AHH apologies – my whole contribution was actual in response to the user above who said

Part of my work involves visiting clients in their own homes. Should I go without my tools?

I hadn’t clocked that you’d taken up his/her cause.

On the upside, my insult (now regretted) was aimed at them not you!

That’s left me a bit confused now though – what do you do in your ‘out and about’ which requires a knife which would be illegal under the current setup.

“travelling to a job where the most physical you are going to get is counting paperclips (or interfering with the aforementioned tomatoes or cheese).”

And whilst you’re at it how about not insulting me either. Having just unloaded 2 shipping containers full of kayaks I’m now stacking them vertically in the warehouse, each one weighting between 30 and 40kg – so slightly heavier than a paperclip. Just because I have a workplace kitchen doesn’t mean I work in an office either.

How about just not insulting anyone?

I always have a Boker SAK style knife on my car keyring….

Carry it pretty much everywhere..

Just used it to cut up tomatoes…

It’s got a wood saw on it, bottle opener, and screwdriver…

I rarely, if ever, think about using it to stab someone 😘

If I got stopped (can’t think why I would) I’ve little worry I’d get grief for it.

It’s a legal thing, and I’ve reasonable reason for carrying it.

DrP

No just this thread, but a general observation of STW (and the wider internet) is a big proportion of people project their personal circumstances and experiences on to others.

Indeed as in thinking buttering a croissant is essential reason to carry one.

I have always had a SAK Bantam simple <2.5″ folder in my pocket for the last 25 years. Think I am on my third now. Dont think have ever sliced atomato or apple with it.   Dont have it on me if I go out for a pint. Never really worried about it tbh. I wouldn’t have anything heftier on me as no need and stupid to with current legislation.

Indeed as in thinking buttering a croissant is essential reason to carry one.

You have me at a disadvantage, I thought I’d read the whole thread, but I have missed the original croissant comment you keep referencing. On the face of it, it does seem to be a pretty tenuous ‘justification’.  It seems to have become quite significant to you though? How many people claimed that as their use case? 5? 10? Enough to undermine the case of anyone who believes they have a legit reason to occasionally use a knife?

What about chorizo and olives?

And whilst you’re at it how about not insulting me either. Having just unloaded 2 shipping containers full of kayaks I’m now stacking them vertically in the warehouse, each one weighting between 30 and 40kg – so slightly heavier than a paperclip. Just because I have a workplace kitchen doesn’t mean I work in an office either.

Well, with all that manliness on show I reckon you could carry a machete on the tube perfectly legit. Go you. Tomatoes, cheese, maybe even some of Simon’s chorizo, knock yourself out. I’m befuddled by the relevance of a workplace kitchen though. Is this key to knife carrying legitimacy?

That chorizo does look nice – I might have to branch out…..

Meanwhile I’ve been looking for a legal folding knife to replace my opinel and rather like some of the Swiss army alox series.

Love the descriptions on the website – I feel i may well be the target audience….

“on the go snacks”

“Explore new trails and conquer new markets”

Trolling barstewards!

https://www.victorinox.com/en-GB/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Medium-Pocket-Knives/Swiss-Army-7-Alox/p/0.8150.26

This thread has actually made me rethink stuff based on Scapegoat’s useful input. I was complacent about having locking multitools in vehicles because ‘I’m a non-threatening old fella and no one is going to search me’. Seems that complacency is unjustified.

I have (or had) an ancient Gerber multitool in a tool roll under the locking seat of my motorbike, along with a small adjustable spanner, zip ties and a roll of electrical tape. This combo has been used loads and is ten times more useful than the crappy Triumph OEM tool kit. Also and equally ancient, a Leatherman in the car winter bag with torch, blankets etc.

The trouble is, useful as they have been, the Gerber and Leatherman both have the temerity to incorporate an injury preventing safety feature now deemed to be illegal. So I’ve just removed them. It’s possible to imagine based on Scapegoat’s info, a scenario in an RTA or whatever where they came to the attention of a keen copper and I end up with a criminal record. Not worth it.

First world problems, I’m not losing any sleep over it. I’m just frustrated that to my mind, the only real effect of all this is inconveniencing or criminalising the law abiding.  I can’t imagine many stabby types use £100 multitools or that even if they do, they are going to stop because they’re told it’s a bit naughty.

Maybe the world is safer place because of this but I’m not convinced.

Yep, ‘old man shouts at cloud’ etc. 🙂

Meanwhile I’ve been looking for a legal folding knife

Yes that’s the point many of us have raised, there are options to stay within the law.

@simdondbarnes did you take the table with you onto the moors too? The plate is impressive enough.

I win though.

I have (or had) an ancient Gerber multitool in a tool roll under the locking seat of my motorbike,

So, within the law.

did you take the table with you onto the moors too? The plate is impressive enough

The table is my legs, the plate is titanium for weight saving :-)

Did we all suddenly have catastrophic common sense failure, is there some sort of “STW Page 7” rule, which is about the point in the conversation where we all collectively lose our minds?

Some people don’t see a reason to carry a pocket knife. That’s fine.

Some people think that a pocket knife is a handy thing to have. That’s fine too, the law is (now) very clear.

Some people think they’re Mick Dundee and cannot grok the notion of leaving cutting equipment indoors. That’s less fine.

Hurling around words like “retarded” is what leads to interesting threads being closed.

why anyone could possibly need to carry a knife.

Unless it is necessary for your trade then the word you’re looking for is want not need. Stating you need to carry one just comes across a bit, well, unhinged.

Have we done kitchen knives in campervans yet? 😆

So, within the law.

Well no, it isn’t.  It has handy pliers, bottle openers, screwdrivers and all that, but it also has a small knife blade that locks. Therefore the onus falls on me to prove that I have a good reason to have it. I think I do,  a very good reason, but it isn’t up to me to decide is it? It’s up to the police and courts and as per Scapegoat’s post, it’s far from guaranteed that they would share my view.

Deleted. Double post.

I as the OP, I have, I don’t think ever said I need to carry a knife. I think my original post was basically along the lines of how I didn’t really think that my tomato and cheese habit might get me thrown in gaol with no hope of release. I thought that my little locking opinel would be within the law. Subsequently it has been pointed out (quite forcefully by some and more persuasively by others like scapegoat) that this is not actually the case.

A couple of us have bemoaned the good old days when you could brandish a broadsword with impunity and then I think almost all of us have bowed down to the modern age and looked at getting a small inoffensive legal carry swiss army knife to replace our small inoffensive illegal carry cheese knife of choice.

I agree completely that nobody outside the trades, even the most devoted trailside croissant scoffer (I’ve never actually buttered a croissant on the moor-that post was a joke in case it wasn’t massively obvious) needs a lock knife but its sometimes useful to have a small blade if you are so inclined and like to be prepared.

Phew anyway no need for insults – just really nice cheese!

I just want to hear of anyone on a ride with Drac when he asks if anyone can cut this/food/thing for him, and gets a round ‘Go and f  off’ :lol:

Haribo don’t need sliced.

@blokeuptheroad you have it locked away in your vehicle, not carrying it around for tomato emergencies

What you’ve basically done is describe white male privilege.

Yebbut…… if you go back and have a look at the sentencing guidelines, it’s kinda built into the eventual outcome.

There’s a whole section devoted to categorising the different scenarios and factors around the unlawful possession.  It specifically categorises those with certain associations, previous history, the nature of the carrying (threatening, brandishing, using etc) in an upper tier, and eventually drops down into the lower order of scenarios in which Mr Gordon Goodcitizen simply forgot he had his pruning saw in his overalls when he nipped out for a pint after a heavy day in the Rose Border.  All common sense will tell us that he doesn’t need the same punishment as the Swinley Mandem out tooled up with Zombie Knives and Machetes.

Top of the tree:

Culpability A
Possession of a bladed article
Possession of a highly dangerous weapon*
Offence motivated by, or demonstrating hostility based on any of the following characteristics or presumed characteristics of the victim: religion, race, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity

Bottom of the pile

Culpability D
Possession of weapon falls just short of reasonable excuse

The sentencing is therefore as we would reasonably expect.  Without actually saying it, the law here does indeed favour the “well to be fair I didn’t actually come across an unsliced tomato this week officer, are you telling me I can’t have that with me on the off-chance?”

@blokeuptheroad you have it locked away in your vehicle, not carrying it around for tomato emergencies

I know, but it makes no difference in law. In either case, if the police became aware you’d have to prove lawful excuse. Whilst it seems entirely sensible that a multi tool in a vehicle tool kit would be exempt, it isn’t – if it has a locking blade.  The law in that case is black and white.  If I’m riding the bike and I have the key to access it (the ignition key), it’s in my possession in a public space.

And as @scapegoat explained, from his personal experience, motorists who come to police attention for other reasons, but have a Leatherman (with locking blade) or whatever in their vehicle fall foul of that all the time.  They are automatically charged with possession of a bladed weapon.  The police being too worried about accusations of bias, will leave it to the court to decide if there is lawful excuse. Too big a risk to take.

I know, but it makes no difference in law.

yes it does. It’s locked away in case you need to do some repairs.  Not in your pocket for salad incidents.

It looks like the Leatherman Bond is the UK legal non locking blade version of choice for those that feel they need an EDC at hand at all times for emergency tomato situations and other high stress moments.

And with a name like that who’s not going to get their special agent tactical rocks off when walking around with it in your pocket.

yes it does. It’s locked away in case you need to do some repairs.

To you or the courts? I’d like to see the case law or a quote from the legislation for that? Any kind of citation would be welcome?

I carry my Leatherman Wave+ at work 8hrs a day. I use both knife blades for opening bags, boxes, packaging, cutting tape, stripping the outer insulation off multi core flex. I use the wire stripper and the pliers and the scissors and the bottle opener. The files also see regular use and so do the wire cutters. The interchangeable screwdriver bit also gets lots of use. Both blades lock and I have no idea whether this is legal or not! If I’m off on a big ride I’ll take my Leatherman Rebar, sometimes pliers are handy (for example when a lump of Peak District hit my chainring and bent it like a Pringle. I couldn’t have straightened that out with a multi-tool!  I’ve had one dog-walking incident where the puppy got tangled in brambles and I had to cut the bramble so we could retrieve her and then had to snip her fur to get rid of the bramble. Oh and I once cut a tangled hedgehog loose from some discarded netting. Never, ever had to slice a tomato or a chorizo with a pocket knife though.

why anyone could possibly need to carry a knife.
Unless it is necessary for your trade then the word you’re looking for is want not need. Stating you need to carry one just comes across a bit, well, unhinged.

Well, among any number of situations where I’ve found a folding, legal pocket knife to be a useful thing to have, is cutting zip ties, and the sort of welded thick plastic packaging that things like SD Cards come packed in, and then prove almost impossible to open easily.

I’ve been in that situation, I found the SD card I had in my camera was full, and I hadn’t brought a spare, so I found somewhere that sold them, but the only thing I had to open the package was a very small folding knife on a keyring, which would barely scratch the plastic unless pressed hard, which meant the blade kept trying to close on my fingers. The shop wouldn’t open it for me, ‘for safety reasons’, so it took me bloody ages trying to cut the plastic with the silly little knife without repeatedly putting deep cuts into my fingers.

That can’t happen with the Pilar I carry, because it’s specifically designed to not close on a finger accidentally.
With zip ties, yes, you can use wire cutters or scissors, but honestly, carrying a pair of scissors around in your pocket is an indication of an accident just waiting to happen! Running with scissors, anyone?

Plus, the Pilar isn’t exactly designed to be a stabby thing, it’s completely the wrong shape. It is, however, very good for removing splinters and thorns, one I frequently get from the damaged wooden frames, or bosses, that archery targets are pinned to, and the other from spikey garden shrubs and hedges, and when out walking in the woods and countryside.
I wouldn’t, however, use it to prise the lids off tins – that’s what a screwdriver is for, something I certainly wouldn’t carry around with me!

One of those makes for a vicious and deadly weapon.

I cannot think of an occasion I have needed a knife and there is not one to hand – because all the times I need a knife I am in a house apart from picnics where I would have my SAK

Ah yes of course the shop wouldn’t open it for you, we believe you.

With zip ties, yes, you can use wire cutters or scissors, but honestly, carrying a pair of scissors around in your pocket is an indication of an accident just waiting to happen!

I very rarely cut zip ties, but lift the tongue with a sharp non-knife implement and undo them so they can be reused. You should see my used zip-tie collection, it’s marvellous.

Indeed as in thinking buttering a croissant is essential reason to carry one.

Your wooden spoon however, Im sure you would never leave home without that.

but lift the tongue with a sharp non-knife implement

You mean like a small No1 size flat bladed screwdriver ?.

But something you carry on your person at all times.

Well i’ve been meaning to suggest this for a while.

Worth a separate group buy thread for south Ingerland members maybe?

Tomato Sliced 2.5mm – 1kg

because all the times I need a knife I am in a house 

Long distance cycle touring.? Or do others just go feral and just gnaw on a block of cheese / chorizo / chicken /veg

Infact never mind the Leatherman. The msr camp kitchen  comes with not a locking blade but a fixed blade.

Should I hand my self in now save yous the trouble of reporting me ?

just go feral and just gnaw on a block of cheese / chorizo / chicken /veg

yes

yes

Why though

Because you are actually feral or because you believe you cannot carry an implement for purposes  of making your meals .

I know, but it makes no difference in law.

yes it does. It’s locked away in case you need to do some repairs.

To you or the courts? I’d like to see the case law or a quote from the legislation for that?

I’ll take the silence as there isn’t any. I’m not sure ‘but Drac said it was OK’ would swing it with the cops.

Why though

Because you are actually feral or because you believe you cannot carry an implement for purposes of making your meals .

Partly the first bit and partly the fact that I’ve never felt the need as an adult to carry a knife. Also I don’t go bike packing so any food I carry can easily be eaten by hand. I also like eating by hand too. If I wanted to carry an implement for making meals, a knife wouldn’t be top of the list. I have a small multi-tool in my camelback. It stays in there and has been used on rare occasions.

I’ve never felt the need as an adult to carry a knife.

I have a small multi-tool in my camelback. It stays in there and has been used on rare occasions.

Does it have a knife blade on it? Because if it does, the first statement is untrue is it not?

I very rarely cut zip ties, but lift the tongue with a sharp non-knife implement and undo them so they can be reused. You should see my used zip-tie collection, it’s marvellous.

Same. Such a waste to cut and discard. One of the things I use the wee knife for, thats usually always in my pocket.

I’ve always got an Outlery set in my truck. As well as my other stuff 🤣