Could this lead to tougher tests for older drivers

 if the driver doesn’t want to engage or give up of their own accord

They don’t all have Hondas y’know.

Some drive Toyotas.

It’s never going to happen. Old people vote.

On the point about younger drivers, the inquiry that reported in Wales last week on the deaths of those 4 lads in Eryri raised a graduated driving license as a possibility. That along with a restricted class of vehicle for some drivers may help with issues around young people, jobs, rural areas, reintroducing banned drivers to the roads….etc

Always tough reading stories like these – whether it’s young or old drivers involved.  Hits home a bit at the moment as I’ve got a 17yo son who passed his test in July and an 87yo Dad who was issued his licence as part of his national service in the 50s without ever passing an actual test.  17yo has an insurance issued black box on his Mini which keeps the level of teenage kicks down and helps me sleep at night.  My Dad is coming out of hospital this week after being in for a month – he fell down the stairs at home and has smashed up his pelvis, a couple of ribs and two vertebrae.  He’s managing to get up and move now with extreme difficulty but told me that he’ll be driving again as soon as he can……..  More worry.

My dad got his licence whilst in the army.  He always said there was no test but I guess there may have been decent observation (IIRR, his licence allowed him to drive all sorts of vehicles, inc tracked)

(If he were alive now he’d be coming up for 100)

I think everyone should retest every ten years, yes it would be a pain in the ass, but it would go someway to address poor habits / keep the roads safer

I think my departed grandad never even had a test he was in his 90s when he finally stopped driving and that was because he couldn’t lift his foot of the clutch, not that he was a real liability on the road

Raising the minimum age for a driving licence would… remove the most accident-prone drivers.

But are they the most accident-prone because they are young, or because they’re inexperienced? If the former then sure, if the latter then it won’t make a fig of difference. The stats I’ve seen state “first year of driving” rather than absolute age.

Pedal error commonly occurs when vehicles are traveling at low speeds, such as while parking.

I’ve owned an automatic but I never will again – lovely to drive, but I fear the above. ^^^^

My uncles haven’t sat a test but they are in Tipperary. They do occasionally drive in the UK though.

I think everyone should retest every ten years, yes it would be a pain in the ass, but it would go someway to address poor habits / keep the roads safer

Yep – it’s one of those things that could be brought in in (eg) 2028 and then just rolled upwards so it wouldn’t affect anyone currently driving now but it’d become a thing in due course. It’d also give the industry time to scale up to the point (in 2038) when they have to start full retesting.

In reality nothing is going to change in terms of practical driving tests. Currently DVSA are struggling to keep up with demand. My wife is on a waiting list to get a driving test slot. I can’t see the government suddenly doubling the funding for this in an era when they are trying to cut spending.

The government is already pro autonomous vehicles so they will be hoping to do away with the requirement for driving tests in the future. It’s probably not that far off.

The government is already pro autonomous vehicles so they will be hoping to do away with the requirement for driving tests in the future. It’s probably not that far off.

Even if they were available today, it will take at least a generation to ween us off normal cars be they electric/petrol/diesel etc  This is not going to happen any time soon

It wouldn’t hurt if we all had to refresher training/tests every 10 years or so

Thread could have ended there – it’s a competency issue not an age issue. Helping my kids learn to drive in recent years was educational for me too.

Derbyshire County Council run a scheme where drivers over 50 can have an assessment and get tips and pointers. I suspect those who really need it don’t sign up to it

I think everyone should retest every ten years, yes it would be a pain in the ass, but it would go someway to address poor habits / keep the roads safer

I think it might reduce the number of drivers, but I doubt it’d improve quality much.

Quantity because lots of people don’t drive at various times of their life (for example at Uni, or if they live somewhere with transport links), and once in that situation they may not bother renewing their test, and then it becomes self fulfilling they’ll they’ll move to places with transport links, etc.

Quality because the evidence doesn’t show that those who’ve recently passed their test are any better (statistically they’re the worst).  I suspect that most people 25-60 could put their phone down, stop at amber traffic lights and stick to the speed limits for 45min once a decade. The question is about removing those people from the road who may actually be a danger to others through no fault of their own.

Talking about young people is a red herring. There might be other things that can and should be done to improve those statistics.  For example black boxes are now a common thing that didn’t exist even when i took my test, and presumably work.  Occupancy limits and curfews, I think would need careful evidence based consideration to make sure you weren’t just encouraging even more car’s onto the road (e.g. that example in the news, would you just have had 4 kids racing each other, or 4x more traffic in and out of Collage?  But we’re looking specifically at that exponential increase at the other end of the curve.

Cognitive impairment tests or medical tests don’t sound as if they are something that DVSA exemainers need to be involved in. Suspect a network of private clinics would spring up around it once a legal requirement was in place.  How do medicals for HGV and Pilots work?

Been great riding to work without the psychotic school run parents.

@gwaelod
My grandfather got his licence without a test,
I’m pretty sure he said it was a matter of weeks after he got it that the test was introduced. He was born april 1918.
So anyone still driving (edit: before the test was actually introduced) must be 106+.
That must be a pretty small number.
My grandfather only had one accident in 75 years of driving (a tiny scrape while reversing in a vehicle showroom) and he decided to stop driving because he was aware that he couldn’t feel the pedals properly under his feet.

HGV’s require a medical at any GP surgery, is not specialist. Test blood pressure,eye sight, urine for diabetes and a questionaire about known medical conditions. Thanks that’ll be £150.

I guess the doctor could be doing undeclared observations for cognitive decline etc?

On the point about younger drivers, the inquiry that reported in Wales last week on the deaths of those 4 lads in Eryri raised a graduated driving license as a possibility. That along with a restricted class of vehicle for some drivers may help with issues around young people, jobs, rural areas, reintroducing banned drivers to the roads….etc

I can see the justification for the minimum 6 months of learning (although with the costs these days, its probably a case that people will do the same number of hours, just more spread out), and the no young passengers type rules… but restricted vehicles? already basically acounted for in insurance for all but the very few with very wealthy parents.

Those 4 boys in Wales were in a ford fiesta. Ok a slim chance it might have been an RS but it was almost certainly a base model 1.2 eco-boost. with 350kg+ of teenager weighing it down. I’m not sure how you restrict someone much more than that…

Does anyone think the rapid acceleration of ev’s is going to cause more of a problem for people

Not for those who switch it off. The Renault Zoe, for example,  in eco will accelerate much like a ICE car. However those who want to use it to get out of a junction quickly or squeeze into a space on a roundabout will take advantage of the rapid acceleration and reduce the reaction time for other users.

I think it will be less pedal error and more lack of patience of some drivers of whatever age.

Those 4 boys in Wales were in a ford fiesta. Ok a slim chance it might have been an RS but it was almost certainly a base model 1.2 eco-boost. with 350kg+ of teenager weighing it down. I’m not sure how you restrict someone much more than that…

In Northern Ireland they’re restricted to 45mph and have to display R plates.

Everyone should retake the test every 10 yrs or less after passing, then every 5 years after 70yrs old. imho.

I don’t think retaking a test would stop a lot of crap drivers as they would just do the study to ensure they passed and then continue driving as badly as they did before.  It is not because they don’t know what they should do, it is because they don’t care.

Most people are going to know what the speed limits are on the road they are driving on but don’t stick to them most of the time.  Guess what they would do if in a a test, do you think they would ensure they stick to them?

I can’t see the government suddenly doubling the funding for this in an era when they are trying to cut spending.

What if testing was run at a profit?

The graph posted by @scotroutes seems to show driver deaths – anyone got a graph of others harmed and/or damage to property?

I’m all for both younger drivers having a progressive entitlement for a couple of years after passing a test – other countries have things like R plates, or engine and speed restrictions, or not driving at night or with passengers.

I’m also up for a withdrawal of driving license for anyone who is not fit to drive medically, through lack of skills or attitude. This could be old age, or could be after an accident, or a host of other reasons..

How we implement and afford this, not a clue. But as it stands it seems that a minority of drivers cause significant loss and damage anyway, so why not take those costs and somehow a reduction is ‘reinvested’ in driver standards and stricter licensing?

I think it would help with the elderly..  As if they become incompetent in terms of reaction time, spacial awareness etc and not nessesarily realise it.

If they still have enough function to pass a practical and theory test then you have to assume a basic level of competence.

It’s not a ‘catch all’ by any means but would surely result in harm reduction.

It won’t account for people who know how to drive but just drive like bum holes anyway.. But that goes for all ages, it’s absolutely not exclusive to the elderly or sub 25yo male drivers.

My nan bless her hung her keys up about 2 yrs before she died as she realise she was getting a bit sketchy.. But some people don’t like to admit it or don’t realise how much they’ve lost the motor skills (no pun intended).

Surely an online speed awareness type course shouldn’t be impossible to introduce as a mandatory thing at minimal cost.

I’m not sure how you restrict someone much more than that…

Its more a “graduated driving licence” rather than vehicle capability restriction. Main proposals seem to be restrictions on driving at night and not being allowed to carry passengers of a similar age.

Plus some driving offences resulting in immediate disqualification (vs the three points or similar currently).

Its more a “graduated driving licence” rather than vehicle capability restriction. Main proposals seem to be restrictions on driving at night and not being allowed to carry passengers of a similar age.

It’s the enforcement that would be the obvious issue.  Black box in car is automated. Checking that someone who’s been driving less than X years/is under X age/ Isn’t carrying passengers needs an awful lot of random stops.  if it’s ‘under 21’ you’re basically on a ‘challenge 25’ in the pub type thing – you’d have to pull over everyone who looked under 25.  Which isn’t easy to tell visually, at night.  How do you spot passengers if they’re going to duck when they see a police car or be hidden in the back behind tinted windows?

General ‘car brain’ is that anythings legal as long as you don’t get caught – we’ve not dealt (really) with drink/drug driving, speeding, mobile phone use – people do all that because the chance of getting caught remains tiny.  If I walk past a queue of traffic in London you can guarantee at least 10% of drivers are tapping away at their phones.  Last week saw a woman on her phone, with her open laptop on the armrest and a small child jumping up and down on the passenger seat.

Surely an online speed awareness type course shouldn’t be impossible to introduce as a mandatory thing at minimal cost.

“Hey daughter, please can you undertake this little test for me?”

Main proposals seem to be restrictions on driving at night

Which is a bit shitty for those working in the hospitality sector.

“Hey daughter, please can you undertake this little test for me?”

They can attend in person like a theory test. Whether they can drive home afterwards of course…..

The inquiry heard that before the crash, Mrs Duncan had cancelled her insurance because she did not want to pay the money for it as she felt she did not use her car enough.

She was already driving illegally so not sure how there been a ‘test’ would’ve stopped her driving.

Main proposals seem to be restrictions on driving at night

So when the clocks change at the weekend folk here (Scotland) would have to be off the road by 4:30pm, and 3:30pm come December yet could drive until 11pm in June?

I really don’t think either of my parents should be driving and some of the most dangerous driving I see is not as a result of going to fast it is the lack of awareness of what’s going on around them, unable to respond quickly and not turn their heads to look. This doesn’t just affect older people, I accept.

Surely an online speed awareness type course shouldn’t be impossible to introduce as a mandatory thing at minimal cost.

I tried to unlock a Lime e-bike late one night in London and the phone app made me take a reactions test to prove I wasn’t drunk or tired. Before I can hire a Lime e-scooter, my driving licence has to be uploaded to the app and verified. It’ll run a geo-fenced speed restriction in certain areas too.

The levels that CAN be put in place are incredible but if you mention the idea of the car running a reactions test on you or even having an onboard breathalyser, everyone would be up in arms about it.

But for renting at e-bike (restricted to 15mph) at 10pm, you have to jump through all these hoops.

Cars are all integrated / connected these days, it’d be easy to use the bloody massive infotainment system that’s built into most of them to run through 30s of testing every once in a while.

Cars are all integrated / connected these days, it’d be easy to use the bloody massive infotainment system that’s built into most of them to run through 30s of testing every once in a while.

I’m imagining with all the mood lighting in new Audi’s it’d look like an episode of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire as the lights house lights go down

In Northern Ireland they’re restricted to 45mph and have to display R plates.

“However, both rear tyres were only half the required inflated pressure for carrying four people.
Mr Thompson said, in his view, Hugo had driven into a bend on the road too fast, causing the vehicle to come off the road.

He said he calculated the maximum theoretical speed around the bend was 38mph.

But he added: “Having driven the bend myself the fastest speed I felt comfortable negotiating the bend was 26mph.”

He said the Ford Fiesta had entered that bend at a speed that was in excess of the limit to negotiate it, even though that may well have been below the road’s 60mph limit.

Mr Thompson said the actions of Hugo Morris needed to be considered in the accident.

While it had been raining heavily, with leaf cover on the road, the investigator said he did not consider weather conditions played a role in the collision.”

Not sure a 45mph limit (assume thats a legal limit relying on an officer clocking them, not a physical restriction on the car?) and a sticker would help here

I really don’t think either of my parents should be driving and some of the most dangerous driving I see is not as a result of going to fast it is the lack of awareness of what’s going on around them, unable to respond quickly and not turn their heads to look. This doesn’t just affect older people, I accept.

And if they have an accident, as this woman did, and kill someone how will you feel about not stopping them?

So when the clocks change at the weekend folk here (Scotland) would have to be off the road by 4:30pm

Nope. Its night in the colloquial sense vs the strict definition of sundown to up. Proposal is something like 11pm to 5am. Think the logic is that the number of young driver accidents during that period is higher than the baseline but could be wrong. It may also overlap with the other one about not having passengers eg drunk mates egging you on.

We had the usual “pedal slips” and other cars paint on my MIL car until we took the keys away about 2 years ago. She hates us for it but I have no doubt she was becoming a real risk to other people, and if she had injured somebody I would have felt accountable.

I think we should retest every 5 years over around age 55/60 (I am 60 BTW)