Desktop PC

My old desktop is feeling its age and as I’m about to dive into the realms of video editing (Xmas drone!), I suspect now is the time to find a replacement.

I don’t tend to play games, so what would STW recommend for a decent spec for video editing, media streaming and general browsing and, a reputable supplier?

I’ve a budget of around £1k.

Double the RAM in the one you’ve already got, send me the other £900.

This is such an open-ended question. At that budget it’s hard to go wrong beyond “spending too much money.” Go for an established brand, Lenovo, Dell. What does your video editing look like? You can stream media and browse the web on a Commodore 64, that’s a non-requirement.

The new Mac Mini and £400 on coke and hookers.

If you fancy having a go at building your own – and it’s really not hard – have a look at these parts: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/D6myXR

That would be better than any pre-built you can buy for £1000 by an order of magnitude.

If you want to go prebuilt, I’ve never had any problems with CCL Online.

I also came to here to recommend CCL computers.

Spending £1k really isn’t necessary.  Maybe treat yourself to a new monitor as well!

I got a new desktop from PC Specialist this year after my Chillblast one was glitching due to old age, easy to configure and pretty good value.

I have an old i3 2100 or something that won’t upgrade to Windows 11.

I don’t game or anything special, just casual we browsing with some light work of word processing.

I was looking to “upgrade” to something with an i5 9th gen, probably an i5-9500 with 16gb of RAM. Reasonable for the next few years?

Is it basically free? If yes then yes. The 9th gen is now 6 generations old, so old in computer terms.

Although I was born, bred and indeed carved a living from all things Microsoft, I do think that Microsoft ending Windows 10 support for the general public next year is an incredibly crazy manoeuvre.  But the simple answer is to use a Linux distro such as Ubuntu on your legacy hardware.

Although I was born, bred and indeed carved a living from all things Microsoft, I do think that Microsoft ending Windows 10 support for the general public next year is an incredibly crazy manoeuvre. But the simple answer is to use a Linux distro such as Ubuntu on your legacy hardware.

Pretty much my thinking.

I don’t understand it. MS spent a vast amount of effort getting people onto W10 in order to dispatch with decades of legacy shit hanging like a millstone round their neck. They went so far as to give it away for free, made sure that it’d run on almost any hardware and claiming that this would be their last desktop OS ever and future incarnations would be variants of W10. Then went “yeah, W10, that’s legacy shit now. Sorry!” It makes absolutely no sense to me.

It depends how involved you want to be in the technicalities, if you want a machine that’ll just work then it’s hard to look past the Mac mini.

£1k is the price of a Mac mini with 512GB storage and 24GB RAM, although the £800 one with 16GB RAM would probably be fine. TBH a refurbished M1 or M2 would probably be fine for your use case but the latest model will have a longer life span with support etc and comes in the new smaller chassis.

But the simple answer is to use a Linux distro such as Ubuntu on your legacy hardware.

Unless things have fundamentally changed then using a Linus distro for anything other than what’s baked in is far from simple.

To expand a bit (because Cougar likes me to do that) as a basic user they are great and work exactly like anything with an “app store”.

To do advanced stuff they’re also great as you already have the knowledge.

It’s the bit in the middle where it falls on its arse. Video editing sounds like exactly the place where you’re gonna have a bad time. GPU drivers are notoriously shit depending on whether you’re team red or team green. Software isn’t necessarily going to be the same as whatever is popular and accessible. Be prepared for hours of staring at forums looking for responses that don’t skip half a dozen steps because you should just know intuitively how to fill in the blanks.

How much is your time worth? Do you want to edit videos or learn how to work an operating system?

FWIW the Mac Mini is fantastic value as long as you want minimum spec, it’s the additional storage and RAM you’ll get shafted on. Hard. (you can buy two for less than the cost of doubling both).

@squirrelking

My Ubuntu response was intending for those with legacy hardware which will become unsupported.  Either that or try one the “hacks” to install Windows 11 which I have tested also.

I am using Ubuntu and was quite surprised with the driver support out of the box.  My old Dell Optiplex which was purchased in the days of Windows 7 works like a dream on Ubuntu with regular security updates.  Like I said, I’m a Windows geek through and through but have been impressed.  I have used Unix systems in the dim and distant past so I’m not unfamiliar with just how complicated a simple task should be but so far I’ve not had to do any of that.  I also have a Raspberry Pi and that has had lots of config to get WordPress running.  Not a pleasant experience.

But absolutely, if someone is buying a new PC to do video editing then 100% stick with Windows 11.

£1k is the price of a Mac mini with 512GB storage and 24GB RAM, although the £800 one with 16GB RAM would probably be fine. TBH a refurbished M1 or M2 would probably be fine for your use case but the latest model will have a longer life span with support etc and comes in the new smaller chassis.

Ignore that ^

FWIW the Mac Mini is fantastic value as long as you want minimum spec, it’s the additional storage and RAM you’ll get shafted on. Hard. (you can buy two for less than the cost of doubling both).

Because of this ^

Get the base model and add external storage if you need it. 16Gb RAM is absolutely plenty, because you’re not in Kansas anymore. See the video below for more details, which also shows how is it impossible to get anywhere near the same performance from a £599 home build PC as you will from the off the shelf base £599 Mac mini.

The Mac will also come excellent video editing software included.

My Ubuntu response was intending for those with legacy hardware which will become unsupported. Either that or try one the “hacks” to install Windows 11 which I have tested also.

@glennquagmire not gonna disagree with any of that, it’s come a long long way by all accounts but is still far from seamless if you want anything other than the standard “out the box” experience. It is getting better though and 10/11 may be the push it needs to make people start to concentrate on the awkward middle ground.

I think driver support is okay for the basics but it’s when you start wanting to play with hardware acceleration that it can get tricky for someone not totally au fait.

If my only options were “hack the installer to force W11 to install on unsupported hardware” and “install Linux” I’d almost certainly choose the latter in most cases. My thinking is, Microsoft knows more about Windows than I do. Fudging the install might well be fine, on balance it probably is even, but I don’t know and that makes me nervous.

If my only options were “hack the installer to force W11 to install on unsupported hardware” and “install Linux” I’d almost certainly choose the latter in most cases. My thinking is, Microsoft knows more about Windows than I do. Fudging the install might well be fine, on balance it probably is even, but I don’t know and that makes me nervous.

Same.. I’ve not used Linux for a while but I test drove Mint and Ubuntu quite a while back,  as my mate picked up about 10 old dell machines that coudn’t quite cope with the latest windows at the time, but they were core2 Duo machines with DDR2 if my memory serves correctly, I can’t quite remember…and core2 was already pretty old hat at that period in time too…

They pretty much just worked and I was really impressed…also came pre-bundled with a good suite of apps, VLC media player, think it came with open office too or it was available from the app center thingy as most common apps are..etc. and just worked, and worked well and this is going back quite some years…! I’m sure they have only improved since then.

Especially as a lot of people use web apps a lot, so as long as you have a browser and a media player pre-installed you’re basically good to go.

To be quite honest, I’d ditch windows in a flash if it wasn’t for gaming – but apparently that’s come on leaps and bounds too, quite a few ‘distros’ even come with Steam pre-loaded… or you can just install it…the only thing that’s holding me back slightly is the support for higher end gaming features is a bit confusing – HDR support, G-sync/freeSync support, Suport for high refresh rate screens, like 120hz+ etc.

I’ve been meaning to give this distro a try as it looks realy clean and prettty to me… https://kubuntu.org/

Now this is where I have a quandary.  My main PC for .Net development (although I don’t do so much of that currently) which runs Visual Studio, SQL Server, IIS and the rest of standard dev tools is not compatible with Windows 11 – the only “issue” is an unsupported CPU.  It also has a pretty decent graphics card and I also use it for gaming – so all in a pretty decent bit of kit albeit a few years old now.

Linux in this scenario is not option (I don’t think, anyway).  So having to buy a new PC just to run Windows 11 seems like madness when my current setup really should be fine.  And yet another PC to add to my collection lol!

So the Windows 11 “hack” has it’s attractions.  I have tried this on my laptop and so far all is well so it’s a tempting option….

.Net development (although I don’t do so much of that currently) which runs Visual Studio, SQL Server, IIS and the rest of standard dev tools is not compatible with Windows 11

Ok…

having to buy a new PC just to run Windows 11 seems like madness

…So the Windows 11 “hack” has it’s attractions.

So which is it? 😀

To be fair, there is no “one size fits all” answer here. If it was a critical development machine then I’d airgap it from the Internet. If was a gaming machine then I wouldn’t care if it got hosed. If it’s both then… I dunno, either take the hit on an unsupported and potentially increasingly vulnerable OS or buy a separate machine for dev.

My current thinking is that Windows 10 is “good enough” and “safe enough” today. What risks are we actually trying to mitigate here in a domestic setting? Windows XP is a distant memory and one I’m glad to see the back of, I hated it from the outset, but ‘going forward’ (ugh), who knows. I do know that I have a deskful of the things and I’d have to sell a kidney to replace everything so that’s not happening.

If it was a critical development machine

If it was a critical development machine, vital to my job or business, then I wouldn’t be running the whole show from a windows 10 box in my house!! I mean by all means I’d have a suitable machine to run stuff locally, and pay for it as needed, but I’d have hosted servers for heavy compute tasks that I can dial into.

@mattyfez

Just to clarify, the only issue on my radar is Window 10 becoming unsupported.  Without W10, everything else I use is effectively unsupported.  I do not host anything, I develop software (occasionally) and that is held under source control and deployed automatically onto servers I do not have access to.  I do, however, have a need to run code locally in order to debug bugs in VS2022.

Win10 becoming unsupported isn’t a particularly big risk for home users. Assuming your home PC sites behind a firewall (on your router) and you don’t visit dodgy sites or click links on phishing emails the lack of monthly security updates isn’t something that should be forcing you to replace your home PC in most cases. You can also pay $30 for a year’s extension for updates.

I’m not going to support MS’s decision on this as they’re quite clearly doing a money grab but it doesn’t mean you can’t use your current ageing PC for another couple of years (or well beyond if you’re willing to take the risk with the lack of security updates)

Assuming your home PC sites behind a firewall (on your router) and you don’t visit dodgy sites or click links on phishing emails the lack of monthly security updates isn’t something that should be forcing you to replace your home PC in most cases.

This is really terrible advice.

This is really terrible advice.

Hmm. I disagree, with a caveat of “it depends.” What’s the actual risk here, realistically?

There was a time where you could connect an unpatched PC to the Internet, count to 10 and have an infection. I’ve spent half my career cleaning up malware-ridden computers, it was like a weekly occurrence.

But today though? When did you last see a virus in the wild? I can’t remember the last one I dealt with, it was years ago.

You’re behind a hardware firewall rather than a straight-through USB modem. Windows has its own firewall. That’s “good enough” in most cases to prevent drive-by infections. We’ve (finally!) shot Flash in the head and stopped routinely installing old versions of the Java JRE “just in case it’s needed,” between them once the single largest sources of infection. Windows 10’s inherent security is a paradigm shift away from XP. Windows Defender has been the go-to consumer AV product for years, not only active by default but near-impossible to disable/remove without replacing it with something else. Mainstream web browsers actively flag up known hostile sites. https is almost everywhere.

The primary threat landscape today is phishing and variants thereof. The single most effective thing people can do right now to improve their security posture, aside from adding MFA to their email accounts, is to desist from clicking on stupid shit.

Over time this may change. Windows 10 will surely be actively targeted by Bad People once it goes out of maintenance. Even then though, MS have been known to release patches for EOL systems in the event of showstopper exploits.

Should we try to migrate to W11 where practical? Hell yes. Should we bin our entire estate because we can’t, that I’m less convinced of.

This is really terrible advice.

Why? The vast majority of attacks originate from inside, via malware on the system – usually it gets there from people clicking links they shouldn’t do. If people do that then last month’s MS Security update is extremely unlikely (like winning the lottery jackpot levels of unlikely) to be the difference between you getting hacked and not.

Most vulnerabilities that are patched through monthly updates are escalation of privilege attacks or some process accepting deliberately crafted data that causes an unhandled exception and can be used for a variety of follow-on attacks. It’s rare these type of attacks are used against home PCs, it takes a lot of work to do them and it’s far easier (and more powerful) just to have the user download a malware loader that leads to remote access etc. (via the user downloading malware as mentioned at the start).

Yes it’s good practice to regularly apply security patches, I’m just saying in most cases for a home user it’s not a massive risk if they don’t – with the caveat their PC isn’t just sitting on the Internet with no other protection and that the user is sensible when it comes to how they use their PC (including running anti-malware software with current signature updates, I assume MS Defender will continue working past October 2025 on Win10).

Why?

Because you’re posting it on the internet to people you don’t know. People with no technical understanding read advice like that and don’t understand the qualifications so assume that it’s perfectly safe to not worry about security updates at all (kinda like the Apple fanbois who literally believe that Macs cannot get malware). Those are the people who are probably most likely to click on random links in emails from strangers.

My thinking is, Microsoft knows more about Windows than I do.

It’s literally TPM 2.0 and whether the chip supports it. Why is the chip you are using today any less secure in Win 10 than Win 11?

I’ve frigged the install for Win 7 on an old Pentium M for similar reasons and it ran fine. I’ve frigged it on my laptop and it runs Win 11 fine. There is no compelling reason for Win 11 not to work with these older chips other than the fact Intel dropped the ball and Microsoft is running damage control. I’d rather be running an out of spec OS with updates than an out of date OS with no updates. My thoughts on Linux have been given already, YMMV.

FWIW you’re coming across as extremely hypocritical here considering you’re the one that’s been banging the drum for years about having updates switched on and making sure things are patched. Now it’s okay because a vulnerable chipset with AFAIK no known attacks to date won’t upgrade and “Microsoft knows best”?

We all take shortcuts but if you want to be seen as credible you don’t talk about it. Do as I say not as I do. If you know the risk that’s one thing but actively encouraging people that don’t is another.

My stance is simply “do you fully understand what you are doing?” I would wager that for most posters here, most readers, and most ‘advice from the Internet’ the answer is “no.” And on this particular point, I include myself in that list because I have not had cause to research it fully yet. Remember Vista UAC?

In one corner we have “end of life operating system,” in the other we have “frigged-about with operating system.” Which is the lesser of two evils? In an ideal world you should be running a fully patched OS running in a vendor-approved manner, but if that configuration isn’t possible then I honestly don’t know which is the least worst alternative here. As is often the case, that’s likely a complex answer to a seemingly simple question.

This is why I’m poking at it, if someone is asserting that something is a risk then in order to manage that risk we first need to define it. I’m not saying they’re wrong, I’m spitballing ideas and asking them to explain why they’re right.

Those are the people who are probably most likely to click on random links in emails from strangers.

Well an MS security patch almost certainly won’t help people that click on dodgy links anyway. It’s probably actually worse to think that if you patch monthly it provides a high degree of malware protection so you can be less selective about what you click on.

It’s a multifaceted thing…

Modern routers, windows built in security and web browser security is very important.

But as said above, the most common attack vector these days is via scam phone calls and clicking on dodgy links from dodgy emails…if you fall into that trap then it doesn’t really matter as you kind of bypassed your own security and opened the door.

In one corner we have “end of life operating system,” in the other we have “frigged-about with operating system.” Which is the lesser of two evils?

Except it’s not that choice. I havent “frigged about” with the OS at all other than asking it to to politely ignore the TPM version when upgrading. The OS is more than aware of what chipset I’m running, it’s just shrugging it’s shoulders for now and still updating as it should. Whether it will continue to do so is another question entirely.

But here’s the crux of my issue, I could either run 11, supported or I could run 10 unsupported. There is no Linux option unless someone decides to port Windows 365 (small issue tbh), Xero and whatever other software my SO uses.

She is not alone, there are plenty of people out there on older machines using Windows who cannot upgrade and this is creating a massive problem. Unpatched systems are a huge risk, you would think people learned after WannaCry. Windows 10 was supposed to be the last OS you got. Till it wasn’t. So what, we’re just supposed to write it all off as e-waste?

are there no sensibly purchasable “upgrade” processors that’ll fit these older pcs – or is it the motherboards that don’t support this extra security ?

I havent “frigged about” with the OS at all

Dude, that’s literally your words.

Whether it will continue to do so is another question entirely.

Which is exactly my point. Do you know the ramifications? I don’t. Could be fine. Probably will be. But I don’t know.

But here’s the crux of my issue, I could either run 11, supported or I could run 10 unsupported.

Well, no, this is wrong. You could either run W10 unsupported or W11 unsupported. The latter will receive security updates, for now at least.

She is not alone, there are plenty of people out there on older machines using Windows who cannot upgrade and this is creating a massive problem. Unpatched systems are a huge risk, you would think people learned after WannaCry. Windows 10 was supposed to be the last OS you got. Till it wasn’t. So what, we’re just supposed to write it all off as e-waste?

Absolutely no arguments here, that’s bang on.

are there no sensibly purchasable “upgrade” processors that’ll fit these older pcs – or is it the motherboards that don’t support this extra security ?

AIUI, you need TPM 2.0 and at least an 8th generation Intel processor. It’ll depend on the specifics of the motherboard in question, but in most cases you’d probably be looking at a new motherboard, CPU, and memory. While you’re at it, you might as well replace the power supply and throw in a new big SDD as well. So, basically, everything inside the case. There might be exceptions where a firmware update will fix the TPM and you can fit a compatible CPU to an existing motherboard, but I think most systems will need to be scrapped and completely replaced, especially laptops and mini-PCs.

An unpatched system is vulnerable to exploits which are discovered, patched, and documented on patched systems. Disclosure is an important part of the software security process. A user running a thing locally is also no longer a prerequisite for example if a malware payload can be distributed via online advertising networks via websites (not an unheard of thing) and uses unpatched vulnerabilities in an out-of-support browser version to gain system access. There so are many other hypothetical routes to infection for operating systems without current security patches that I’d recommend an air gap protocol of some sort to mitigate risk. You might well get away with it indefinitely on an online machine, but it’s a dumb idea to try. A firewall is not adequate protection for unpatched operating systems, especially those with published vulnerabilities and in widespread use.

I won’t get involved in this odd little nerdy pissing contest.

I’m assuming average ‘man on the street’ tech knowledge, so excuse any sucking eggs.

I’d buy this one

HP Pro 400 G9 Core i5-13500 16GB RAM 256GB SSD Windows 11 Pro Desktop PC – Laptops Direct

It’s 13th Gen so not brand, brand new, but it’s new enough. It’s fairly boring, middle of the road office PC, but a solid base to build a really good video editing PC.

It’s got a decent USB C port which will make transferring files from your drone a little quicker.

RAM is more important than CPU for editing video, it’s not underpowered at all with a 14 Core i5, but it’s not worth spending on a i7 or more for this. It’s easy and cheap to upgrade to 32GB RAM.

It’s got a spare RAM slot, so buy this and install it, if you’ve never done it before, a 5 min YT vid will show you how to do it.

Crucial 16GB (1x16GB) DIMM 3200MHz DDR4 Desktop Memory – Laptops Direct

Another nice upgrade would be a bigger SSD as video files are large and working from an external drive will make things slower and less reliable.

Kingston Fury Renegade 2TB M.2 2280 Internal SSD – Laptops Direct

2TB is probably massive over kill, 1TB versions are not that much cheaper. It’s a bit more involved in swapping an M.2, they do tend to run native now rather than needing drivers installed, but again it’s simple-ish following a YT video to do or sub it out to a local PC repair place.

Laptops direct are one of my suppliers, they’re reliable for delivery, I wouldn’t bother with them with after-sales, they are pile ’em high, sell ’em cheap operation, but going direct to HP isn’t hard.

My old work laptop was just one generation behind what’s officially supported for win11 – kept it when work gave me a new one, installed win11 bypassing the CPU requirement and it’s working fine. Microsoft even tell you how to do it. Wouldn’t surprise me if it just gets relaxed to any 64-bit CPU and TPM 1.2 to install in a reduced security mode but that at least gets updates, it would cover most of the win10 machines out there still being used.

As for the original question, +1 for a base new Mac Mini and as much Thunderbolt 4 external SSD storage as the change buys you.

Dude, that’s literally your words

I said I frigged it. As in put a frig (bypass) in to allow it to install. I think we’re at cross purposes on the terminology.

Which is exactly my point. Do you know the ramifications? I don’t. Could be fine. Probably will be. But I don’t know.

What ramifications are you imagining from installing on an unsupported chipset? As I said I did the exact same thing to get a Pentium M to run Windows 7 and it’s got all the way to 10 with no bigger problem than being slow as hell. I’ve had no angry emails from Satya Nadella or Pat Gelsinger demanding I upgrade so I’m not sure why you thing this is some sort of big deal. The worst that will happen is that they close the loophole that allows you to upgrade which, based on past performance and the fact they don’t even seem to care whether you actually own a copy of Windows in the first place, I think is as likely as me taking your job.

Well, no, this is wrong. You could either run W10 unsupported or W11 unsupported.

Again, cross purposes. I was talking about the OS, not the chipset. Win 11 is supported as its getting updates.

I’d recommend an air gap protocol of some sort to mitigate risk.

Which is exactly what I said back there. ^

What ramifications are you imagining from installing on an unsupported chipset?

I have no idea. Which is the point.

I initially didn’t imagine what ramifications there would be to disabling UAC on Vista, it only makes those annoying ‘are you sure?’ boxes go away, right? Then when it all came out in the wash it turned out that it was a really f’n stupid thing to do because it sodded up all manner of internal security and reliability systems.

It might be fine. It probably will be fine. But I’m damned if it’s a course of action I’d blindly recommend to non-technical users without first fully understanding what it does myself. Your understanding may well be better than mine in which case fair play, I’ve installed W10 more times than I’ve had hot dinners but I’ve installed W11 a grand total of once.

Microsoft even tell you how to do it.

Win 11 is supported as its getting updates.

From a page linked from that one, emphasis mine,

Installing Windows 11 on this PC is not recommended and may result in compatibility issues. If you proceed with installing Windows 11, your PC will no longer be supported and won’t be entitled to receive updates.

Linux, then?