“Complete toilet mechanism change” cost

What @timba says.

Also if your dad is lucky enough to be in Lochaber (or Livingston, down regularly) I’ll have a look for him foc.

The time a job like this takes depends on what you encounter. I did a toilet which had the same problem when I moved in my house last Summer and never done one before. As everyone has said none of the steps was particularly difficult but it was a 1960s toilet untouched since installed in 1961 in a very hard water area. It had no isolator for water so that was a PIA to drain the tank as the outflow stopcock was stuck fast. The toilet siphon was a classy ceramic job (never seen that before) and the bolts had rotted and it had just fallen off. It was non-standard size to replace and the rubber washer was non-standard as well. The heads of the cistern screws were rotten and I had to cut them off with a Dremel without breaking it as I wanted to keep the funky two-tone toilet. It took a good while to search for the parts, chip 60 years of deposits off, fit a stop cock and then fit and adjust everything. Took a whole day to sort out. Here in London that would be £250-300 just for labour. After the storm Eunice the neighbours organised a roofer to check the flat roofs and they didn’t blink at paying £90 per roof! I passed up that one.

I’m in the minority here – I don’t think its a totally ridiculous price:

1. A visit to see what the problem is, diagnose and tell you the cost. Don’t forget he has to get there so its not just the time inside the house.
2. A visit to plumbers merchant to pick up the parts
3. A visit to the house, to remove the old part [as others said it can be easy or it can be a PITA, and sometime you discover the part you bought isn’t the right one or you break something you didn’t expect to replace]
4. Fit the new part, test and make sure there’s no leaks etc.
5. Be willing to come back if the householder calls you up and says it leaks/breaks in the next few weeks.
6. Issue an invoice, possibly chase to get it paid (or perhaps pay credit card fees!)
7. Pay the plumbers merchant, and other admin – like your vat return that DIYers don’t have to spend time on.

Certainly, it could be done cheaper, perhaps for half the price, but it is irrelevant if it’s a £15 part and 1/2 hr to fit if it goes easily but if you are 45 minutes from where the plumber is and the plumbers merchant is and it’s a rusty mess – then its a 1/2 day bloody job.

Toilet mechanisms are about £25 or less at B&Q. I’ve changed two. It’s really easy, but you need a bit of common sense and you may need some plumber’s putty. Getting the push-rods the right height from the button to the mechanism was a bit fiddly.

Dunno about how plumbers run their businesses but it does sound steep.

Haha thanks – he’s based in Lincolnshire, not far from Grantham. I’ve asked another plumber to come take a look.

I’m in the minority here – I don’t think its a totally ridiculous price:

So we have:

1. A visit to diagnose a dripping cistern which is likely just to be a washer or something else trivial.
2. A visit to plumbers merchant to buy a washer.
3. A visit to the house to fit a washer.
4. Still fitting a washer.
5. A return visit because you’ve done a sub-par job.
6. Ask for money like every other trade in existence.
7. Pay for a washer along with everything else you’ve bought that month.

Sure, of course it could turn into a complicated crappy job costing hundreds or more. But a lot of that process sounds somewhat redundant to me. Why would a plumber turn up to that sort of call-out without a box of cheap spares in the van?

In our previous house we have a toilet mech break in the bathroom. The idiot previous owner put the surface on the side above the toilet and tiled / mirror on top of it. No chance of getting it in to repair. Hence we had to drill a hole in the toilet cover to at least getting it working. Mrs then decided it was a good excuse to replace the bathroom. Thousands later the toilet was working. A way to get into the toilet originally and the part …. £4.99

Its only taking the piss if you can do it yourself.

This.

Can any of those folk who reckon it’ll take under an hour and £20 of bits come down my house and sort mine out.

Oh, and it’s older than me, internally it looks nothing like any of the replacement options in B&Q and the isolation valve is stuck.

For the quoted £200 budget, here you go:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/toilet-to-go-close-coupled-toilet-dual-flush-6-4ltr/580JK

A visit to diagnose a dripping cistern which is likely just to be a washer or something else trivial.

excellent fault finding there.   without actually seeing the cistern how old obsolete it might be neigh on impossible to get parts for 🙄  Plumber might actually be doing them a favour of changing the old parts for new. Once you start dismantling old parts the likelihood of something else going wrong with it are high

Have you ever tried to fix a concealed cistern? I can assure you there is nothing trivial about getting rusted / stuck parts free.

I’m surprised that the amount people here that work for minimum wage and think no one has a right to earn money, for feed their family and have nice things .

If its that easy why aren’t all the experts here plumbers working for £10hr   I’m with poly on this one

200 is pretty reasonable, if it’s not – just do it yourself or fit a whole new toilet. Not really sure what the argument is? If you wouldn’t pay that – do it yourself ?!

A lot goes into running a business including all the above logistics. Whether they have the parts on the van or not shouldn’t affect the price. They still have to stock the parts

It’s like saying someone with a technical skill that can fix it in 5 minutes shouldn’t charge a hundred quid + vat. It’s a hundred quid of value, the time taken is completely irrelevant. (an example).

What all you employed people are failing to recognise is that YOUR employers are selling what you do at large markups. Maybe they should stop doing that, and cut your salary down to 20k a year?

So we have:

1. A visit to diagnose a dripping cistern which is likely just to be a washer or something else trivial.
2. A visit to plumbers merchant to buy a washer.
3. A visit to the house to fit a washer.
4. Still fitting a washer.
5. A return visit because you’ve done a sub-par job.
6. Ask for money like every other trade in existence.
7. Pay for a washer along with everything else you’ve bought that month.

Sure, of course it could turn into a complicated crappy job costing hundreds or more. But a lot of that process sounds somewhat redundant to me. Why would a plumber turn up to that sort of call-out without a box of cheap spares in the van?

You do IT shit don’t you?
Could you come over and take a look at my computer?
Oh the hard disk is broken. Can you replace it?
Oh you don’t carry spare disks that size on your van?
So you can come back later in the week to fix it, for how much?
Now that I know whats wrong I’ll just ask on the internet if your price is fair.
Well actually someone on the internet says just to check the cable because they’ve had them pull out. And someone else says you can get a new disk on Amazon next day for £30.

I can see how it costs a fair bit to do these kinds of jobs, they can end up a pain in the arse so you need to make it worth your while.

I just wouldn’t pay though it and would do it my self, but i’ve been brought up that way. I know others who wouldn’t dream of doing a job like this though as it either scares them that they’ll **** it up or they just don’t like DIY.

£200 seems a bit ott, but then I did argue with a plumber about 4 years ago who was charging £150 for the same job in the office i worked in at the time (Leeds). So maybe £200 is about right nowadays. He managed to string that out for a good half day though. Not sure if he was trying to prove a point but don’t think he made too much on that job….

Done a few over the years. It’s no biggie when there’s an isolator valve.

However, when you can’t find an isolator as per in our upstairs en suite,
– and the main tap is in the basement four flights of stairs down a house with high ceilings.
– And you’re trying to do the job on your own because shouting/phoning down to your wife is not a quick route to happiness, in fact it’s a route elsewhere.
– And you think you’re being clever by just replacing the slow flowing diaphragm washer.
– And the en suite gets mains pressure, which is v high pressure even at the top of the house.
– And actually the replacement just isn’t quite right.

When these things occur together, it’s surprising just how much water can flow out of the ensuite and across the bedroom and under the floating solid wood floor (causing it to buckle slightly over the next couple of days), before you can sprint the four flights back down again to turn off the water, before putting the old washer beck again and putting the tools away. And on reflection think that the £200 may be literally £198 more than the job was going to cost, but possibly worth it.

If anyone’s interested I can tell you how I know all these things.

(p.s. I’ve a new complete mechanism waiting to be installed, exactly the same as I’ve replaced in our basement toilet in a half hour trouble free job. I just can’t nerve myself to do it yet.)

when you are working as a self employed tradesman you are lucky if you have 60% or so of your time working being billable.  You also have large fixed overheads.  to me £200 is expensive but not absurd.  Maybe its an ” I don’t really want this job so quote high” price – so either he does not get the job or if he does its well worth his while

excellent fault finding there.

You’re missing the point. Sure, it could cost that much and possibly more. But rocking up without basic parts and expecting the customer to foot the bill whilst you fanny about at a plumber’s merchant is somewhere between stupid and fraudulent. Why would a plumber even turn up on site to fix a running bog without a bag of washers and a replacement flush mechanism? Like they’re never going to need those things ever again.

You do IT shit don’t you?

I’m no longer in IT and I have never done “IT shit.”

Could you come over and take a look at my computer?

For £200? Sure.

Oh the hard disk is broken. Can you replace it?

Sure. Five minute job.

Oh you don’t carry spare disks that size on your van?

If I were a mobile IT technician I’d carry a boxful because a mechanical disk is likely the single biggest point of failure due to its moving parts. Daft not to.

So you can come back later in the week to fix it, for how much?

Nah, I’ll just do it now.

Now that I know whats wrong I’ll just ask on the internet if your price is fair. Well actually someone on the internet says just to check the cable because they’ve had them pull out. And someone else says you can get a new disk on Amazon next day for £30.

Do that then. £30 sounds about right. Off you go.

But rocking up without basic parts and expecting the customer to foot the bill whilst you fanny about at a plumber’s merchant is somewhere between stupid and fraudulent. Why would a plumber even turn up on site to fix a running bog without a bag of washers and a replacement flush mechanism?

which of these  https://www.screwfix.com/c/heating-plumbing/toilet-spares/cat831530#category=cat831618 flush valves fits then or should the plumber carry +50 different types at  £800+ of flush valves just in case one fits? Nobody would do that would they.

Best practice is look at job see what you need and buy accordingly. Not to carry £00’s of stock/parts that may never ever be used. Yes they’ll maybe have the odd bit in van but in reality I’d expect them to go and get the part.

Oh the hard disk is broken. Can you replace it?

Sure. Five minute job.

Could you come over and take a look at my computer?

For £200? Sure.

The irony

Quoting £200 sounds reasonable to me if the guy is busy.

Yes, it might be a five minute job, but the chances of ticking off more than two ‘five minute’ jobs in a day is rare ime.

Part of the problem as a self employed tradie, is that it’s a dog eat dog world and this fosters an attitude of needing to make money while the going is good. There’s no safety net.

As an example, there was a thread here a few days ago about an IVF and Covid situation where the consensus was that the teacher should take several months off with stress, followed by however long maternity is these days. So maybe a year off on full or near full pay?
This is a good thing and I’d agree with the consensus.

I just wish there was something similar available to self employed people. PPI is of course available, but decent cover for all eventualities makes it realistically a non starter.
The minute you aren’t working is when income stops.

£200 is daft money.
Two years ago I paid £220 all in for a heating engineer to diagnose a boiler fault, go and buy a new fan unit and carry out the repair, the same day.
Say £250 for inflation. Can’t remember how big a chunk of bill the fan unit was, but more than a bog flush I’d say.

This is in Berkshire, so the expensive South.

I’ve had to replace the diaphragm in our flush mechanism many times. Also needed to remove limescale from the mechanism.
I bought a new mechanism years ago, but never bothered to fit it, as it’s always the diaphragm.

There are lots of different flush mechanisms, inlet valves and wc set ups. Expecting a plumber to carry bits for all of them is daft.

£200 says to me he either doesn’t want the job or there’s a fair bit to it over and above simple maintenance.

Take the lid of the cistern, take some pics, post them up here.

If you manage to post a pic successfully, changing the flush mech will be piss easy.

Forgot to add, if our bog doesn’t stop flushing, the float is catching on side and not rising with the water level. But yeah they’re all different.

Daft yes, but i sell boxes of washers and o rings as these are a major cause of failure.
Most of us would change old for new as we dont have 101 washers in a carrycase or the knowledge and tricks of the trade that the pros have
White wine vinaiger can fix flush valve seats for example
There’s a fluid master valve and filler that fits lots of cisterns.
Still think this job is easily doable by anyone half sensible

which of these… flush valves fits then or should the plumber carry +50 different types

How many don’t?

With guidance from this parish I replaced my own in a 40+ year old throne with a modern component a little while back, there weren’t many actual variables. I could equally list fifty hard drives and go “which one fits your PC then?”

The irony

The point.

…our bog doesn’t stop flushing…

It’s not so much flushing, more like overflowing. Years ago it would have poured down a pipe and into the backyard, now it’s all done internally

Not many of here a run a business I guess and quote is for replacement of all the internals not the diaphragm. £200 for a job which will likely take half a day in total.

Forget about the cost of the parts but ask yourself what’s a working toilet worth to me? That’s how value works.

I’ve changed out 3 toilet flush systems. The modern bog where it was a like for like with the same part – very easy. The other two were old toilets with now non standard parts. Both absolute PITAs just to find suitable parts and washers, then you need to remove the cistern from the wall and bog with ancient imperial sized fixings that have been damp for 40 years. This is all while hugging a 40 year old bog and discovering deposits of congealed piss in crevices as you disassemble it. Meanwhile, there is the isolating water and draining stuff which is either easy or a nightmare. Also worth remembering that anything left leaking will wreck your house. Anything overtightened or dropped will smash something expensive.

I think tool and consumables wise it needed a massive wrench, medium sized wrench and small wrench. Dremel, drill, screwdrivers, putty, tape, replacement isolation valves etc

In short, if it’s a manky old bog £200 seems reasonable unless you value your time at £2.50/hr in which case DIY.

Forget about the cost of the parts but ask yourself what’s a working toilet worth to me? That’s how value works.

Conversely, ramping up the price because “what are you going to do otherwise mate, shit in the bath?” isn’t my idea of “value”.

At the end of the day the OP asked “is this a reasonable cost” and the answer is “it might be.” It could be that the entire system is donald ducked and needs replacing, there could be a dozen other complications we don’t know about and actually £200 is a bargain; or equally it could be that the plumber is a total charlatan and has seen a soft mark whom he might be able to take for £200 for ten minutes’ work. We just don’t know. So the only reliable advice here really is “get a second opinion.”

cougar – as has been explained its not ten mins work – its several hours at least

I suppose, if the plumber has other bigger jobs on the go, it’s his lost time on those jobs he has to account for, and like has been said, what if the job is a pig ?

I’ve also changed a mechanism on a concealed toilet in out static caravan, now that was a barsteward of a job and no doubt would have been alot for a trades person to do it. The issue was getting one arms inside the cistern covers to undo fittings, and that’s a cyclist’s skinny arms…

Our loos at home are straight forward, but I suppose you never know how badly some stuff can be fitted previously.

It’s expensive, yes, compared to the price, but if you can’t do it, then you’ve got to suck it up. my sister and BIL pay a fortune for stuff to be fixed, they think it’s a good price – it’s not, but they can’t do it.

cougar – as has been explained its not ten mins work – its several hours at least

Explained by a number of people, none of whom have seen the OP’s plumbing.

All sorted – the 2nd guy came and fixed it there and then for £70. He was there for about an hour or so.

Cheers for advice/help 🙂

Explained by a number of people, none of whom have seen the OP’s plumbing

Neither have you yet you claimed it was something trivial.

A visit to diagnose a dripping cistern which is likely just to be a washer or something else trivial.

😂

I’ve had that. Long time ago though. Got a quote of several hundred, for what was admittedly potentially a real pain in the neck job. Second guy came out, poked around and sucked his teeth for 5 minutes and announced “i *think* i’ve got the parts for this in me van”.
45 minutes and 150 quid lighter (cash in hand) everything was fixed.

The flush mechanism for my bog is about 50-60 quid as well, and a couple of hours to swap. So i’d barely even blink at paying 200 quid to get it changed. Though i’d probably try and fix it myself, as my bank account would likely say no before i did.

Bloody posh bathrooms.

All sorted – the 2nd guy came and fixed it there and then for £70. He was there for about an hour or so.

Get ready for the £70 for an hrs work frothing

Neither have you yet you claimed it was something trivial.

No, I said it was likely to be something trivial. Right there in that quote you, erm, quoted.

All sorted – the 2nd guy came and fixed it there and then for £70. He was there for about an hour or so.

Oh look.

So bad when banks and supermarkets do it but fine when tradesman decides to rip someone off?

He’s not ripping anyone off, he’s quoted a price. The buyer is at liberty to get other quotes or just out right reject that one.

If it seems too expensive just don’t pay it.

He was there for about an hour or so.

Which is 3 hours more than likely out of his day possibly more.

And this is the customer’s problem because…?