a Christian, he asked God to change him and that change really happened in his life. He confessed himself that he was no longer gay. This is not the same thing as denying what’s inside; it’s about being changed from within.

Now I appreciate that Adam is in a relationship, that he loves the man he is with, and that this would be a huge sacrifice for him. But can I also say that he wouldn’t be alone. I know people who have had to break off relationships when coming to the Lord. Part of being in the will of God is being with the person that He wants you to be with. When I became a Christian I accepted what the bible said about being ‘unequally yoked’ with an unbelieving partner, and knew that because I could only be with a Christian girl, my chances of finding love were greatly reduced, I may never have married at all. But I was willing to pay that price if I had to. I believe God has honoured that decision and since blessed me with a wonderful Christian girl. But the decisions we have to make to follow the lord are real, and sometimes very difficult. We are told in the bible to think about the building costs before we start to build.

I hope you don’t mind me using you as an example Adam, I mean you no offence at all, I realise you are a real person with a real life.

the Clu Clux Clan

The CCC? Is that the moderate branch of the KKK? 😆

hoooboy

Now I appreciate that Adam is in a relationship, that he loves the man he is with, and that this would be a huge sacrifice for him.

I believe he is married. You would have him divorce the man he loves to follow your religion?? 😯

God has honoured that decision and since blessed me with a wonderful Christian girl. But the decisions we have to make to follow the lord are real, and sometimes very difficult

So presumably if she decides she doesn’t want to be Christian any more, or wishes to move to a more moderate church, you’d have to divorce her?

Yes yes, I get it, all religious people are stupid, or evil, or possibly both. Having said that, lets look outside the cosy little part of cyberspace that is STW, and try to imagine how things are in the real world for a little while, eh? I was raised as a catholic, and up until getting a divorce from my first wife when she decided she preferred sharing a bed with my best mate than sharing one with me, used to attend church on a fairly regular basis. Now I’m remarried, there are certain aspects of my faith that are closed to me, but on the whole, I can live with that. I’ve got four brilliant kids, the eldest of whom is gay. Now according to some of the posters on here, I should be busily invoved in either shunning him or attempting to ‘cure’ him of his sinful ways. Guess what? I really dont care what anybody, least of all the bloke in the daft hat, says. I love him completely, the fact that he is gay is immaterial to me as long as he is happy and safe. Please, stop using a belief in God as a stick to beat people with – organised religion has pretty much got the monopoly on that already. If winning an argument on the internet is that important to you, crack on, just try to remember that not all people that believe in God are stupid or homophobic.
(edit) – I wasnt aiming that comment at you phil, you appear to be taking enough of a shoeing without me making it worse. I’m just trying to say that I personally believe you can have faith without wanting to ‘change’ other peoples sexuality or life choices.

PhilAmon, you seem like a pretty nice guy and I can tell you are trying not to offend, but I think its a shame as I truly feel you have been misguided.

I do realise that you probably feel the same about me.

AdamW, love whoever you want and feel no shame you are doing nothing wrong. One day we will be amazed people actually believed this stuff !!!

just try to remember that not all people that believe in God are stupid or homophobic.

I wasn’t suggesting you were, merely pointing out that if you still class yourself as catholic the funny hatted man apparently has your backing to say things you don’t neccessarily agree with.

and yeah I suppose kind of asking if you are OK with that.

It’s a tricky one alright, you might not like who ferguson has got in the back 4 at the moment but you don’t suddenly switch to supporting city cause you don’t agree with his views. but of course where religion is concerned it’s not quite so frivolous.

I’m just trying to say that I personally believe you can have faith without wanting to ‘change’ other peoples sexuality or life choices.

Isn’t it Catholicism that states that it’s ok to be gay because you have no control over it, but if you act on it then it’s a sin? How do you consolidate that with your faith?

Genuine question, not a troll. What do you do as a good Catholic when your son brings home his boyfriend?

No I’m not ok with it D0NK, much as I’m not ok with the ongoing cover up of paedophilia within the church. Why do you think I would be? This does nothing to diminish my faith in God, Just the evil b******s that use religion as a means to their own ends.
(edit) I ask him if he wants a cup of tea and give him a bollocking for hogging the remote control – why would I do anything else?

This does nothing to diminish my faith in God

didn’t suggest it would as I said a while ago, my beef is with the organisation.

Wait a minute, Adam’s a man? And Barnsleymitch has a thousand children? Truly, something or other is very right, or wrong, or something.

I have many, many children crikey. In fact, you’re probably heavy with the fruit of my loins just by reading this… 😀

I ask him if he wants a cup of tea and give him a bollocking for hogging the remote control – why would I do anything else?

Heh, good answer. (-:

I guess where my confusion lies is, you said you were Catholic, but re-reading, you said you were “raised Catholic.” According to the Catholic faith, the homosexual act is “an abomination” punishable by death, is it not? Has your “faith” changed denominations?

mitch and phil…. i’d just like to say even though i may not hold the same faith as you i sure do respect you for your input on this thread 🙂

now gaze upon my photo and tell me where the blood rushes to 😉

LOL, I can’t afford any more!

I thing the interesting thing, probably the most interesting thing from this is to see how religion actually works at a personal level; it’s very easy (…and I’ve done it in the past) to use it as a blanket pejorative label, and not see the person or people behind it.

Nice one chaps..

That’s got to chafe, surely to goodness!

As I said cougar, since getting a divorce, I’m not much of a catholic anymore, but I still believe in God, and still go to church on occasion. There are aspects of catholic doctrine that I cant and wont agree with, but as I said, I manage to get on with what I feel is a happy and fulfilling life. I know that’s a bit wooly, but I didnt post on this thread to have a theological argument, just to try and say that not all religious folk are inherently bad. I’m not trying to evade your question, I’m just not sure I’m able to debate this issue on a high enough level.
(edit) Damn you consequence! Damn you and your bear appreciation sketches!

I thing the interesting thing, probably the most interesting thing from this is to see how religion actually works at a personal level

Agreed. So often when we ask questions we receive rhetoric about “what the Bible says” rather than “what I think / believe” which is why I was pressing PhilAmon.

That’s an interesting journey there, barnsley. Do you think you’ll be looking to join a more congenial religion/version at some stage?

I already did mr woppit. And to make my future even more sulphurous, mrs mitch is a damned proddy!

I’m not much of a catholic anymore, but I still believe in God, and still go to church on occasion. There are aspects of catholic doctrine that I cant and wont agree with,

That makes a lot of sense, thanks. So basically you’re a non-denomination Christian, is that right?

How does that work? I mean, if you truly believe in God, shouldn’t that require more conviction? (Again, genuine question, I don’t know) Would a different denomination be more suitable?

I guess I’m just struggling with “I believe in god, but I can’t be arsed with all that religion business day to day.” Isn’t that going to come back to bite you?

so theres a knock at the door , and i answer it to be met by a jehovas witness and his son , i say to him sorry mate i have my own beliefs ok , he says thats fine mate, thats a bloody smart triumph chop youve got parked there on your path did you build it . next hour or so spent talking bikes, chops, etc drinking tea , the guy was an ex biker that had built up a lot of bikes in his time, all the neighbours thought that i must have been converted that day , no chance 🙂

Can I ask 2 questions?

Neither has to be answered, and they aren’t trick questions.

1. Barnsleymitch, how did you/do you approach religion with regard to your children?

2. Mr Woppit, you have a robust attitude when religion is raised, does your attitude change when thinking about personal interpretations of religion as opposed to big Religion?

No.

😆

…yes, I asked for that.

Can I ask you one more question?

Cougar – other than posting on here when the (all too regular) religion threads pop up, I cant say I think about it that much – it’s more a quiet conviction that I hold privately. It might come back to bite my arse one day, as you say, but if and when it does, it’ll be too late to worry about it!
Crikey – my kids go to a non – denominational school. They occasionally talk about god, but only in a sort of matter of fact way (does god make it rain, is grandma with god now, etc). When they’re at beavers, they occasionally attend carol services, etc, but as far as regular church attendance goes, I’ll leave it up to them to make their own choices as they get older. To be honest, they’re more interested in Doctor Who than God, and I cant fault them for it.

Thanks for answering, my kids seem to be the same; their introduction to religion of any kind has all occured through school, and they see it as a part of many peoples lives but something that we don’t do.

The question I was going to ask Mr Woppit could be answered by anyone I suppose; how would you react/think if your son/daughter came home and wanted to be a priest/vicar/imam/insert religious official of your choice?

I’d be surprised if any of mine did, and I suspect would support them while being humourously cynical about it….

The question I was going to ask Mr Woppit could be answered by anyone I suppose; how would you react/think if your son/daughter came home and wanted to be a priest/vicar/imam/insert religious official of your choice?

1: I don’t have any progeny (that I know of).
2: After the upbringing I would give such, it is doubtful that they would be interested in such a silly career choice.

I would expect them to match a previous memorable comment on here from an actual parent, proud of his 9-year-old son at “Religious Indoctrination” class:

“I don’t want to learn about Jesus. Jesus is boring. He never does anything. I want to learn about proper stuff!”

Selah.

I’ll leave it up to them to make their own choices as they get older.

Well done sir. But I fear PhilAmon wouldnt say the same thing.

Ok, cheers fella, just interested.

just try to remember that not all people that believe in God are stupid or homophobic.

we know this but the problem is what god thinks about it and the solution

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

leviticus 20:13

Woppit > that doesn’t really answer the question I don’t think.

Taken as read that it’s highly unlikely; if you did have an offspring, say a teenage son, who said “dad, I want to join the clergy”, how would you react?

Would you support him, forbid him, try to change his mind, or something else?