Chemtrails???

What are the exhaust fumes like from passenger jets?

@yunki – CO2 and water vapour.

There’s plenty of undesirable* stuff coming out of a jet engine as well.

A few years old, but

In recent years, airplane crashes have killed about a thousand people annually, whereas plane emissions kill about ten thousand people each year, researchers say.
…

Airplane exhaust, like car exhaust, contains a variety of air pollutants, including sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/10/101005-planes-pollution-deaths-science-environment/

EDIT: To be clear, by undesirable, I mean the same stuff you get from any other engine that burns fossil fuels, not mind control stuff!

There’s a bit more than just CO2 though tomkerton!!

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/10/101005-planes-pollution-deaths-science-environment/%5B/url%5D

EDIT: beaten to it 🙂

Drac, given the amount of aviation traffic then surely the skies would constantly be a mass of plane exhaust fumes?

They’re much more visible some days due it atmospherics, we get hardly any around here as the airport is 30 odd miles away and not exactly a busy one.

Yunki, bails – yes indeed. Small amounts of oxides of sulphur and nitrogen. That article you’ve both linked to is really bad science though. It is based on modelling and estimates and dresses up a conclusion based on assumptions.

I’m not trying to say that burning fossil fuels at altitude is good. I’m just trying to point out that Chem trails and the global dimming theory are urban myths and ‘science’ to prove the theories is bad science.

fair enough
I’m just like… ‘eurgh, smog and pollution’
Landing at Guangzhou airport is something else, obvs not aeroplane related but ‘eurgh, smog and pollution’

I’d like to take this opportunity to say I don’t subscribe to the conspiracy theories surrounding chemtrails…

ninfan has a good point:

The whole ‘chemtrails’ thing grew out of Chem and bio warfare research that DID take place in the fifties, with inert agents dispersed by a number of different routes and monitored to see how they would spread.

It was secret at the time, but well documented and all the files are there. However it clearly led to rumours, that idiots are still perpetuating today.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1740210/

Can’t see much need for airborne mind control agents, when we have media so extensively infiltrated by propaganda…

I’ve recently learned of Forum World Features:

Forum World Features was a London based CIA propaganda operation which operated as a professional news service from 1965 to 1975. It was run by the anti-communist crusader, later European Chair of Le Cercle, Brian Crozier.

Forum World Features was part of a world wide CIA propaganda operation overseen by Kermit Roosevelt, the CIA agent who had engineered the overthrow of the democratic government of Iran in 1953.

The Australian born journalist Brian Crozier was appointed chairman of the company. He was a fervant anti-communist who had worked for the Economist and the BBC. Crozier was assisted by John Tusa – later to be the main presenter of BBC Newsnight, then go on to become head of the BBC’s World Service. Tusa, who was reportedly unaware of the CIA connection, resigned after an argument over editorial policy.

Wonder if there are similar outfits still churning out propaganda today?

Perhaps Chemtrail conspiracies are CIA/MI6/KGB/Mossad etc disinformation, to distract us from what they’re really up to?

Another interesting tidbit:

The Langemann Papers (November 1979) quote a planning paper by Brian Crozier about a Cercle complex operation “to affect a change of government in the United Kingdom (accomplished)”. This may be a reference to the success of the “Shield” group which Crozier set up in 1976, probably with the express purpose of getting Margaret Thatcher elected, a year after she was invited to the Bilderberg meeting by Labour’s Dennis Healey.

Ok, water vapour. I was simplifying.

That’s what they’d like you to think!

The last time I saw footage of the Syrian conflict, there were no ‘cross-hatch’ chemtrails despite all the Russian jet fighters, etc.

Maybe the presence of chemtrails in our airspace is evidence of the global ‘elites’ taking global warming seriously.

If London flooded where would they relocate the financial industry to…Macclesfield?

Ey up, we’ve got a live one!

No commercial flights over a war zone, funny that. Recent events in the Ukraine might have a bearing on that, you know, when that commercial flight got shot down? Also they only appear in certain conditions at certain altitudes

I’m pretty sure outside the insurance industry no financial industry bods give a flying **** about global warming -and using fossil fuel burning aeroplanes as a counter measure does seem a bit of an odd move

Macc’s quite nice, and there’s a good local supply of white range rovers and orange faced trophy wives, so I’ll give you that one

Military jets don’t often fly at the high altitudes that civilian passenger jets inhabit. Air is colder higher up so more condensation.

watching the planes leave contrails that seem to expand out and out and out and they’ve ended up covering the sky turning what was a gloriously sunny day into a cloudy day. It was quite weird they were in a grid format and just spread and spread!

What the….?

You’ve noticed that planes make clouds. Well done, yes, they do. Why the F would you then go on to assume that the clouds contain mind control chemicals? Why can’t they just be water condensed from jet exhaust? You know, like your car makes loads of steam on a cold morning. Is that mind control agent too? 🙄

Think about what you’re saying.

I’m a bit tired today but I don’t get the connection here:

Maybe the presence of chemtrails in our airspace is evidence of the global ‘elites’ taking global warming seriously.

Incidentally, the last chemtrails thread is here.

Molgrips, try reading my post properly. At no point did i mention mind control in my post.

Others have jumped to that conclusion. I have only read (briefly) about Chemtrails from the previous post(s) on here,

The last time I saw footage of the Syrian conflict, there were no ‘cross-hatch’ chemtrails despite all the Russian jet fighters, etc.

Right…

So we’ve got the technology to disperse chemicals that can control and subdue the populace and the one place we’re not using them is in war zones??

What do you think they are releasing then, multivitamins?

As an aside, Ferris-Beuller…..why have you swapped the “ue” in “Bueller” for the spelling used in your handle?

Just curious.

For the Chemtrail fans I have some magic beans, PP Gift

Codybrennan, a spelling mistake……or is it something more sinister?? You’ll never know! 😉

You did post this though, Ferris:

The paranoid part of me is starting to wonder!

Don’t. Stop it. It’s ludicrous.

Maybe the presence of chemtrails in our airspace is evidence of the global ‘elites’ taking global warming seriously flying a lot.

Please explain where in that sentence that it eludes to mind control?? I cant see it!!

The chem-trails conspiracy is about mind control, isn’t it? I thought that was the general gist of it. What did you think it was? Are we talking about different things?

Perhaps Chemtrail conspiracies are CIA/MI6/KGB/Mossad etc disinformation, to distract us from what they’re really up to?

I love this! You simply cannot win with these people: “it may all be cobblers, but that’s only to distract us from the REAL conspiracies…”

You tell me.

All i ‘know’ about it is the spraying of chemicals or metals into the atmosphere for one reason or another. Mind control does seem a little far fetched to be frank. These apparently (again from a quick minute on Wikipedia) are identified by the behavior that i witnessed. Some days the contrails seem to disappear right behind the aircraft and others, like this morning, seem to fill the sky rather than evaporate. Whatever it is, it doesn’t look great.

To reiterate my first post ‘I’ve always dismissed it as a paranoid fantasy’.

Still, it’s the cross-hatch pattern that’ puzzles me.

I always remember as a young ‘un, being mesmerised by the vapour trails left by jet planes, but they never spread out.

That article you’ve both linked to is really bad science though. It is based on modelling and estimates

Do you have any idea how much science is based on modelling…

Saw this picture the other day. No more proof needed.

[do people really believe this stuff?]

Drac, given the amount of aviation traffic then surely the skies would constantly be a mass of plane exhaust fumes?

No, they wouldn’t, for very good reasons caused by temperature variations and humidity at different altitudes.
Exactly why you can’t see your breath on warm days.

Still, it’s the cross-hatch pattern that’ puzzles me.

I always remember as a young ‘un, being mesmerised by the vapour trails left by jet planes, but they never spread out.
Why should the cross-hatch pattern puzzle you? Surely you know that aircraft fly north-south, as well as east-west? And all other degrees of the compass, although major routes tend to be east-west/north-south, as you have transatlantic traffic going to the east coast of America and returning, and the long-haul planes flying the Great Circle routes over Greenland and the Pole to LA/SF.
And then there’s all the private and military traffic.

Rockhopper – Member
Military jets don’t often fly at the high altitudes that civilian passenger jets inhabit. Air is colder higher up so more condensation.

Of course they do! You only have to play around with a flight radar app to find jets at altitude leaving contrails that don’t show on the tracking systems, and a pair of binoculars will often show them to be fast jets, and big military transports like C-17’s will cruise at the same altitudes as civilian transport and passenger planes. Even the V-22 Osprey can fly at 25-27,000 feet.
And it’s not just military jets that leave contrails, as anyone who lived through WW2 could point out, probably doing the whole rolly-eye thing at the incredible stupidity of idiots who think that contrails only come from jets, and there must be a conspiracy to explain it.

And then there’s this:

From the book “Flight To Arras” by Antoine de Saint Exupery, written in 1942 about a military mission in 1940:
_______________________
“Are the anti-aircraft firing, Dutertre?”
“I believe they are firing, Captain.”

Dutertre cannot tell. The bursts are too distant and the smoke is blended in with the ground. They cannot hope to bring us down by such vague firing. At thirty three thousand feet we are virtually invulnerable. They are firing in order to gauge our position, and probably also to guide the fighter groups towards us. A fighter group diluted in the sky like invisible dust.

The German on the ground knows us by the pearly white scarf which every plane flying at high altitude trails behind like a bridal veil. The disturbance created by our meteoric flight crystallizes the watery vapor in the atmosphere. We unwind behind us a cirrus of icicles. If the atmospheric conditions are favorable to the formation of clouds, our wake will thicken bit by bit and become an evening cloud over the countryside.

The fighters are guided towards us by their radio, by the bursts on the ground, and by the ostentatious luxury of our white scarf. Nevertheless we swim in an emptiness almost interplanetary. Everything around us and within us is total immobility.”
______________________________
Bold emphasis is mine.

Fighter and Bomber Contails, 1940s