Demo review of Banshee Spitfire and Transition Scout (other bikes suggestions?)

So as some of you know, I went and tested the Medium Banshee Spitfire and Transition Scout that Pedals in Edinburgh have (thanks guys). We ended up taking them up to Glentress (always a good day out and good to test stuff on known trails).

So a bit about me as a rider to give you some context: I am a 5’9″ women. Been riding a Nicolai Helius CC for the past 4 years (130mm rear/140mm front and 69o head angle). Other bike is Cotic Soul (120mm up front).

Riding: XC Cheviots > Thrunton Woods > 7 Stanes/Hamsterley etc > Yorkshire Dales days out > Lake District epics (pass bashing etc) > Quantocks > 1 Zona Zero trip and plans for the Alps this year.

Reason for looking for an upgrade. I feel I have come on as a rider (thanks Ed Oxley!) and want something a bit slacker. Also the Nicolai forks are going to die and are a straighter steerer. Time for something slacker, longer and with more modern fork set up.

Most important thing for me: it has to be able to pedal, as I am not the fastest uphill and I do have issues with front wheel lift on climbs. Oh and as part of that, cant weight a ton.

So to the bikes:

The gearing, especially on the 1×10 Spitfire was a little high for me, and the SRAM on the Scout isnt something I am used too, but otherwise tyres etc were all good to get a good idea of the frames. The bars are much wider than I usually ride, but to be honest, I just didnt hold the grips at the end (smaller women hands helped!).

Initially the Scout felt the correct length and the Spitfire a little long; but after riding, the extra 10mm of the Spitfire wasnt an issue. The Scout has a very active suspension (just as they state) but I am a rider which really likes a bike to be able to climb as firm as a hardtail, and I found this was only achievable fully locked out on the Scout, which is fine on fireroads, but of course compromises the grips on singletrack climbs. The trail setting provided a comfortable ride, but it didnt feel efficient. By comparision, the Spitfire climbs like a demon. You just leave the Crane Creek in trail and sit and ride and dont notice any pedal bob at all. It was very impressive.

On the way down, the Spitfire, as expected, shone. It absolutely loves to be ridden downhill. I thought it might be slow to turn in and struggle on the switchbacks, but it really didnt. I rode down stuff way with far more confidence than I do on my Nicolai (ok, we were just on the red and was aware these weren’t my bike). Get to know that bike and you could be nailing all sorts of downhills. By comparison the Scout felt steep and a bit nervous going downhill. To be honest, I preferred the Spitfire so much, I left my husband with the Scout for much of the day, so some that is his view.

If it matters, the Strava times on the descents showed with the Spitfire always being faster when I rode both down, regardless of the order.

So…what did I decide! The Scout is defiantly off my shortlist. If you like an active plush ride, yes consider it, it certainly is a good bike. For me, it was just a bit ‘meh’. I spent the hour drive back to Edinburgh deliberating a lot about the Spitfire. We were both impressed. At the moment, I havent ordered one. Two reasons: one is a it is a bit heavy. Probably 1lb heavier in the frame than my Nicolai which doesnt solve my requirement for a lighter bike and I wonder how it will fair (ok with better gearing) on a 60 km Lake District ride or a more XC Cheviot day out. Secondly, I think it may be a far better bike than I am rider. I can see how the ‘downhillers trail bike’ tag has come to be. Thing is, I am not a downhiller! If you want a bike you can rag, but still pedal up hill, I doubt you can beat it.

So, at the moment it is still on my shortlist, but I am going to keep looking for now. Seeing if I can get a demo of the SC 5010 at Bike Treks in March (I want an Alu frame) and I am wondering about a Turner.

Thank you everyone for your input so far. I’d give that Scout a go if you are interested in it, as there are clearly people who like it, it was just too active for me (and p20).

Sounds like you want/need a Giant Trance SX.

Yep. Ignore the mass produced/just another Giant snobbery and buy one.

The frame is very light, the DW/Maestro link rear suspension is a firm pedalling platform but can also take a thrashing without bottoming out, it will take modern forks from 140-160 and comes with all the current trendy stuff if that’s your thing: 135×10 rear end with dropouts included for 142×12 if you like added stiffness out back, internal cable routing including for stealth droppers etc…

I looked at both the frames you tested before buying the Trance, also looked at the Orange-5, Nukeproof Mega TR, Kona Process 134 and the Yeti 575….they were all around the £1000-1500 mark but ultimately none seemed to offer what the Trance did except for some boutique exclusivity…and I’m too old and cynical to care about that anymore!

Yes, ok I am being a brand snob in regards to Giant. However, I am prepared to listen and will book a test ride if I can. Do you know if you can buy the Trance SX as frame only?

Seems to me if you demo a bike and really like it that is the one to buy! I can evangelise about my own bike as well if that helps though.
Weird back triangle on the giant with a strange spindly bit on it!

I can evangelise about my own bike as well if that helps though.

Haha – yes, Andy, thanks! You have a fair point. And yesterday proved how ever much you read, you really need to just ride stuff! Tbh it was the first bikes we have ever demoed rather than just buying!

I do like it; its just I complain the Nicolai is heavy on long rides, and that Spitfire isn’t going to solve that. Its the one bike does it all issue! Not discounting it yet though!

Does the Giant run an overdrive fork?

Another minor potentially helpful comment – if the climb switch on the DBInline works as well as it does on the DBAir CS I would really recommend it as a rear shock. It is so much better than other versions I have used, and saves loads of energy on a long ride. Together with a half damped Pike up front it is a great combination for the flats and up hills.

New Trance is a standard tapered head tube/steerer combination, they’ve abandoned the experiment with their silly oversized Overdrive steerer or whatever is was called!

The spindly bit in the Giant’s rear triangle is simply bracing, not attractive admittedly.

The standard Trance frame is the same as the SX, the only difference is with the complete bikes the SX comes with a 160mm fork and the rest of the range gets a 140mm item but the same frame throughout the lineup.

Andy, the DB Inline was excellent. The CS allowed you to climb while still having some absorption.

The first climb switch I’ve ever used that really works – it seems to completely eliminate pedal bob but still feeling like you get the advantages of full suss, and almost never letting the rear wheel spin out on loose / technical ground.

I do like it; its just I complain the Nicolai is heavy on long rides, and that Spitfire isn’t going to solve that. Its the one bike does it all issue! Not discounting it yet though!

The weight thing is a strange one – it’s hard not to think it matters but if you’re 10 stone and the Nicolai is 29lbs vs the Spitfire at 30lbs, then you’re comparing a total weight of 169 and 170lbs to haul up the hills – barely 0.5% difference. On the other hand the Spitfire is a very efficient pedaller whilst I believe your Nicolai is more active under pedalling? That (and the slightly bigger wheels) should far outweigh the tiny extra weight – but you’ve ridden it, how did it compare as a pedaller?

If I get around to doing the South Downs Way in a day (which is 100 miles and 12,000′ of climbing) this summer or the next, I’m pretty certain I’ll do it on my Spitfire rather than my Soul, despite the latter being 4lbs lighter.

Did you ride it in the neutral setting?

My buddy has just got a spitfire and has turned in to a machine gone on the ups and downs very upsetting :D.
Regardless of the weight of the frame it could be worth looking at wheels to when you change as a lighter weigh wheel/tyre combo could make a huge difference. Giroscopic forces and all that.

thanks for the review, interesting reading! I have a large scout on order after my demo and didn’t test the spitfire, although i did consider one to start with. I’m not sure if i’d want to try the spitty now just in case 🙂

I definitely agree about the suspension being active on the scout though, levels of rear grip were impressive.

If you liked the Spitfire but want something that is maybe more suited to wheels on the ground trail riding then try a Phantom (basically the spitfires 29er brother).

I demoed a Spitfire and bought a Phantom. In my opinion, unless you are riding DH tracks, it is the better trail bike in every way (climbs better, is more nimble and feels better on the decents). At 5ft 9 you would be perfect size for a medium (which pedals also have 🙂 )

See my thought process buying a new bike was to get something that was really capable downhill as long as I didn’t sacrifice much uphill. Depends if you expect to own more than 1 bike but I was after 1 bike for everything, and I wouldn’t think of a 29er as that. I ended up with a 160/160 bike and I’m very happy! Won’t use the E word…

Funny, that’s what I did too. I also didn’t think 29ers did what I wanted in terms of downhill (priority for me too). I’m glad I tried one though as it turns out in my case that they do (including colorado and the alps) and are much more fun for everything else and climbs so much better. Apart from riding on DH tracks.

Although for some reason people never believe me until I practically force them to have a go on mine in order to put an end to the arguments about how “29ers apparently can’t do XYZ so I discounted them”. I wish I got commission from Banshee and other short travel trail 29er makers as I know of at least 3 definite sales (from 4 people having rides) as a result 😕

But from the description in the original post I’d say a short travel 29er like the Phantom, Smuggler or Segment would be perfect.

Yes, ok I am being a brand snob in regards to Giant. However, I am prepared to listen and will book a test ride if I can. Do you know if you can buy the Trance SX as frame only?

Trance can be bought frame only, standard and SX share the same frame, slacker head angle is achieved using a longer fork (Pike 160 over the 140 Revelation on the non-sx)
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-gb/bikes/model/trance.27.5.frameset/19232/77350/#overview

Did you ride it in the neutral setting?

Yes.

Agree with the above some weight could be saved on wheels etc but I guess I am cautious when starting from a heavier base level. Also agree that basically I could really have one less beer the night before 🙂

Re the phantom, one of the guys at Pedals owns one and was signing its praise. Have to say I never had 29er on the radar. Sadly we couldn’t stay long enough to try it.

Re pedalling…went out on the Nicolai this afternoon. Reminded me it is actually a damn good pedaler itself and feels good on a local ride due to its bit more ‘xc’ angles but it did also feel steep. Also made me realise that the Scout really was too plush for me.

Thanks for the info re the Trance frameset. Assumed as the shock was different to the SX it was different.

Arghhhh that Spitfire is still very much in my mind!!

I’m also a Spitfire owner and it’s my only mtb and use it for absolutely everything. The gearing was key for me and it took a fair bit of trial and error to get it right on a 1×10 setup as started of with a 11-36 and 34t upfront, went to 30t and it was too spinny but now got it just right with a 32t and a 40t one-up and it’s great.

I’ve done a couple of 30 mile rides on it with a good mix of climbing and it’s handled it brilliantly thanks to the CCDBA because it’s such a good shock and you get very little pedal bob. Weights not an issue either as it’s such an efficient pedaller so I wouldn’t get hung up on that. If the fact it’s 30lbs is worrying you then you should probably be looking at something more trail/XC orientated IMO but then you’ll save what maybe 4lbs and not have the long, low or slack geometry that you’re after.

Is anyone running a Zee mech and 40t on their Spitfire? Any issues with chain growth?

Yeah that’s what I’m running but have had no issues since going to the 40t with chain growth. When I first built my Spitty up I went through 3 chains in about 5 rides due to problems with chain growth and alignment, turned out when the shop I got the frame from fitted my BB they put the spacer on the wrong side, after I sorted that it’s been fine.

Are you fitting the chain with the shock fully compressed to set the length?

Nothing yet – looking to get one if the fun police allow it.

But yes, that’s how I would do it.

I’d suggest going with the One-up as it comes with the 16t sprocket, oh and full instructions for setup. Is your Zee mech the one that takes up to a 36t as if it is the 40t is the max size you can go to without needing to modify the mech with the rad cage. Oh and you’ll also need an XT cassette since it comes apart as if your running a SLX you’d need a hack saw to mod the cassette.

If the fact it’s 30lbs is worrying you then you should probably be looking at something more trail/XC orientated IMO but then you’ll save what maybe 4lbs

Maybe 2lbs with a carbon frame – definitely not 4!

I started out with a Zee mech but found it wasn’t keen on the chain growth plus an 11-36 cassette’s range – a medium cage SLX has been working much better since fitting. Mine had a 34t chain ring to start – after about 6 months I dropped to a 32t and that still gives plenty of top-end whilst being easier uphill. The smaller chain ring size causes more anti-squat so it bobs even less.

Cheers for taking the time to write the review ahsat.

unfortunately, your wants and needs couldn’t be further from mine. Can I ask you a few questions about the Scout?

Did you have a shock pump with you? you don’t mention it. and did you play around with shock pressure/compression settings or just ride it the way it left the shop?
How much do pedals charge for a Demo of it? and did they spend any time with yu you to adjust bar position/stem height, shock and fork settings to your taste before you left? (Hard to tell from the pic but the bars look quite high and the saddle awkwardly far forwards)

How much do pedals charge for a Demo of it? and did they spend any time with yu you to adjust bar position/stem height, shock and fork settings to your taste before you left? (Hard to tell from the pic but the bars look quite high and the saddle awkwardly far forwards)

From demo I did before Christmas, £30 (refundable on purchase, I think, so pretty standard).
They certainly took the time with me to get the setup right.

ahsat, i met you in GT on saturday. I was on the pretty similar spitfire as you.

I know i raved about the bike if you need any more info drop me a line. email in profile. 😀

The Solo is worth demoing. It was the one of the Santa Cruz range that suited me. Bronson wasn’t lively enough.

Have you considered a Bird Aeris?
Don’t be fooled by the slack/long/low angles – it’s really well balanced and never felt like ‘too much’ bike on my demo around Cannock.

After demoing about 10 bikes it’s what I settled on. It’s a tad lighter than the Banshee I think, and the super-low price allows you to spec a lighter build in comparison, so it works out pretty well overall.
For example, mine will be around 28.5lb.

Carbon wheels can make a nice different to how the light the bike feels – Bird do their own.

I think they have demo bikes, but you may have to travel down south.

Did you have a shock pump with you? you don’t mention it. and did you play around with shock pressure/compression settings or just ride it the way it left the shop?
How much do pedals charge for a Demo of it? and did they spend any time with yu you to adjust bar position/stem height, shock and fork settings to your taste before you left? (Hard to tell from the pic but the bars look quite high and the saddle awkwardly far forwards)

Yes. Had a shock pump with us. However the shop took the time to set the shock up to the recommended sag for my weight. Didn’t play with it any more as decided if it was that far off my preferred riding with the recomended settings then it was not the bike for me. However of course you could play for hours (though didnt really have hours!)

Saddle height was adjusted and we adjusted the fork on the trail. Didnt really feel I needed to play with the stem etc but they were very useful guys so sure would be happy to help.

Aye and as Dave said £30.

I prefer a very stiff pedalling action but some people like it far more active. If so, may well be the bike for you. Just like Dave liked it. Worth giving it a try.

ahsat, i met you in GT on saturday. I was on the pretty similar spitfire as you.

I know i raved about the bike if you need any more info drop me a line. email in profile.Mac you were a star. Very helpful. Thank you for the email offer. If something crops up might well give you a shout.

Have you considered a Bird Aeris?

TBH no *goes off to have a look** Looking at one of your threads can you spec it with the CC shock?

Do you mean ‘light’ or do you mean fast rolling? I thought SC 5010 from what you were asking maybe with a slackset if you want a more relaxed head angle, but you can make a bike feel a lot quicker by using a fast-rolling rear tyre with a grippier front, something like a Minion DHF up front and an Ardent Race or an Ikon at the back for example.

I remember when Cotic demoed the Rocket and people were saying that it ‘didn’t ride like a 30b bike’. If you looked closely at the pics, the demo bikes appeared to have Ikons out back. Set up like that, a 30b bike is still a 30lb bike obviously and on steep climbs you’ll still be pushing a heavier mass against gravity, but it’ll be significantly easier to pedal. Cue lots of: ‘it doesn’t feel like a 30b bike’ etc. Though obviously some of that is also pedalling directness.

Said the man who’d been riding a 24.5lb odd Ragley Ti with 2.35 Ice Spiker Pros for a week in a graphic , somewhat tiring, demonstration of the difference that higher levels rolling resistance make even with a light bike 😐

Light bike with fast tyres for the win, but you can do a lot with careful tyre choice to make bikes feel and ride quite a lot quicker on climbs without losing too much grip elsewhere – all imho, ymmv etc.

I guess I’m saying, don’t get too hung on on weight.

ahsat – Member
TBH no *goes off to have a look** Looking at one of your threads can you spec it with the CC shock?

Yes, either Inline or CCDB-CS.
I’ve gone for a Rock Shox Debonair for a bit less money.

So purely out of curiosity, does anyone know the spitfire frame weight?

I’ve got the Rune and have managed some pretty big XC rides on it and I’m not that fit! Despite weighing over 32lbs, it pedals well, climbs better than a 160mm bike has any right too and does genuinely ride like a much lighter bike.

I run lightish wheels (Easton Havocs) with a Magic Mary front tyre and either a Hans Dampf or Rock Razor on the rear depending on the time of year.

I did a big XC ride in Swaledale and thought that I was going to get destroyed – most of the people I was with were on XC bikes and most of them proper roadies. Amazingly, I didn’t do too badly on the climbs. But I guess I’m happy to haul a bit of extra bike up a hill to have fun going back down. Banshee make some great bikes. I love my Rune but if I was goint to replace it, it’d be a Spitfire which is the bike that I probably should have bought but didn’t due to lack of demo availability.

So purely out of curiosity, does anyone know the spitfire frame weight?

I’ve read 7.5lb with CCBD (though not quite sure where off top of my head)

Thanks Alex for the info.

Agree BWD re tyres though the HD/NN combo is probably what I’d ride anyway. It certain pedals lighter than expected for such a capable bike.

For example, mine will be around 28.5lb.

For a bike with a frame that’s nearly 8lb with a M+ Debonair?

I’d be amazed if it’s under 30.

Carbon rims, cranks, bars.
1×10 XT
I’m not sure it’s the Monarch+ might just be the Monarch with a debonair can. Could be wrong – Ben might clarify.

Still not a hope in hell. Struggle to get a 6.5lb carbon Nomad to that weight.

My Reign, which is a 5.4lb frame without shock, carbon wheels, cranks, XX1 is only just 28.5lbs.

I guess we’ll see in a few weeks. I would put the one I demo’d at about 30lb, and that was 2×10 SLX.
(all weights are without pedals btw as that’s what I consider the industry standard method)