Cropton Forest Assault

it even more rarely happens in a vacuum.

when the bike rider is lying on the ground and someone says something like that we call it victim blaming.

seeing as people dressed as MTBers don’t tend to go around beating up passers-by I’m assuming there’s more to this story.

well the “more to the story” seems to be that MTBers seem to club together with people they’ve never met before who dress a bit like them to assume “must have provoked”.  to the extend that some people think assault wasn’t enough:

Denying people on bicycles the right to ride across ‘his’ countryside, should’ve chucked him in the burn after.

If they just left after witnessing an assault then I’m not sure but I’m pretty sure that’s also illegal.

Maybe it’s not, but it’s still shitty to not make sure everyone is OK.

3 on 1 doesn’t mean they were all giving him a pasting.

not coming forward, not have tried to stop their mate at the time, not having walked/cycled off whenever the initial interaction happened, not reporting to the police straight after could all be used to build a circumstantial case that the three were acting together in a Joint Enterprise – so if I was one of the other two I’d be thinking very carefully about my loyalties and having a chat with a defence lawyer to put forward my side before someone else does!

Whatever the rights or wrongs of whatever happened I would be looking at finding new riding buddies. It didn’t sound like a fun bike ride to me.

All three are in the poo poo and deserve what they get. Pasting someone is not OK in 99.9% of circumstances.

It’s Yorkshire. What are expecting? Civilisation?

With the publicity this is getting in the media, mtb forums and (I’m guessing) social media, I suspect they’ll be identified soon enough.  I would imagine they are a little worried.  Good.

Bloke already on his arse and posing no threat gets punched repeatedly , and hard enough do that kind of damage. Doesn’t matter if the victim was angry and mouthing off about their trespassing, there’s no excuse. If his mates don’t turn him in, they’re almost as bad.

“robertajobb
Full Member
It’s Yorkshire. What are expecting?”

A pleasant hello and a smile is the usual.

I’m am in no way condoning or justifying violence.

I suspect the victim got a bit peachy, shouty at the blokes. Most riders would shout back/ignore and carry on with the ride.

One of these three riders had/has anger issues and resorted to violence. Unacceptable.

*****************************************

Now a Poopy anecdote as to why we won’t know what happened till we actually know, including me.

20 years back a bloke as old as the victim here got walloped in a road my now ex lived in. The guy was an ex pub landlord and had a bit of a “reputation” that meant I tended to avoid him. Anyway, the guy and his wife lived at the end of the dead end street and he had a driveway entering into the street which some idiots occasionally thought was ok to park across with their cars. A totally dick move.

One day I’m sitting outside with my ex on a summers day and sure enough a car parks and blocks the “old” guys drive. Driver saunters off to another house in the road and goes in.

Old guy comes out fuming (I can see why) but decided to escalate. He goes to the guys vehicle and breaks off both wing mirrors and takes them in his garden and props them up at the front wall to his bungalow. Obviously wanting them to be seen.

A bit later dick car driver guy returns to his car and is not happy. Old guy comes out and confronts him at the entrance to his drive. Both start shouting, old guy denied ripping mirrors off on a “you you can see them by my door in my garden but I just picked them up, prove I didn’t.” sort way. Said with enough sarcasm to make sure dick car driver knew for sure who did it. Shouting continues and then the old guy threw a punch.

Then things go a bit bullet time. The punch misses, dick car owner automatically responds and lands 2 punches straight after the other. Old guy falls flat on his arse. Car driver shouts some more abuse and gets in car and drives off.

Old guy gets up and his wife was obviously watching from indoors as she rushed out. They go indoors then he comes out a bit later and loudly calls me to come over. He has a bloody lip and a bruised cheek bone. I’m no doc so no idea if that’s all.

He gets a bit shouty at me as apparently I know the guy. I didn’t. He says he is going to call the police and he says he expects me to tell the police what I saw. I replied, “ok, I saw a bloke block your drive, you ripped his mirrors off then threw a punch at him and he threw 2 punches back at you.”

Old guy calls me a member of the banking fraternity then storms of indoors.

You just don’t know till you know but being “old” is no guarantee that a guy won’t get punchy.

Speculation central in here tonight so I might as well lob a controversy grenade in for the lolz. Small man with a crap ginger beard and no dress sense. No wonder he’s an angry ball of rage.

5ft 6inch… attacked by a dwarf the poor fella.

no dress sense

Well thats normal for MTBers, so im not sure what can be inferred from that.

Yellow bike though 😕

Yellow bike though 😕

Yep, that’s the real crime here.

Unless the old boy attacked the guy(s) with a weapon, I’m struggling to see any rational argument that a pasting like that is proportionate.

Also finding it hard to believe a guy on his own would attack three blokes with much less than a firearm.

Sadly, I think our ‘community’ has been let down here.

And one thing for absolute certain – no good will come of this for mountain biking.

And one thing for absolute certain – no good will come of this for mountain biking.

+1

I’m hoping the offender was an e-biker so I can disown him

relapsed_mandalorian, I wasn’t trying to hurt your feelings. I’m disgusted by your attitude but I fully understand that you don’t care.

I’m hoping the offender was an e-biker so I can disown him

That’s a distinction that’s only relevant to some cyclists im afraid. The public just see “bike”.☹️

I’m disgusted by your attitude but I fully understand that you don’t care

No doubt, it seems you spend most of your time clutching pearls up there in your middle class ivory tower.

Sleep tight princess.

I sense a beautiful relationship blossoming between Mando and the Captain.

I sense a beautiful relationship blossoming between Mando and the Captain.

I doubt he’d sully himself with the likes of me. He’s far too fine a specimen of a human.

I’ve had older folk square up to me in the past because they thought they could challenge me when I wasn’t doing anything wrong other than ride my bike. It would be so easy to respond in an angry way and it then escalate into handbags at dawn, I generally am quite polite and move on.

Acces laws are much better up here but it doesn’t stop people trying to tell you off when doing something you’re legally allowed to do.

You should be able to have a conversation (even a heated one) with someone without resorting to violence.

I hope the old guy heals up and doesn’t have any lasting injuries.

Small man with a crap ginger beard and no dress sense. No wonder he’s an angry ball of rage.

I’d just like to point out my ginger beard is not ‘a bit of a ginger beard’.  It’s glorious.

Also, my bike is lime green, not yellow.

We trust you Bruce. 👍😁

I’ll put a fiver on the yellow bike being a Santa Cruz. Possibly in size XS for an accumulator.

Stupid access laws lead stupid people to do stupid things.

I can only assume that the guy criticised their choice of tyres.

I’ll put a fiver on the yellow bike being a Santa Cruz. Possibly in size XS for an accumulator.

Nukeproof Megawatt, shurely?  He’d just had to lift it over a set of stiles, by the looks of it, which can’t have improved his mood.

Stupid access laws lead stupid people to do stupid things.

unbelievable that you would try to blame this on access laws.

Stupid access laws lead stupid people to do stupid things.

IME, stupid people especially those with anger issues, don’t need that ‘excuse’.

I had an old boy about the same age as the chap who’s been assaulted try to “just take a photo” of me by swinging the camera which was on a lanyard around his wrist at my face. I’d didn’t fight back, (we’d been having a ‘frank exchange of views’ up until that point)  I’m not the punchy sort, but he drew blood where it hit my nose.  He thought where I was riding was a footpath. It wasn’t, it wasn’t an anything, just a nothing trail through the woods, and he was fed up with mountain bikers enjoying the country side in a different way to him.

I left him to it, he seemed like a wee ball of anger raging at anyone and everything, and I could hear him effing and jeffing at me until I was out of earshot. If I’m honest, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he got his lights punched out, he was a total arsehole regardless of the fact he was at least in his sixties or maybe even early seventies.

unbelievable that you would try to blame this on access laws.

Indeed. There is a disturbing undercurrent on this thread.

 I’m not the punchy sort, but he drew blood where it hit my nose.

I’m not the punchy sort either but I may have been inclined to make an exception for this.

Have found what I think is the track in question and there are obvious signs that other people have had run-ins with a farmer along it. None of which excuses any violence towards him.

I’m sure police have already looked at Strava, there is one ride along the FP recorded on the day in question, perhaps this guy may have encountered the group of thugs at some point on his loop and can help with identification.

Genuinely I was so surprised, it didn’t even occur to me. I just thought “I’m not having this” and rode away, it was only later after I’d stopped shaking with adrenaline, anger, fear – all those things, that I realised I could have fought back.

What’s incorrect about the phrase “illegally riding a footpath”?

Stupid access laws lead stupid people to do stupid things.

Not going to blame the access laws but the issue will only get worse as Forest holiday lodges proliferate. The guy’s house is in the middle of an FE forestry land area, and it also has a forest lodges site just up the road. Thats not to say those three riders have anything to do with the lodges, but I think its increasing the chances for problems in our forests.

He’s got bridleways, FP and forest road in all directions. People will be out riding their bikes here there and everywhere. I sympathise with the issue he faces (assuming it is his right to request no cyclists – we’ve all met ‘landowners’ who either don’t own the land they’re trying to enforce rules on or want to ignore the legal rights of others on land they do own) but its only going to get worse unless something changes with how our forestry land is being newly commercialised I fear. There’s plenty of people round my way living in ex-forestry cottages facing FH camps in their back yards who are quite worried about the impact it will have on the forests – often sensibly in my opinion.

cynic-al

Free Member

What’s incorrect about the phrase “illegally riding a footpath”

You’re not going to be arrested by the police and prosecuted for riding a bike in a footpath. It’s trespass though, which is a civil offence, the landowner can ask you to leave but that’s about it.

IANAL though but I seem to remember you were or are cynic-al, so maybe I have misunderstood the rules.

“What’s incorrect about the phrase “illegally riding a footpath”?”

There’s no right to ride on a footpath but that doesn’t make it illegal.

If the landowner is ok with riding then it’s fine, perfectly legal.  If the landowner doesn’t want anyone riding but doesn’t inform them, it’s simple tresspass, this is a civil offence only, technically illegal but impractical to prosecute.  If however the land owner makes their wishes known and the rider does not comply it becomes aggrivated tresspass, only then does it become an offence that can be prosecuted.

This is between the person riding and the landowner (or their autherised rep) only, so when a random rambler says it’s illegal ride on a footpath they are wrong, it’s not that simple.

In this case, if there’s a sign saying no riding, the victim is the landowner and the path doesn’t have a legal right of access for bikes then the riders are absolutely in the wrong even before commiting assault.

‘Illegal’ just means ‘contrary to law’. It doesn’t define whether that is civil or criminal law. Using it doesn’t automatically mean you’re talking about a criminal offence, let alone an arrestable one.

^^^ Harry Tuttle has it. Well said.